Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Should Religion Be Exempt From Law? (Read 2535 times)
____
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male
Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:07am
 
Religious agencies seek gay adoption bill exemption



The New South Wales Cabinet will consider exempting two adoption agencies from a plan to allow gay couples to adopt.

Independent MP Clover Moore introduced a bill in June that seeks to legalise adoption for gay couples.

But Anglicare has written to MPs urging them to vote against the bill and is threatening to withdraw its adoption services if the laws are introduced.

Community Services Minister Linda Burney says Cabinet will this week discuss amending the bill so Anglicare and Catholic Agency, Centacare, can refuse gay couples adoption rights.

"Their argument - and I respect their argument - is that it is an anomaly to them; it's not part of what their faith can, or believes in, or can cope with," she said.

Ms Burney says the agencies have a right to voice their views but it will come down to a conscience vote in Parliament.

"Anglicare and Centacare not only are adoption agencies, they also work very closely and are important partners in our fostering endeavours in NSW," she said.

"I think the exemption is sensible and I think it's important that it's there."

Anglicare is one of the three accredited non-government adoption agencies in the state.

Its chief executive Peter Kell wrote to MPs outlining 11 reasons why the bill should be rejected, including that children need the opportunity to have both a mother and a father.

He says adoption is not a gay rights issue but needs to be carried out in the interests of the child.

Mr Kell says MPs should take a conservative approach when it comes to a conscience vote on the issue.

"Our understanding of how families are best constructed is that children need the opportunity to have both a mother and a father," he said.

"Men and women complement each other and the optimal care for children really consists of being in a family for both a mother and a father."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/08/2976698.htm?section=justin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #1 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:16am
 
My own view is that I don't think it's a natural environment for a kid to be adopted into. Most kids who are up for adoption have gone through enough already without having to cope with with two gay mothers or fathers.

I would oppose such a bill except where the child involved is family and has nowhere else to go.
Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
perceptions_now
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 11694
Perth  WA
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #2 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:21am
 
Quote:
Greens_Win2k10
Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?


No!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
adelcrow
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20133
everywhere
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #3 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:25am
 
As long as a child has a family who loves and supports them then it doesn't matter if their adoptive parents are gay or straight.
The church has no place telling people what they can and cant do..we have moved on from the dark ages.
Religions can advise believers on life the universe and everything but as far as laying down the law to the greater population...its none of their business   Smiley
Back to top
 

Go the Bunnies
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #4 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:18am
 
He says adoption is not a gay rights issue but needs to be carried out in the interests of the child.


Are you suggesting that this is dark ages stuff?  Are you suggesting that if a church representative say something sensible then it must be ignored because the church should have no voice in society? 


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47066
At my desk.
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #5 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 11:58am
 
Catholic hospitals are allowed to refuse to do abortions. I don't see how this is any different.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #6 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 12:23pm
 
It is nothing more than religious people explaining that they are not able to consider applications objectively.
Because of the tenets of their particular belief systems, they are required to filter all ideas through the subjective process of how those ideas fit with the ideological positions of their faith.

If you wanted to ban subjective thinking, very few people would be allowed to run anything,, so whilst I normally jump all over religion as a dumb choice, at least they are being honest enough to warn of their prejudices beforehand, and if these agencies are given permission to operate as religious organisations, then we would hardly expect them to behave like secular ones.

This is the same reason as I do not think we should have religious schools, they cannot separate their religious beliefs from their actions, to expect them to is counter intuitive.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
locutius
Gold Member
*****
Offline


You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #7 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 2:35pm
 
muso wrote on Aug 8th, 2010 at 11:16am:
My own view is that I don't think it's a natural environment for a kid to be adopted into. Most kids who are up for adoption have gone through enough already without having to cope with with two gay mothers or fathers.

I would oppose such a bill except where the child involved is family and has nowhere else to go.


This, is word for word my exact view on this subject.

This probably my single value judgement about the gay life style and it is based on concern for the social environment of children. Consenting adults can do as they please.
Back to top
 

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39432
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #8 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 3:18pm
 

no, religion is not exempt from the law.

likewise, the law cannot force a voluntary organisation to do what that organistaion is opposed to.
the organisation can close it's doors and many people will be at a loss

I am totally against homos having kids
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #9 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?


What a sad and sorry state of affairs society has arrived at. Sodomisers are today questioning whether religious adherents should be exempt from law.

Do you people now realise the spiralling descent you've fallen into? You gave these 'people' rights to commit their filth and now they're dictating to you what you can and can't believe/do.

soren,

Quote:
Are you suggesting that this is dark ages stuff?  Are you suggesting that if a church representative say something sensible then it must be ignored because the church should have no voice in society?


You're a fool aren't you? You don't seem to realise that you are the one who fights tooth and nail for this set of circumstances to arise, with all your "Enlightened Judeo-Christian values" nonsense. You are the kind of self-defeating idiot who has led your society into this predicament, and sprintcyclist comes not far behind you. The two of you deserve to be adopted out to a gay couple, honestly!!
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #10 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 9:16pm
 
locutius,

Quote:
This probably my single value judgement about the gay life style and it is based on concern for the social environment of children. Consenting adults can do as they please.


