Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis. (Read 7402 times)
Life_goes_on
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4772
400kms south of Yobsville, Qld
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #45 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 9:05pm
 
An interesting article.....

Quote:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/24/1061663676588.html

Pollies tell fibs about negative gearing
By Ross Gittins


August 25, 2003

We all know that when Paul Keating got rid of negative gearing in 1985 this proved disastrous for the rental market and he was forced to restore it.

We all know this because the politicians - from John Howard to Simon Crean - keep reminding us of it.

There's just one small problem: it's not true. It's remarkable how bad we are at remembering events - and how easily history can be rewritten by people with an axe to grind.

A negatively geared property investment is one where you borrow such a high proportion of the cost of the property that your interest payments and other expenses exceed the rent you earn. You then deduct this operating loss against taxable income from other sources.

In July 1985 - and as part of a much bigger tax reform package - Treasurer Keating moved to "quarantine" losses from negative gearing by stopping them from being deducted against other income. The US Congress had already done something similar.

But, so we're asked to believe, this caused investment in rental accommodation to dry up. Vacancy rates fell very low and rents shot up. By September 1987 - just over two years later - Mr Keating was forced to admit his error and restore the old rules.

However, Saul Eslake, ANZ's chief economist, has gone back to check this story and can't find it.

His examination of the Real Estate Institute of Australia (REIA) figures for the capital cities shows that rents rose sharply only in Sydney and Perth (and the Bureau of Statistics' figures for dwelling rent don't show a marked increase for any capital).

If the tax change was causing trouble, you'd expect it to be showing up in all cities, not just one or two.

Mr Eslake's conclusion is that rents in Sydney and Perth surged because their rental markets were unusually tight for reasons that had little to do with the tax change.

And this conclusion is supported by an earlier study by Blair Badcock and Marian Browett, geographers at the University of Adelaide.

They say Sydney was the only case that provides support for the claim that the tax change caused problems. "And even here the flow-on effects of the tax changes have to be weighed against the contribution of the general turndown in housing activity in Sydney to the deterioration of the vacancy rate and a real rise in rents," they say.

But the academics remind us of a factor the pollies gloss over: the central role that politics played in the whole affair.

The REIA began campaigning against the move to curtail negative gearing even before it was put into effect. The estate agents predicted that ending negative gearing would have dire consequences for renters, and they really stepped up their claims of disaster in the federal election campaign of July 1987.

They managed to win the support of the Labor governments of NSW, Victoria and Western Australia, and they put the frighteners on Bob Hawke to the point where, in just the last week of the campaign, he agreed to re-examine the issue.

It may be significant that the decision to restore negative gearing came only a little over a month before the stockmarket crash of October 1987. It may be that the preceding boom had drawn investors' attention away from real estate, whereas the bust caused them to flood back.

Be that as it may, it seems clear that when today's politicians tell their porkies about why the abolition of negative gearing was reversed, what they're really saying is: if someone as tough as Keating got beaten by the real-estate agents, why would you expect a wimp like me to take them on?

Well, I think it's all in the timing. The time to move against negative gearing will be when the looming over-supply has finally caught up with the rental apartment market. When the boom has busted, prices have collapsed, vacancy rates are way up and rents have fallen even further.

That's when the property developers' get-rich-quick gulls will be discovering they're down the mine to the tune of several tens of thousands of dollars - and will be looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

That's when people like me will be pointing out that the Howard Government did much to induce them to make their foolish investments by thinking it was great policy to take negative gearing and combine it with a 50 per cent discount on capital gains tax.

Here's something to remember the next time you hear Peter Costello scoring a cheap point by noting the huge revenue gain the NSW Government has made from the property boom thanks to its stamp duty on conveyances.

About 30 per cent of the growth in conveyancing duty has effectively been diverted to other state governments because of the way the Commonwealth Grants Commission's formula for dividing the GST revenue between the states penalises NSW and Victoria.

Like all federal politicians from those states, Mr Costello believes his ambitions are best served by continuing the rip-off of his fellow state taxpayers.

Ross Gittins is the Herald's Economics Editor.

Back to top
 

"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.
 
IP Logged
 
It_is_the_Darkness
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4000
in a ReTardis
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #46 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 11:55pm
 
Gee, I go to work and I miss out on all the good stuff. Some of you really know your stuff. Cool


Back to top
 

SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #47 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 12:02am
 
Pollies tell fibs about negative gearing
By Ross Gittins

August 25, 2003 ...

Yawn.

Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #48 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 12:06am
 
Hey Jas .. from what I've read .. seems to me a few people THINK they know their stuff.

Gets a tad boring after a while .. hence the above yawn.

Regards

Lisa
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
aikmann4
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2093
canberra
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #49 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 12:30am
 
Yeah, shut up.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 29706
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #50 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 10:31pm
 
Those REIA dudes should be put up against a wall and shot. They are the ones that lobbied the Government to triple the first home buyers scam and hence reinflate the property bubble.

They are not interested in first home buyers. All they care about is their agents commission and having lots of rental joints on their books.

Negative gearing should be abolished or at the most limited to brand new dwellings only. The tax system should favour first home buyers and NOT speculators recycling the same old junk properties.

Back to top
 

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
IP Logged
 
gizmo_2655
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #51 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 8:05am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 4th, 2010 at 10:31pm:
Those REIA dudes should be put up against a wall and shot. They are the ones that lobbied the Government to triple the first home buyers scam and hence reinflate the property bubble.

