This is awful.

I think they will shoot him.

Quote:


http://www.theage.com.au/national/remorseful-rush-pleads-for-his-life-in-bali-co...

if they do that they are going to create a lot of ill-feeling among Australians who abhor capital punishment.
When it comes to stuff like this, that is one thing that Australians have a long memory about, and although largely unspoken, it will reach from the community level right up through the government ranks.
Australia holds a humanitarian position regarding punishments for crime.
It is a cornerstone of Australian culture.

you don't actually know if that was the case.
and the severity of the crimes in each case are vastly different as well.
if amrozi had done that in Australia he would not have been executed.

Actually, people in the situation of Rush in particular would be particularly useful to Australia. The Australian government should have been saying to the Indonesians for years now that Indonesia should not be having to foot the bill for Australians in their prisons where the crime is alleged to have arisen in Australia (eg drug importation). In those cases, where an Indonesian sentence was imposed, the Australian government should have invited the return of those prisoners to Australia to serve their sentences, where they could also act as ongoing "anti drug ambassadors", as Scott Rush now wants to be.

It would be a very good ongoing deterrent to others who might be like minded in Australia.

Aussie wrote on Aug 27^th, 2010 at 9:43pm:


To you he is a dumb mule.
To others, me included, he was complicit in a drug running scenario which would have seen more drugs deliberately brought into the country and to blight further lives.

How was he dumb?
He didn't know it was wrong?
He didn't see the SIX signs between the airport entry and the point he was arrested which declare "DEATH PENALTY FOR DRUG TRAFFIKING"?

Ask the families of drug addicts and drug deaths if this is a victimless crime?

"to south east Asian nations, Australia is a push-over"

Australian culture has at its foundation an humanitarian, progressive attitude to punishment for crime. It comes from our history and our cultural memory of the injustice of systems in Britain which were like the ones you are describing are still today.
It is a proud and honourable attitude to have as a country. Death penalties bring down the country which exercises them. It is psychologically damaging to the national psyche to do and allow those sorts of inhumane penalties.
Don't worry about south east Asian nations. Most of them know Australia and Australians are not "push overs", as many of them have witnessed as our allies and our opponents.
It is a brave thing to do not to impose the death penalty even for crimes where death has been occasioned.
Most other countries in the world have not risen to that stage yet, and need to make some serious psychological changes to do that.
Australia already has.

Executing one drug mule is not going to solve the problem. That is a simplistic, very unsophisticated approach to the problem.
Get to the REAL suppliers. You don't hear much about them do you?
LOOK INTO IT, and stop being a simpleton.

It is nothing to do with "one of us". No one gets the death penalty in Australia any more, and it was a long hard fight to achieve that.
It stands as a monument of our culture and it will not be changed back again. It does not matter how bad is the crime in Australia, the nation is not brought down to the same level by officially killing someone.

We are a humanitarian people. Most countries are not.

LOOK IT UP IN THE DICTIONARY - HUMANITARIAN;
and learn.

July 29 2010
My daughter, I desire that you make known to My people in the Americas that I, Jesus, desire they participate in bringing about a number of underground shelters for the safety of those who are to be the remnant of salvation.  Soon, very soon, the world will be plunged into the black apostasy that will engulf the world.  There will be war and through the availability and use of nuclear power, the annihilation of many parts of the world and its inhabitants will be brought about.  God does not to desire you to fear.  He desires your response and your swift action to bring about this work.

My daughter, I desire you make this known throughout the world.  The world's powers are in the grasp of a great unrest and the preparation of war is now a reality in union with antichrist.  He is about the create a great abomination.  The world as you know it will become changed and disfigured.  World powers are at work, drawing upon the forces of evil to cause destruction.  All transactions through banks and all government services throughout the world will be make powerless.  The leaders of all nations will be rendered helpless to intervene.  Food will be limited.  Hunger and death will be everywhere.  Great calamities and disasters will befall the world. The waters will be poisoned. 

