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Question: What is more important for the goverment?



« Last Modified by: John S on: Sep 18th, 2010 at 9:05am »

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John S
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what the most important thing for the goverment
Sep 18th, 2010 at 9:05am
 
We had some people saying that the economy is the most important thing the Goverment should worry about.

I think if you didn't have society we would have any economy.

What do other people think is most important?
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 9:38am
 


Hi riverina.jack

The more I  read of Ross gittens insights into WHY we have an economy and the reason it was started. I think we have lost our way.

The 'economy'  is measured -and means- different things . however IF we had stayed true and valued our social responsibilties the economy would be measured in the peoples happiness as a nation /society. But  our individual wealth is more important to us than community importance... also from Ross Gittens latest blog. I find this interesting but  sad more so...

SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2010
Getting richer as we mess up our world

I guess you've heard the good news: the devastation of the Christchurch earthquake will be a godsend to New Zealand's gross domestic product, giving it an almighty and much-needed boost.

So maybe it's a pity earthquakes don't happen more often. Perhaps we could do the Kiwis a favour and send our air force bombers over there to use a few cities for target practice.

If you think this sounds stupid, you're right. To anyone in their right mind, an earthquake that destroys many buildings, roads, bridges and vehicles - and disrupts many people's lives - can't possibly be a good thing.

But it will boost gross domestic product. GDP measures market production (and the income that production generates). So as the South Islanders spend a couple of billion repairing and rebuilding their main city, much extra production will occur and many additional jobs will be created.

But what about the loss of all the valuable assets destroyed by the quake - doesn't that count? Short answer: no. GDP is a sum that's all pluses and no minuses. It counts the benefits, but ignores the costs.

It doesn't count the destruction caused by natural disasters, nor the depletion of renewable and non-renewable resources. Production involves the emission of many forms of pollution, but this cost too is ignored.

If the clearing of land to build a town involves destroying the habitat of animals, perhaps leading to their extinction, the cost of the clearing and the building counts as a plus, but the loss of habitat or species doesn't count as a minus.

So, does that make GDP a giant con job? Yes and no. Economists will tell you GDP is an accurate measure of what it's intended to measure: market production and national income; it's not, and was never intended to be, a measure of the nation's well-being.

But this is disingenuous. Economists don't understand it's possible to know things without that knowledge being reflected in our behaviour. And though all economists know GDP is not a measure of well-being, they still treat it as though it is, obsessing over it, ignoring other indicators and encouraging us to do the same.

If GDP is so defective as a measure of well-being or social progress, why doesn't someone try to fix it? Well, many people have tried, but they've had little success. Trouble is, many of the factors affecting our well-being can't be measured in dollars, so they can't be included in the sum that is GDP.

http://rossgittins.blogspot.com/2010/09/getting-richer-as-we-mess-up-our-world.html
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 9:54am
 
hi veg hope you are well

Smiley
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:06am
 
Without a secure and stable economy, you cant have a stable and secure society.

When the economy crumbles, society follows....bit like trying to grow flowers without any soil.

Roll Eyes
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:13am
 
mellie wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:06am:
Without a secure and stable economy, you cant have a stable and secure society.

When the economy crumbles, society follows....bit like trying to grow flowers without any soil.

And the reverse isn't also true?

The economy is a product of society, not the other way around.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:15am
 
Society assumes temporal precedence over economy, not the other way around. A strong economy is logically predicated upon a society that contains a sufficient quality of human capital in order to allow it to be strong. A dysfunctional and decadent society, or one that is filled with cretinous imbeciles and deleterious, ineffective social mores and policies cannot sustain a strong economy for very long (see: future of Western Civilization).
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:32am
 
mellie wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:06am:
Without a secure and stable economy, you cant have a stable and secure society.

When the economy crumbles, society follows....bit like trying to grow flowers without any soil.

Roll Eyes



If you didn't have a stable and secure society working paying taxes spending money where your economy be then.

It has only been about the last 15 years that people think the economy is important.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 11:13am
 
Economy and society Jack, they are equally important.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:35pm
 
Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 11:13am:
Economy and society Jack, they are equally important.