They are not interested in first home buyers. All they care about is their agents commission and having lots of rental joints on their books.

Negative gearing should be abolished or at the most limited to brand new dwellings only. The tax system should favour first home buyers and NOT speculators recycling the same old junk properties.



Nice attempt at a recovery nails....
When losing, just return to your original idea, and pretend ALL the response that prove you wrong never happened.....
Back to top
 

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 29706
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #52 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 9:56am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 5th, 2010 at 8:05am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 4th, 2010 at 10:31pm:
Those REIA dudes should be put up against a wall and shot. They are the ones that lobbied the Government to triple the first home buyers scam and hence reinflate the property bubble.

They are not interested in first home buyers. All they care about is their agents commission and having lots of rental joints on their books.

Negative gearing should be abolished or at the most limited to brand new dwellings only. The tax system should favour first home buyers and NOT speculators recycling the same old junk properties.



Nice attempt at a recovery nails....
When losing, just return to your original idea, and pretend ALL the response that prove you wrong never happened.....


Where have I lost ??

Where are all of these abundant low cost rental joints as a result of negative gearing ??

You keep telling us that if it wasn't for negative gearing there would be a shortage of rental accommodation !

So where are they ?

It's just a whole lot of crap. The policies were designed by scammers to feed the scammers Sad
Back to top
 

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #53 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:08am
 
I think this thread should be in "Finance and Economics".

I agree that the over-attractive conditions for negative gearing should've been nipped in the bud years ago. If/when the bubble bursts, it will not only be investors that find themselves out in the cold, it will also be genuine homebuyers who want nothing more than a roof over their head - that being said, the latter often over-extend themselves with their McMansions.

I would also blame Rudd for relaxing foreign investment laws for residential property.
The recent influx of Chinese investors into the property market may soley be due to their new found wealth, but either way, the relaxing of these laws was unnecessary and could only be detrimental to Australian homebuyers in the long run.

We've had 3 consecutive months of decline in the housing market already with relatively unusually low interest rates. When the RBA lifts the cash rate later today, and when the greedy banks raise their rates even further, you could only imagine the decline continuing.




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #54 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:17am
 
I agree that the over-attractive conditions for negative gearing should've been nipped in the bud years ago ????

Huh???

You obviously have never negatively geared a property in your life.
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #55 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:00pm
 
Quote:
You obviously have never negatively geared a property in your life.


No, but I looked into very seriously and went so far as to personally check out properties to buy.
Ultimately, I decided that I'd prefer to be debt free before considering another property.
7 or 8 yrs ago, I could've even positively geared quite a few properties that I'd looked at and sold any one of them for triple the price now, but that's 20/20 hindsight.
I'm not saying that it would be so easy to gear a property now, because the risks are enormous for the average punter, but I am saying that it was probably too easy to do it back then and this has caused housing prices to spiral out of control - for the time being.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #56 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:14pm
 
Amadd .. negative gearing is A HIGH RISK VENTURE OK???

I've been doing it for 10 yrs now.

Don't believe the stories you hear .. about how people make money etc .. it's all BS!

Oh and the property in question .. will now be lived in .. it won't be ever be sold .. because of the CGT factor.

Over all .. it's been a wasted exercise (even though the property has doubled in value over the past decade because it's in a waterside suburb).

Believe you me .. stay away from negative gearing .. and the myth that you can make $$$.

Regards

Lisa

Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
aussiefree2ride
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3538
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #57 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:33pm
 
Excuse me, but without negative gearing encouraging more investment in rental properties, wouldn`t rents be higher?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #58 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 1:25pm
 
Quote:
Amadd .. negative gearing is A HIGH RISK VENTURE OK???

Believe you me .. stay away from negative gearing .. and the myth that you can make $$$.


Well, anything that you do or don't do with your money has some risk attached. If you bought property for investment 10yrs ago, I'd expect that you've done at least OK out of it.
I'm absolutely sure that I would've done very well from gearing 7 or 8 yrs ago, but by deciding against it, there was also the advantage of tax free mortgage interest saving and far less headaches.
No, I wouldn't consider (Australian residential) property for investment nowadays. I've got no ambitions of being in debt again anytime soon, but being that my needs aren't too extravagant, I have to do something with my spare cash besides leaving it in the bank. Would you like a new car, a diamond ring or something?

Atm, I'm happy to stay away from high risk investments for the most part and just look for options which will give me modest gains on my savings.
..for my needs are simple - namaste  Wink



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 29706
Gender: male
Re: Soaring Rents Fuel The Poverty Crisis.
Reply #59 - Oct 5th, 2010 at 1:42pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:14pm:
Amadd .. negative gearing is A HIGH RISK VENTURE OK???

I've been doing it for 10 yrs now.

Don't believe the stories you hear .. about how people make money etc .. it's all BS!

Oh and the property in question .. will now be lived in .. it won't be ever be sold .. because of the CGT factor.

Over all .. it's been a wasted exercise (even though the property has doubled in value over the past decade because it's in a waterside suburb).

Believe you me .. stay away from negative gearing .. and the myth that you can make $$$.

Regards

Lisa



I have no doubt that your own account is true.

But then if there is so much risk in negative gearing then don't you think that this is another reason why the Government should abolish it and instead give tax concessions to first home owners ?

Back to top
 

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print