             Make preparation now.  The world is about to fall into the depths of its own sin.  All that you have will be seized.  Your money will be worthless.  There will be death all around you.  God's mercy will be there if people turn to Me but it grieves Me that their hearts will not choose to partake in My Mercy.  Rather they will prefer to squirm in conforming to man's way.  I am He who is Alpha and Omega for ever and ever.  How I still yearn for people to respond to Me rather than die.  My Sacred Heart will draw all those who desire to respond for the purpose of ensuring the continuance of the work of salvation.  The time is here when all men will be tempted to think only of self.  The sea will cover much land and many people will be lost because they choose to remain blind to the call of My Mother and their denial of Truth.  My daughter, you will receive much mockery from those who do not want to respond.  Soon they will cry out and seek you out to help them but it will be too late for many.  The waters of death have moved and moved quickly.  Time has been set for the world's destruction.  Its perversion is limitless.  My daughter, be at peace.  Make known all I tell you.  Those who can recognize Truth will respond.  I desire you to guide My people through My working in you.  You are in the time of the 'opening of the door and the closing of the gate' - the great tribulation.

Fear not, My daughter, I am with you.  In your heart let My guidance abide.

My  blessings be upon you.  Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Encore: -

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 6:38am:

He was pretty silly. Last time he appealed he got the death penalty.
He should have shut his mouth and taken his punishment.

Deborahmac09 wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 12:29pm:



I agree, I would see all of them executed.

Quote:


"Pushers". I love that term. It brings up images of shady characters approaching you from a dark alley and saying stuff like "'ere luv, best you be trying some of this" when the reality is that the only "pushers" - i.e. the ones who urge people to try drugs - are invariably a person's friends or friends of friends and not actually somebody within the drug trade.

athos wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 1:32pm:



You are correct he is a young man.

You seem to however missed out the bit where he is a convicted drugs traffiker.

They haven't just picked a young man off the street here you know....

He walked past SIX signs at Dengpasar Airport which state "DEATH PENALTY FOR DRUG TRAFFIKING"

Now is he registered blind?

Does the punishment for child abusers in Australia fit their crime? What about rapists?

I've heard so many people on this forum whining about immigrants and tourists respecting our laws when coming to Australia - it's hypocritical to suggest something different for us when we visit other countries.

I hope Rush's death sentence is overturned, but it's ridiculous to argue that he's a victim here.

The punishment in this case certainly does not fit the crime, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily care about this guy. Annie is correct that he is scum, but he is also idiotic scum; the Indonenesians are actually doing us a favour eliminating him from our gene pool.

So can life sentences. Like being locked up for the rest of your life and being raped every few weeks and then dying in your cell an innocent man is exactly a great thing to happen to you either. Asking for a perfect system of dispensing justice simply cannot be done.

Deborahmac09 wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 12:29pm:



That's not it..
Initially only the 2 ring leaders got the DP.. The other 7 (including Rush) were given life sentences.

Four of them appealed and got their sentences reduced to 20 yrs..
Then Scott Rush appealed too..

There is apparently a law in Indonesia, along the lines of :if you appeal and lose...your sentence may be increased.

Rush appealed, lost...the Prosecutors wanted to give him a Life sentence, but for some reason, the Judge imposed the DP....

except we don't have the death penalty.
Once they're gone, even if new evidence came to light that showed the person was innocent, too late.
e.g. Lindy Chamberlain.
That's exactly why you should not have a death sentence.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 2:43pm:



Well with Lindy Chamberlain.....I still don't believe it was dingo....

It 'may' not have been Lindy.....But it sure wasn't a dingo or a feral dog....

Quote:


It happens more often (getting an increased sentence) than what you'd think, especially for those who go against legal advice and still appeal their sentence.

Quote:

It doesn't matter whether you believe it was a dingo. That's the problem with people speculating about things like that. In the Lindy Chamberlain case nearly the whole damn country said that. How can you get a fair trial when that sort of sentiment is plastered all over the country.
The woman was proved to be INNOCENT!
Someone, or more than a few people actually did know what happened, and subsequently new evidence came to light. If Australia had a death penalty at that time, it would have been too late.
Politicians can't even get government right, and you want to trust them with a death penalty??  Talk about a hung parliament! Good.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 3:01pm:



The most technologically advanced country in the world. The country that also has more Nobel Prize winners than every other country added together has RE-INTRODUCED the death penalty and it enjoys widespread support in many states.

So your argument is completely flawed.

it is not enlightened to have a death penalty. It is a retrograde step. It doesn't matter whether a country is wealthy or poor, technologically advanced or not to be unenlightened.
Nazi Germany was technologically advanced too, and it had a death penalty, and it was used against innocent people. Millions of them.