So would you put one over the other?

i still think that if you didn't have a stable and secure socity you would'd have a encomy

Where would the goverment get their money to have a stable and secure society?
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #9 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:47pm
 
It think it goes hand in hand. It has from the beginning of time. Money has not always been the currency of the day.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #10 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:52pm
 
Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:47pm:
It think it goes hand in hand. It has from the beginning of time. Money has not always been the currency of the day.



So you are saying money is not be all to end all?
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #11 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:58pm
 
Society, the people. Take the Principality of Bhutan for instance. The society is built on gross national happiness. It would be nice if places like that can keep their strong culture. I bet they'd lose a lot of their happiness if they started to worry about a raging economy.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #12 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:59pm
 
John S wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:52pm:
Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:47pm:
It think it goes hand in hand. It has from the beginning of time. Money has not always been the currency of the day.



So you are saying money is not be all to end all?



Possably.
Maybe what I am trying to say is a bit like a family christmas dinner.
In our family everyone brings a plate. We as family members are contributing economically and socially.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #13 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 3:10pm
 
How well can a society fair living off the smell of an oil rag when the cost of living starts overwhelming us as a "society"?

We can all numb our senses, smoke some pot, and sit in a circle singing 'Kumbaya' I guess.

It's a bit hard thinking about 'society', when you have debt collectors knocking at your door and threatening to turn off your electricity supply.

This and have elderly people perishing in their houses because they cant afford to eat properly, or turn on their air-conditioners.

My mother manages an aged and community services org, this and is concerned for elderly people under this 'social' welfare unfriendly government.


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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 3:12pm
 
Without society millie there is no economy. But it is not as simple as that either.

The libs didn't give a stuff about the aged either millie!  So get off your high horse.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #15 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm
 
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #16 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:25pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.



Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds...  I know, I know...and if all we need is love, then why is it we are fast becoming a nation of hate-mongers under a socialist government supposedly more "socially" conscious?

Integral energy want a little bit more than our love I think....

Wink

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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #17 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:29pm
 
Quote:
then why is it we are fast becoming a nation of hate-mongers under a socialist government supposedly more "socially" conscious?


Are we?  Where is your evidence to support that, or did you just make that up as well?

Smiley

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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #18 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:33pm
 
aikmann4 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 10:15am:
Society assumes temporal precedence over economy, not the other way around. A strong economy is logically predicated upon a society that contains a sufficient quality of human capital in order to allow it to be strong. A dysfunctional and decadent society, or one that is filled with cretinous imbeciles and deleterious, ineffective social mores and policies cannot sustain a strong economy for very long (see: future of Western Civilization).



Would you then say that China (an "economy" which Australia relies on so much) fits that description?

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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #19 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:40pm
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:29pm:
Quote:
then why is it we are fast becoming a nation of hate-mongers under a socialist government supposedly more "socially" conscious?


Are we?  Where is your evidence to support that, or did you just make that up as well?






Smiley...No as a society we are becoming more insular... (into-ourselves)... introspective...self-serving even ...well anyway, you should read Human Zoo by Desmond Morris, published in 1969.
.....  How urbanisation has pushed our neighbours further away, how on the whole we as a species have become more motivated by self-orientated personal endeavours as opposed to social embrace and inclusion.

..Sorry, no need to read the book if you aren't a big reader, just read the review, you will get the gist.

Well, this book came before the phenomena was coined.

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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #20 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:48pm
 
No, Mellie, you said "we are fast becoming a nation of hate-mongers " and I asked you for your evidence.  All you can offer is some book written in 1969 which according to you does not allude to us 'fast becoming a nation of hate-mongers.'

Again, you just made that up.

Smiley
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #21 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:54pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.


Just pointing out that some countries don't go along with the capitalist culture of the west. They have other ideas of what makes good, stable and happy people. Not everyone lives for the almighty dollar, and neither should they.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #22 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:56pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.


