Quote:So Annie, do you agree with Abu, or do you reject my reality and replace it with your own?
I think you're both playing with semantics on the courtship issue.
Quote:Yet Islam supports both of these things and you speak out in support of Islam? Do you understand now why Abu is so reluctant to engage in 'open and frank' discussion on topics like slavery in Islam, rape within marriage, sex with slaves (who according to Abu are not sex slaves just because of the coincidence that they are slaves and you can have sex with them), etc.
Do you support every single aspect of democracy? You're condemning me for thinking critically about Islam and being able to point out the good as well as the bad. Whether you see it or not, Islam has a lot of beauty.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there are many hadith that advocate the freeing of slaves and the religious rewards that doing so brings. Likewise with the Quran. One of the prophet's friends was an ex-slave called Bilal who was purchased and freed by the man who would later become the first caliph. If you're interested I can share the story here - it's beautiful.
Quote:So tell me now Annie, what would you think of a law that specifically permits a man to marry a girl before she even reaches puberty, or a law that legalises rape within marriage? Could you bring yourself to ask Abu about these things, in an open and frank manner?
A woman has to consent to a marriage, FD. She can't be forced, but even if she could I've already made it clear that I think both forced marriages and rape in any form are wrong.
Incidentally, rape is punishable by death in Islam. As it should be. And yes, I could ask Abu about anything pertaining to Islam and I know he'd answer me with respect and sincerity because he knows I'm genuinely after information.
Quote:After all, what is a right, other than a legally protected priviledge? Are you suggesting that because then men may marry and rape little girls, but it is officially 'frowned upon', they don't actually have the right to do it?
Islam doesn't protect the rights of rapists, FD.
Quote:Do you think that all that is required to protect the rights of children is to give them legal recourse if their parents try to marry them off to a dirty old pedophile? Because that is the extent of the protection offered to young girls in a 'proper' Islamic society.
I think that if the girls parents were practicing Islam properly this wouldn't be an issue. A woman in Islam should be sexually and mentally mature before marriage is permitted.
Quote:In order to make Islam seem attractive, he must replace genuine Aussie culture with the dregs of our society. A good demonstration is how he pretends that giving women freedom to choose for themselves means nothing more than western men taking advantage of that freedom.
And in order for you to make Islam and Muslims seem barbaric and backward, you must drag up and rehash the same points ad nauseam.
The Quran says that a woman is the equal of a man, that a husband must treat his wife with love and kindness. In one particularly strong hadith, Muhammad said "The best among you are those that are the best to their wives."
Old men marrying young girls isn't exclusive to Islam. There's nothing in our law stopping a 16yr old girl from marrying a 70yr old man. Is that disgusting and perverted? Yes. Do I like it? No. Will I shun democracy because it allows it to happen? Of course not.
You are wrong on so many issues. For starters, the hadith you misquoted actually says the women who complain of being beaten are not the best among you:
"Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab: Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon_him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said:
And looking at the text of the Qur'an as a whole, there is no way that women are considered the equal of men.
, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is most high." - Qur'an 4:34
"Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and
. Allah is Mighty, Wise." - Qur'an 2:228