People who are humanitarian do not support death penalties.

taking drugs comes from a mindset. That issue is not being addressed and as far as I know never has.

I do not take drugs, never have, and don't feel the need to. But that appears to be seriously out of fashion in this country.
Sorry about that. They can stick their drugs up their bums. (Hey, don't they actually do that anyway?)

If this country is serious about doing something about drugs it really need to look at why people take them, and try to do something about that.

In many countries, especially conservative ones such as in Asia, if you take drugs you are looked upon as a complete failure. Why is it not like that in Australia and other western countries? What messages are being circulated in these countries to lead people to think that this is smart and a good thing to do?

I had no trouble explaining to my children why drugs are a bad idea. I just said that you do not put anything into your mouth that other people want you to, because what they really just want is your money. They may seem friendly and all smiles, but they want your money, and they don't care if what they give you hurts you.
Drugs are a con job. And I just kept saying it, regularly, from when they were old enough to understand, and pointing out that just because something is shown on a television screen or in a music video clip doesn't mean it isn't a con job.
They want your money; they don't care about you.
You have to fight the propaganda from when children are very young, because it is being fed to them from all sides, including their indoctrinated "friends".

Quote:


Nor do prison sentences. We lock a lot of prisoners up every year and yet, crime, or rather, behavior deemed criminal in practically every civilized society on the face of the earth, remains rampant. Saying that just because the death penalty doesn't "stop crime" is a good reason why it shouldn't be practiced is the same as saying that because incarceration or any kind of punishment doesn't stop crime, therefore, nobody should be punished for any transgression. That doesn't make any sense.

I don't know why you equate punishment via execution with a lack of "civilization". Civilization has nothing to do with that. Civilization is about order, not the espousal of touchy-feely squeamish progressive values.

you can't possibly be that dense, so you must be sh*t stiring.
Custodial sentences are only given in extreme cases, literally to prevent people from re committing offences. In that lumpen sense, they do actually stop one offender when nothing else appears to work. People who get prison sentences usually have a pretty long history of crime. You appear to have a mindset that those nasty, horrible people in charge are just going around locking everyone in prison.

The point is, apparently it has to be said again, and again, and again - is that death penalties are final and should evidence come to light that the person was innocent -WHICH IT DOES E.G. LINDY CHAMBERLAIN - then it is too late, the person is gone; death penalty can be abused by a political system, it does nothing to address the real reasons for crime, it isn't humanitarian, and it damages the national psyche by dragging the whole system down to a bestial killing mentality.

You can't be humanitarian and support a death penalty, it doesn't matter how much money you've got or how advanced are the technological advancements in your kitchen.

Quote:


Actually it does. The "real reason" for crimes warranting of punishment as severe as death is often psychopathy. The death penalty eliminates the cause of psychopathy at its root; by extinguishing the particular genetic mutations that give rise to it from the gene pool.

Quote:


And what if they could invent a simple blood test to test for psychopathy?

Let's say that test could be done at birth.

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 4:12pm:



Wouldn't that STILL be a death penalty???.....Killing a baby for a crime it MIGHT commit is less heinous than killing an adult for a crime he/she DID commit????

Maybe a 'dna' test of the parents.....and a ban on having children IF they have the 'psychopathy' gene or blood type???

Even then....some group will STILL complain...

double post, delete this

Quote:


Nothing should be done? Wouldn't it be better in this case to treat people for what they do rather than what they could do?

in fact, it would be better not to get the disease at all, rather than have to knock it all out once you get it.
That is called disease prevention, not symptom control. That's what's wrong with our western medical system, and our legal system, and our political system, and our social system, and our family systems.
Big problem.
Death penalties have not solved them, nor even slowed them.

That still doesn't mean that things can't be done. I have absolutely no problem with the provision of financial incentives for abortions. An 'abortion bonus' is more sensible than a 'baby bonus' for a lot of people.

Not enough viagra.

While what he did was stupid, I don't believe he deserves to die. I am strongly opposed to the death penalty. I don't care what crime you have committed, no one deserves to be executed for their crimes.

That said, I believe that the AFP (Australian Federal Police) should take most of the blame for this. They could have stopped the Bali 9 before they left Australia. Instead, they allowed them to head over to a country which has a hard line against drugs, knowing full well what they would likely face. The AFP sent Rush to his death, and they must bear the consequences.

