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Christians haven't read their own Bible (Read 15943 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #75 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 2:05pm
 
Nail.
Quote:
So why did they burn witches at the stake and torture people to death for over 600 years ?


They had lots of good reasons which all came from the Bible.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #76 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 3:58pm
 
aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
locutius wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:03pm:
Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm:
We should burn all religious book including the Bible.
Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy


That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you.

You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox.





I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme.



I don`t think so.


Yes it does.....It's originally from one of the Greek philosphers...
But that's no surprise.....most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Sappho
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #77 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 4:30pm
 
Are we all satisfied now that humans will rally violently for a cause be it in the name of a theology, philosophy or plain ol' human nature? You should be. There is enough evidence in this thread and others for you to draw this very sensible and factual conclusion.

As dear ol' Time would say... it is the inherent fear of the 'other' and their potential influence, given enough slack, as well as our need for power over our own and the 'other', that drives us.



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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #78 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 9:56pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 3:58pm:
aussiefree2ride wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
locutius wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 1:03pm:
Soren wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 8:09pm:
We should burn all religious book including the Bible.
Get rid of the nonsense in a big bonfire - yayyyyyyyyyyy


That inherent even-handedeness, to your great surprise and discomforty (I hope), is a very Christian trait in you.

You are more Christian in your values and outlook than you realise. That you are completely unaware of if it is called a paradox.





I'd say that inherent even-handedness pre-exists Christianity by a long shot. And you last post suggests that it railed against it in the extreme.



I don`t think so.


Yes it does.....It's originally from one of the Greek philosphers...
But that's no surprise.....most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well....


No linear connection though,  so no relevance.
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freediver
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #79 - Sep 10th, 2010 at 10:37pm
 
Quote:
most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well


Isn't that just a reflection of who had the most history books written about them?
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #80 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:38pm
 
No!
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freediver
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #81 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm
 
So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #82 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm:
So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?


Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.
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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #83 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:05pm
 
Our Western, humanitarian system originated in the ethics of Christianity.  There was more than enough crime comitted against humanity in the name of Christianity, and we are constantly reminded of that fact.  We don`t often hear about the positive aspects of our heritage though.
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aussiefree2ride
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #84 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:06pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:03pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm:
So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?


Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.


Why not?
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freediver
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #85 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 5:28pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:03pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm:
So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?


Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.


So we should not teach children about moral values in a time of war? Isn't it then that they are most important?

Quote:
Our Western, humanitarian system originated in the ethics of Christianity.  There was more than enough crime comitted against humanity in the name of Christianity, and we are constantly reminded of that fact.  We don`t often hear about the positive aspects of our heritage though.


It is always interesting to watch extremist atheists blame religion for everything, proclaim a completely irreligious spring for all morals, then demand they get their hands on other people's children so they can re-educate them and stamp out all opposing doctrines.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #86 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 5:34pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 6:03pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 5:58pm:
So it is equally well documented that other cultures from the time did not have these moral standards?


Morals are something you can teach a child in a classroom. They shouldn't come from some old book full of examples of human atrocities.



Morals are something a parent should be teaching their child at home...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #87 - Sep 15th, 2010 at 1:21am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 9th, 2010 at 4:38pm:
Before bagging other religions and burning other Bibles, Christians should read their own Bible properly and objectively to see how much religious intolerance that their own Bible promotes. For example:-


Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
- - YOU ARE MAKING A FALSE AND ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION FROM THAT BIBLE TEXT

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
- - YOU ARE MAKING A FALSE AND ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION FROM THAT BIBLE TEXT

Kill False Prophets
- - TRUE

+++
thelastnail,

The inference, the implication you make [in the OT verses you quoted], would lead a reasonable person to believe that the God of Israel was commanding the ancient Hebrews to be xenophobes, and / or homicidal maniacs.
My determination is that, if what you knew about the God of Israel and OT law was dynamite, it wouldn't blow your brains out.

Some PROOF, from bible texts...
What the Hebrew Torah [law] said about strangers ['unbelievers']...

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49 [these verses clearly speak of Hebrews becoming bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...


Strangers ['unbelievers'] were permitted to live among the ancient Hebrews, but [because strangers were regarded as 'unclean' before God] strangers were not permitted to participate in many of the [regarded as holy] Hebrew religious ceremonies.