Just pointing out that some countries don't go along with the capitalist culture of the west. They have other ideas of what makes good, stable and happy people. Not everyone lives for the almighty dollar, and neither should they.



and so speaks a poor person. it's always the same. the poor say money isnt important - while shovelling down as much welfare as they can.  And how about you list some of those happy non-socialist countries for us?
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #23 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:00pm
 
In Buddhist Bhutan, happiness counts
By Vishal Arora
Saturday, March 20, 2010
THIMPHU, BHUTAN The Buddhist kingdom of Bhutan is the only nation that puts happiness at the core of public policy. But its thrust on a "gross national happiness"(GNH) index is not just a warm-and-fuzzy inheritance from Buddhism; it is integral to the nation's cultural and political security.
Bhutan's fourth king, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, coined the phrase GNH in 1972 on the belief that people's happiness did not depend on the nation's economic wealth, said Tshoki Zangmo, information officer at the Center for Bhutan Studies.
It was, Zangmo said, "a notion of wholeness that is embedded in Bhutan's authentic Buddhist culture." Ever since, all manner of government policies have centered on GNH in this landlocked Himalayan country -- about half the size of Indiana -- sandwiched between India to the south and China to the north.
In 2006, the king abdicated the throne in favor of his son, Jigme Khesar Namgyal Wangchuck, who in his first address as monarch said his main responsibility would be focusing on GNH.
Two years later, when Bhutan held its first democratic elections after centuries of absolute monarchy rule, GNH was the main agenda of the ruling, royalist Bhutan Peace and Prosperity Party.
GNH indicators -- as opposed to more traditional measures like a nation's gross domestic product based on economic activity -- recognizes nine components of happiness: psychological well-being, ecology, health, education, culture, living standards, time use, community vitality and good governance.
It's all tracked twice a year through a survey of 1,300 people conducted by Zangmo's agency.
Many of the GNH indicators find their roots in Buddhism. Psychological well-being, for example, includes measures of meditation, prayer, nonviolence and reincarnation. The country's GNH secretary, Karma Tshiteem, said Buddhism is key to people's happiness.
"Happiness is about one's outlook on life, and Buddhist values help people appreciate and focus on what they have rather than what they do not," he said. "Values such as compassion and respect foster greater social interaction." In addition, belief in karma -- "a force that unifies past and future through the present" -- also figures into GNH, Tshiteem said. Buddhism also had a "tremendous influence" in creating Bhutan's unique culture and traditions, which he said are "the most important source of our identity." The Western notion of separation of church and state is, well, foreign to Bhutan. Here, the government and clergy operate from Buddhist monasteries, such as Home and Culture Minister Minjur Dorji's office in the palatial, whitewashed Tashichho Dzong monastery in the nation's capital.
Bhutan is perhaps the only country where culture is part of the interior ministry's portfolio. Dorji said preservation of culture is crucial for the nation's security, and Bhutanese culture, in turn, "is rooted in Buddhism." One tangible way of preserving culture is a national dress code in schools and government buildings. Men wear the gho, a knee-length robe tied at the waist by a cloth belt, and women wear the kira, an ankle-length dress clipped at one shoulder and tied at the waist.
Bhutan also mandates use of the national language, Dzongkha, and has strict architectural standards throughout the country.
Government officials say it's not just about looking nice in public, but fostering a physical sense of identity to distinguish Bhutan from its larger neighbors.

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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #24 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:10pm
 
I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

=====================

Excusie, I quote and supply a link to a Ross Gittins article.  An economist that has won awards  - and a well respected analysis of the economy. His latest book the Happy economist has a lot of merit !

If your   just out to belittle people. . Save your ink. I dont think you have the qualifications  to judge me.  Kiss




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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #25 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:11pm
 
Quote:
Bhutan's fourth king, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, coined the phrase GNH in 1972 on the belief that people's happiness did not depend on the nation's economic wealth


Which might carry some weight if Bhutan was actually POOR - which it is not.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #26 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:12pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:56pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.


Just pointing out that some countries don't go along with the capitalist culture of the west. They have other ideas of what makes good, stable and happy people. Not everyone lives for the almighty dollar, and neither should they.



and so speaks a poor person. it's always the same. the poor say money isnt important - while shovelling down as much welfare as they can.  And how about you list some of those happy non-socialist countries for us?



