Quote:Abuse means to use something in an incorrect manner, usually so it becomes damaged...
So how badly do you have to beat your wife for her to become damaged, according to Islam?
Quote:No, but contrary to you, I am not attempting to derive my own backyard fatwa from it either.
This is true. You are going to great lengths to avoid offering your own opinion.
Quote:If you had even a fraction of the knowledge about Islam as you really should have to be commenting the way you are, then you'd know.
How much knowlege must one have before commenting?
Quote:Nothing gives me more right to comment
You seem to be contradicting your other statement, quoted above. Can you clarify? If we were living under Islamic law, how would we be punished for speaking out of turn?
Quote:Bruising does not necessitate abusing.
Abu are you saying men are allowed to bruise their wives?
Quote:But there's nothing even in the hadith to indicate he allowed it.
Yes there is. I can't see any other rational interpretation. They complained about being beaten. Muhammed took no action. Even you are claiming it was 'justified'.
Quote:The woman was committing a crime against him also by slandering him, and so it seems they were considered to be "fair and square".
Again you contradict yourself. If he didn't allow it, why also claim it was fair?
Quote:In fact the manner in which she was brought to the Prophet (pbuh) indicated she was going to be vindicated for her ordeal. But when it was discovered she was also guilty, then she lost her right to complain.
So Islam forbids wife beating, but only if the wife has never done anything wrong?
Quote:Yes it is, in certain circumstances.
What circumstances allow wife beating?
Quote:So you're saying it's permitted, yet it's abhorrent to any sane minded individual?
I think he is implying that Islam is abhorrent to any sane person.
Quote:The Quran clearly states that a man must live with a woman in kindness - beating a woman until she's 'green' can hardly be called kindness in anyone's book.
And yet even Abu the great deflector now admits that Islam allows wie beating under 'appropriate' circumstances. Do you have any idea what circumstances?
Quote:Abu hasn't backpedalled once.
What do you call it when someone claims Islam forbids wife beating, then starts hinting at circumstances where it is permitted?
Quote:He clarifies what he meant because you keep misunderstanding him.
Yes that is a nice change from refusing to answer any questions.
Quote:Just so others are aware. The Islamic definition of "consent" is different. A virgins silence is her consent.
So a young girl can end up married without ever actually agreeing to it?
Quote:Some people said, "If a man, by playing a trick, presents two false witnesses before the judge to testify that he has married a matron with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage, and the husband is sure that he has never married her (before), then such a marriage will be considered as a legal one and he may live with her as husband." (Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 86, Number 100)
Can someone explain this please? Is it saying a man may forge his way into marriage?
Quote:Hitting need not be abusive. Parents often hit their children to discipline them, and it's usually not abusive, even when it causes bruising sometimes.
What about wives abu? When is that permitted? Does the wife have the same status as a child?
Quote:Assuming it was even abuse, which I don't think is established anyway.
If hitting your wife until she is 'green' is not abuse, what is?
Quote:Regardless, you've made a pretty poor attempt at supporting your claims the prophet (pbuh) permitted beating women until they're green, let alone on whether or not the source itself is authentic.
But abu, you yourself admitted that it is allowed.
Quote:Which Muslims here claim that?
Abu you have made the toothstick claim yourself. Were you attempting to decieve us by implying that was the extent of permitted beating when you knew otherwise?
Quote:Maybe Muslims should stop claiming there is equality between the sexes in Islam? At the very least you should provide others with your faulty definition of equality.
I agree. It is hard to imagin how Abu might justify the claim of equality.
Quote:This is just garbage. Are you insinuating dowries are payment for use of genitals??? What kind of ridiculous claim is this?
Abu, are you claiming those texts to be garbage?
Forum
Pages: 