I don't believe Rush's appeal will be successful. I believe he will die. The Indonesians hate drug dealers and users, but they are happy to give a murderer or a rapist a few short years in prison.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 3:23pm:

Bring back the death penalty in Australia ! How a society can call itself enlightened and not have the death penaly is beyond me.

He is unfortunately someone who has made a very bad judgement call. The lure of course for criminal activity is the disproportional reward for the smallest amount of effort...if he had made it he would probably been laughing and partying for weeks or months and then planning the next load of killer poo to come in. Mule is not something I would opt for the death penalty here for generally. Certainly for the ringleaders.

He's young and silly and probably a history criminal delinquent. He took that life choice to another country with a different set of rules. So be it.

I understand what you are say Mozz but my point of view is that an enlightened society is not the one that abolishes the dealth penalty but the one that accepts that

1) there are individuals that are so dangerous that they should never be released

2) there are individuals that have no remorse or desire to alter their attitude and therefore offer considerable risk to the community upon release or are career and multiple offenders.

3) individuals that rape and murder ruin entire lives and I have no problem expressing that I think these serious crimes should have the death penalty as an option. In the case of crimes against children it should be mandatory.

I don't actually have much sympathy for drug pushing vermin nor for the users that steal my or my families hard earned belongings.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 27^th, 2010 at 10:38pm:


I bet it has reduced the number of idiot young Australians volunteering to be drug mules out of Asia. And his execution will make it all new and fresh in the eyes of these morons. Problem solved?? No. Problem reduced?? I recken so.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 27^th, 2010 at 10:38pm:


I didn't fight for it. In fact if I had been old enough II would have fought against it. I think it could be won back as well but we need to grow up a bit first. We confused being suckers for being enlightened.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 27^th, 2010 at 10:38pm:


What's your definition of humanitarian?

BTW don't you vote Liberal?? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else.

shampain socialist wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 3:12pm:


Explain why you say it is not enlightened to have the death penalty for heinous crime, unrepentant and habitual criminals and the irreversibly insane. I will argue that enlightenment is the opposite.

Well the reason people argue against it Locutious is that your argument relies on being the greatest good, for the greatest number, which also includes killing the terminally ill, the severely brain damaged, or severely physically disabled amongst others, as killing these people will deliver cost benefits at the very least.
There are arguments in favour of such ideas, but not well enough developed to ever be a serious question in my lifetime.

Fair enough Gizmo, there are also those who do not care about the greater good argument, and just want to kill for vengeance sake, which is also understandable, but a personal decision whether or not you wish to  choose that reason.

When people are repeat offenders, obviously killing them after they are convicted of a first offense precludes other victims falling prey to them, and I do not think anybody argues that is not the case, but most people prefer permanent jail sentences for such high risk offenders to killing them, it is just where we are as a society.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 3:28pm:


As gizmo correctly points out it does not say that.

Certainly the terminally ill, that have contributed to this country should be offered whatever comforts them including euthinasia. And the severly physically disabled may very well still contribute to society. Stephen Hawking. Also these are people that have not abused, violated and murdered others. In a real sense they are victims.

I is not just about utilitarian issue although I will say that ultilitarian motives are NOT irrevevent. But it is also about what works. What can stop the cycle? What can be done to shrink the cycle.

I do actually have some sympathy to some criminals as they are just passing on the abuse they suffered...many of them were once doe eyed trusting good natured little children who were abused and damaged. That is why I say that torture serves no enlightened purpose.

So when reading about a grown man inflicting prolonged and deliberate harm and finally death on a small innocent little body. My gut instinct is to say visit the same if not more on to that piece of filth.

But being enlightened I can say the best that can be done is to tell them that we are sorry that it has come to this, that their own damaged lives (not always) bought them to this point but we need to end this particular thread of events. So long. BANG. And let the Bulldozer cover the pit.

Then be glad of heart for making children's live just a little bit more safe. Take a nap.

I think that we could probably do more to promote safety by creating a more caring and inclusive society.
Look at those dogs/trash/scum, whatever label you wish to apply to them, who raped aussie girls because of their upbringing, and the lack of respect for women who do not follow the code of conduct laid down as being appropriate by the people who raised them.
Should we kill them, or the people that raised them to think that they could self justify their behaviour?