Why when someone disagrees with your point of view do they all of a sudden become poor and on social security benefits?

The working class are the new poor, with 10% of the citizen's in the USA having the entirety of the wealth. Who made them rich? the ordinary, average working class person. Besides, wealth is usually a matter of circumstances, not good planning.

All things in moderation, especially money.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #27 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:14pm
 
Quote:
I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

=====================

Excusie, I quote and supply a link to a Ross Gittins article.  An economist that has won awards  - and a well respected analysis of the economy. His latest book the Happy economist has a lot of merit !

If your   just out to belittle people. . Save your ink. I dont think you have the qualifications  to judge me.  Kiss





LOL  Their qualifications  would not have to be very high


Grin
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Maybe we could improve society and the economy with mo
Reply #28 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:47pm
 
The Rotten Systems, and is there an Alterative?

The so called Civilizations since mankind came out of the cave, or maybe came down from the trees have hardly changed over thousands of years, because we are now as brutal to each other as they were in the stone ages; the only difference is, that thousands of years ago, men fought each other with sticks and stones, and now destructive weapons are used to the point that the planet on which we live could be completely destroyed in matters of minutes, if the potent weapons, designed by very clever people, put into the hands of not so clever, so called leaders, be they Kings, Dictators or just Politicians, and none of the latter display any scruples or courage to speak up against what should be spoken up against.

But in the so called Democracy, are the Politicians only to be blamed?

If a Politician speaks honestly, if that is possible, will he/she be re-elected at the next election; most likely not, and that is the weakness of a Democracy, the citizens in a Democracy cannot accept the truth, which may go against the voters interests, be it economically or otherwise.

How could Democracy be improved so that it becomes a better system of Government than all the other systems that preceded it?

Considering the previous systems, Be they Oligarchies, Royalties, Plutocracies  or Communism.

The first three are only for the benefit of the few, based on either birth or other means, while the last would be the best, yet it completely collapsed after less than a hundred years, but why did Communism collapse so quickly?

The Capitalist always harp on the idea of being the human nature, and greed will always come out on top, when it comes to benefit humanity.

For Communism to work, the human mind has to broaden enormously, because if people think that Communism is a system made in heaven, they are very wrong, because it is obvious that if nobody is prepared to put the effort he/she is capable of, and everybody has no desire to limit their consumption, the system cannot function.

But in any system, the main problem is, that there are always people trying to usurp the leading positions, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are capable of being the leaders and are not just in the leading positions for their own benefit or boost their big ego.

As most of the aspiring leaders have the ability to fool the common people, by first crawling to them, and when they are in positions of power they will quickly turn around and often misuse the power vested in them.

The people in power also have the great ability of surrounding themselves with underlings who will lick the boots of their leaders, and empower the leader to overcome any attempt to challenge their leadership

Many male leaders are often also controlled by their wives or female partners and are rather weak in reality, but very cunning to outwit their opponents, but in the long run, the society with weak or unfair leaders always suffers.

In a Marriage, where a partner with less ability gains control through having a thicker skin, in the end both partners will not achieve their full potential, and this will also apply in every other Organization up to the leadership in Governments.

That does not mean that the more skillful partner in a marriage should debase his/her partner, but for the benefit of both and the community at large, fools should not be leaders, but use their skills and talents for the benefit of a family, a group or Government, and the so called Indians are just as valuable to society as are the Chiefs.

Never, never should the leaders in society be left in total position of power, but should  always be challenged  to explain and justify their actions.

Unfortunately many individuals which are prepared to challenge the leaders or the system are conveniently accused of “Rocking the Boat” or called “Whistleblowers” and many times they pay a high price for their actions.

Also the leaders of any society should not be put on a pedestal and idolized like super heroes, and when the people in power talk about serving the Community, they should really show their true colours and admit that they are not in those positions for their own ego and like to have the nose in the trough.