+++
Those laws and judgements [which you quoted] applied to the Hebrews people.
i.e.
A people who had entered into an agreement [covenant] with their God.

Hebrews could leave their nation, and be 'cut off' from the congregation, i.e. become gentiles.
But individual Hebrews were not permitted to be wilful law breakers, and at the same time live among the covenant people.
Even strangers were bound by many of the societal laws that the Hebrews had to follow.
And, stranger who lived among the Hebrews, and tried to entice any Hebrew to worship another God would be killed.
But strangers who lived among the Hebrews, were [clearly] not killed, because they themselves, were 'unbelievers'.


The obligations of the covenant people...

'...And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do....'
Exodus 19:5-8

Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23  And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
24  But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.



The God of Israel also commanded the Hebrew people to kill the inhabitants of the land [they were given, in possession, by their God].
To cleanse the land of their [the inhabitants] wickedness.
Harsh?
Yes.

Wicked?
The bible reveals that among other things, the original inhabitants of the land roasted their own children, in fires, in sacrifice to their false gods.

Leviticus 18:21
Leviticus 20:1-5
Deuteronomy 12:28-31

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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It_is_the_Darkness
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #88 - Sep 15th, 2010 at 4:07am
 
And as Jesus looked down from upon the Cross
unto his Jewish People who had sacrificed him
he said
"Wait till me little brother Hitler gets yas!!"

and so it was, 2000 years later
a little Jew (not really a Catholic ...but then again Nostrodamus was a French Jew - Catholic) called Hitler (who really did look like a Jew)
...got revenge.

Long ago, a little French Christian called Mohommed said "Kill my People!"
...what goes around  Roll Eyes
will come around ...maybe thats why France was testing Nukes in French-Polynesia  Wink


------------------------------------------------------------------

Catholic Priests: Tend to be celibate but wear really cool clothes.
Protestan Priests: Tend to root around a lot, but dress poorly.
Orthodox Priests: Wear cool clothes and root around.
Pagans: well they're the poor f'ukers who are buried in the ground (south) and hold up the others of the Cross (West,East,North).

...I'm so glad I'm Pagan ad live in a Culturally Backwards Australia Wink

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Christianity - was a Religious 'reflection' or de-script-ion of Europe from out of the Middle-East.
Islam was a Religious 'reflection' of Africa, as is Israel of Asia.

You could almost say that each Holy Book was a 'licence' to conquer that area or state of being on behalf of the Middle-East. Also, it was aslo an expression of 'learning' from that part of the world. The Moslems learned much about the 'Land, Mathematics and even Slavery' from the Africans (and even the other Blacks - India).

Sadly, all the very Medically orientated Druids, Witches and others around Europe that 'lived' the true European way were supressed and corrupted by Religion that emerged out of the Middle-East. From then on, things became twisted and suddenly, Europe became 'Medi-Eval' rather than Medi-Good.
Nowadays, Europe is finding a sense of cultural vibrancy as Religion falls away back to the Middle-East like 3 blind mice falling down a drain.
Medicine seems to be the one Industry that is taking European nations forward in leaps and bounds as the World's best and progressive.

After the Moslems do to the French what the Germans did to the Jews, will the Italians put their faith in Religion in the face of a combined Israel/Islam wrath or will they go down like a soccer player and call a sickie for the Medical Industry to save em ?

Eventually there will be more 'positive' Religions that emerge from Namerica, Oceania and Samerica that set a better example of 'co-existence' and cohesion on behalf of the Middle-East than what the Religions of Africa, Europe and Asia did (because they went 'across' the grain in carpentry Wink).
But then again - Africa, Europe and Asia tend to have more Musical cohesion for that 'other' region of the world in the midst of the New Worlds. Wink

----------------------------------------------------------
As I said to all 'Christian' Nurses when working in the Hospitals
"Here - you can do the bloody paperwork!!!"
Grin
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SUCKING ON MY TITTIES, LIKE I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Christians haven't read their own Bible
Reply #89 - Sep 15th, 2010 at 8:25am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 10th, 2010 at 10:37pm:
Quote:
most of our modern morals and ethics come from the Greeks as well


Isn't that just a reflection of who had the most history books written about them?


No, not really.....The reason the Greek culture has had so many books written about it is because it was such a huge influence on European culture....

You must also bear in mind that the Greek Philosophers where influenced by other cultures as well.....It's just the Greeks were pretty much the first ones to write it down....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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