The trouble with sanctioning state killings is knowing where to stop.

what about pedos?, I mean they are the worst of the worst in my book, often far more deserving of death than some kid who gets led astray by the wrong crowd and impulsively kills from fear or stupidity?
Surely we should be allowed to kill pedos?
Plus some rapist/sex offenders are off the chart sickos, we should get rid of them too, just because a value judgement comes into it should not mean we ignore these worst of the worst, should it?

Quote:


Exactly. Our first responsibility as a society should be to protect our innocents. As long as the death penalty is carried out in an humane manner, I support it completely for serial rapists, pedophiles and in some cases, murder.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 4:29pm:



Since the lefty soft c0ck judges and magistrates have a real aversion to even locking up serious crimminal offenders, even if we had the DP, it would never get used anyway.

Maybe if these judges were held accountable for their decisions and had to reapply for their jobs every few years, this would change.

Australia is a safe haven for any serious criminal, just ask that american who killed his wife in Townsville 2 years ago, got 18 months gaol and a guarantee that QLD would not help the US prosecutors  if he faced the DP when he went back home.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Aug 28^th, 2010 at 2:05pm:


yeah, but our laws are fair.
Indonesia? corruption plus.
i know this to be true.
i've met one of the police chiefs.
anything for an extra buck.
i'll bet you cannot name 5 Indo top achievers in the world scene.
prolly not even one.
anyway, our politics here flies in the face of theirs.
they'd overrun us tomorrow given the chance.
victim, no.
desperate, yes.
another fact, one out of 3 ppl i've met in australia over the last 45yrs is a pot smoker.
that includes pollies, lawyers, doctors, artists, actors, musos, blue and white collars.
our laws are hypocritical.
the politics between us and these indos is tenuous at best.
j.

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 11:29am:


I've got to agree with that, in part.

Though I'd use that as a reason to push for an overhaul in sentencing, which would allow us to avoid what I believe to be the folly of capital punishment.

It's expensive. It doesn't stop those crimes in question. It creates further victims.

(by the way, howdy folks).

djrbfm wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 1:44pm:


Krakatoa!

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 1:57pm:



Certainly in the United States (which would be most comparable to uor own system).

Granted, much of the cost comes from inefficiencies within the system, but these stem from processes which I don't think any of us would want to see removed (or made more "cost efficient" in the manner we generally tend to).

I should highlight though, that my opposition of the DP is primarily based on those factors outside of cost.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 2:05pm:


I've heard of multiple appeals, yes, but never that many (where nothing new is brought to trial)...?

It would also be difficult to establish what is deemed valid grounds for an appeal - a process in itself which delays execution and increases costs - however, this is surely something that must remain.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 2:15pm:


Aye, some have sat on death row for ridiculously long periods of time.

Incidentally, Wikipedia has some links to additional resources concerning the process involved with the DP and subsequent appeals.

Quote:


I don't care about execution with humanity. I'd be in favour of gladitorial combat for convicted felons and public executions again.

aikmann4 wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 2:56pm:



Absolutely...put the baddest of the bad on an island, last man standing wins his freedom. 
Of course, if he's THAT bad, he'll be back in the clink in no time.

But yeah, this 'humane' execution bizzo is just garbage.  Just kill the fker...they're not on death row for being great guys.

muso wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 5:40pm:


And 'some of them aren't 'spurred on by anything'...in some cases there is NO chemical or enivronmental reasons for what they do....

With some of the pedophiles, they are just evil bastards.....

scott rush - oh boy, what an unfortunate surname............

i really don't care what he or the other eight did.
THEY ARE OURS.
each Australian, no matter what color, creed, or disposition, is worth 10 Indonesians.
and that's any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
these ppl politically are our worse enemies.
look past what these poor souls have done and into the politics in this region.
WAKE UP.
they are ours, like it or not.
and yet we turn our backs on them.
it our shame, not theirs.
THERE'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR EMPLOYMENT SYSTEM HERE
IF THESE MISGUIDED YOUNGSTERS HAVE TO RESORT TO THIS TO MAKE MONEY.
J.

djrbfm wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 11:31pm:


"THERE'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR EMPLOYMENT SYSTEM HERE
IF THESE MISGUIDED YOUNGSTERS HAVE TO RESORT TO THIS TO MAKE MONEY."

No, Scott Rush and his group are low life crimials. They only have themselves to blame for the position they`re now in.

Is he dead yet?