How many families become career politicians; now if to be a politician is such a hard and demanding task, a parent would hardly encourage their offspring to follow in their

footsteps.

One way how Democratic performance could be greatly improved would be is , instead of having the Senate and Legislative Councils, abolish them and set up Committees of interested citizens to perform the task of keeping a watch over the Governments, and they should not be paid, except being remunerated for any expenses in performing their tasks.

There could also be some risk that this committees set up to keep the “bastards honest” do not become in to the same mould of the Australian Democrats, which although now completely obliterated, are a huge burden on the taxpayers, as there are many quite young ex MP’s enjoying the benefits of a generous parliamentary pension, with all the attached perks.

In the capitalist system, much emphasis is placed on the value of capital for the benefit of society, but is capital really so important for the function of society?

It is also emphasized that money has to work hard for the benefit of the owner of the money; but money does not work, only peop
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John S
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #29 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:51pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:56pm:
and so speaks a poor person. it's always the same. the poor say money isnt important - while shovelling down as much welfare as they can.  And how about you list some of those happy non-socialist countries for us?



Where would the goverment get the money to pay for people on welfare if you didn't have a stable and secure society.

Money doesn't grow on trees you know.
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longweekend58
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #30 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 6:46pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:12pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:56pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:54pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:20pm:
I dont think Ive ever read such hippie-based nonsense in many a year! You might like to think that 'all you need is love', but money is what pays the way. This has been an eye-poppingly stupid collection of wishy-washy loser-based talk that tries to imagine some utopian ideal where an economy is not important - as if such a thing is important. And to the complete idiot who thinks Bhutan is a 'happiness-based economy' then I reserve the best of my mocking laughter.

I cant beleive some of the rubbish you people have sprouted. I knew vegy was dumb but I actually thought some of her comments had the occasional merit. but today her comments were a low point on an exceptionally low measuring scale.

I dont know what you people need most - a brain or a dollar. My guess is you have neither.


Just pointing out that some countries don't go along with the capitalist culture of the west. They have other ideas of what makes good, stable and happy people. Not everyone lives for the almighty dollar, and neither should they.



and so speaks a poor person. it's always the same. the poor say money isnt important - while shovelling down as much welfare as they can.  And how about you list some of those happy non-socialist countries for us?



Why when someone disagrees with your point of view do they all of a sudden become poor and on social security benefits?

The working class are the new poor, with 10% of the citizen's in the USA having the entirety of the wealth. Who made them rich? the ordinary, average working class person. Besides, wealth is usually a matter of circumstances, not good planning.

All things in moderation, especially money.


poor person thinking - pure and simple. This is a classic:

Quote:
Besides, wealth is usually a matter of circumstances, not good planning.


Wealth is actually almost ALWAYS from risk, hard work and enterprise. it is almost NEVER accidental.
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #31 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 6:52pm
 
John S wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 5:51pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18th, 2010 at 4:56pm:
and so speaks a poor person. it's always the same. the poor say money isnt important - while shovelling down as much welfare as they can.  And how about you list some of those happy non-socialist countries for us?



Where would the goverment get the money to pay for people on welfare if you didn't have a stable and secure society.

Money doesn't grow on trees you know.


Stay tuned for "Jillya and the Greens stalk", By Mellie ...because I love a happy ending too with Rudds 6 lodge chickens laying golden eggs for us to prop up our economy.

And we all starved to death happy ever after....~The End~
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Re: what the most important thing for the goverment
Reply #32 - Sep 19th, 2010 at 10:02am
 
There should be a 'neither' option. Because I don't believe the government should be in the business of managing our lives or our trade with one another. I'm not of the old-school, early-mid 20th century European belief that everything needs to be managed by a central authority of a handful of elites. They tried that and it failed. Whereas you look at somewhere like Hong Kong where the British Empire basically sat back and drank tea, as a result Hong Kong became one of the most prosperous and fastest growing places in the world. So neither the economy or society should be important to the government. National defense and basic rule of law are all they needs to concern themselves with. Apart from that, the rest of us can manage things. We don't need big brother looking over our shoulders and breathing down our necks.
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