Learn to take the good with the bad, or in this case really the bad with the bad. You wanna give sodomisers rights, then realise they're going to take it all the way, until they have the right to teach your kids in school the best way to break their friend's anal virginity...
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Hlysnan
Senior Member
****
Offline


Riht, Fr[ch275]od[ch333]m,
Wærscipe

Posts: 449
Burwood
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #11 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 9:17pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 9:16pm:
locutius,

Quote:
This probably my single value judgement about the gay life style and it is based on concern for the social environment of children. Consenting adults can do as they please.


Learn to take the good with the bad, or in this case really the bad with the bad. You wanna give sodomisers rights, then realise they're going to take it all the way, until they have the right to teach your kids in school the best way to break their friend's anal virginity...


This is hardly different from what occurs in schools now. I'm sure at one point anal sex was discussed during "Health" in my high school.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
what_katy_did
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 148
Melbourne
Gender: female
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #12 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 10:56pm
 
Anglicare were already taken to court over refusing to assess a gay couple as foster carer applicants - and they had their asses kicked. 

Guess they didn't learn from that.

The state funds these welfare arms of churches to provide services to ALL members of the community in a non-discriminatory manner.  If they can't provide that service, they shouldn't recieve the funding... pretty simple to me.
Back to top
 

"Only two thing are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former..."    Albert Einstein
kate_did_what  
IP Logged
 
____
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #13 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 6:59am
 
Gay mum launches action after candidate's remark



A mother in a lesbian relationship has lodged an anti-discrimination complaint after Family First Senate candidate Wendy Francis equated same-sex couples raising children with child abuse.

Ms Francis provoked outrage by publishing the statement: "Children in homosexual relationships are subject to emotional abuse, legitimising gay marriage is like legalising child abuse."

The comment was made on the Queensland candidate's Twitter feed, but there is dispute about whether she personally wrote the sentence in question.

Ms Francis said when she saw the amount of responses the message was getting, and the distress it was causing people, she took it down.

But despite the abusive and threatening phone calls she received Ms Francis last night took her claims further, likening what she calls this new "parentless" generation to the Stolen Generations.

"What I did say is that I believe that the most optimum situation for a child is to have a father and a mother," she told ABC Radio's PM program.

"What I was actually saying was that we don't know yet what this social experiment is going to result with.

"What I was saying is, under normal circumstances, if we were to do a social experiment on our children we would count that as emotional abuse."

Ms Francis says she is not homophobic, only that she "just does not agree with kids being brought up with a gay couple as surrogate parents".

Kelly Pilgrim-Byrne from the Australian Coalition for Equality says the comments are homophobic and uneducated and she has referred the statement made on Twitter to Queensland's Anti-Discrimination Commission.

She says the statement was hurtful and she felt like it was a personal attack on her family.

"I really want people like Wendy Francis in high-profile positions to think more carefully before they make outlandish statements that actually affect real people," Ms Pilgrim-Byrne said.

"Family First say they're about families, but actually when it's broken down what they're really about is only the families that fit their narrow definition of what a family is.

"There are many other family types in Australia and we all need protection."

Ms Pilgrim-Byrne says credible research shows children raised by same-sex couples have the same levels of emotional, intellectual, social and sexual adjustment as their peers.

"The real danger to my child, and other children raised by same-sex couples, is from the bigotry and hatred stirred up by people like Wendy Francis," Ms Pilgrim-Byrne said.

She says a public apology from Ms Francis is necessary to begin to undo the damage caused.

Ms Pilgrim-Byrne says she has only lodged a complaint in Queensland on her behalf but is aware of anti-discrimination complaints being lodged in other states.

The Anti-Discrimination Commission of Queensland would not confirm if Ms Francis was under investigation, citing confidentiality.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/10/2979275.htm
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
____
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Should Religion Be Exempt From Law?
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 7:00am
 
Catholics divided over Pell's criticism of Greens


A division has emerged in the Roman Catholic Church over whether or not Christians should vote for the Greens.

The Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, warned Catholic voters on the weekend to be wary of the Greens, describing them as "sweet camouflaged poison".

But other Catholic leaders disagree. They say it does not reflect well on the Church when a man of Cardinal Pell's position uses that kind of language.

The stoush between the Greens and the Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) started late last week when the ACL accused the party of refusing the scrutiny of Christian voters.

All major and minor parties were sent a questionnaire from the lobby group but the Greens refused to respond to 18 out of the 24 questions.

The ACL's managing director, Jim Wallace, says it was dishonest of the Greens to ignore the questions.

"Even the Sex Party answered honestly the questions - I don't agree with their positions, but at least they were honest enough to actually put their replies forward and respond today whereas the Greens weren't," he said.

"I don't support the Sex Party but I certainly don't support either a party that doesn't act honestly before the electorate."

The Greens say all their policies are clearly stated on their website.

But Cardinal Pell's weekend newspaper column slammed the Greens' so-called Stalinist roots.

He said the Greens were anti-Christian and opposed to the notion of family

"One wing of the Greens are like watermelons - green outside and red inside - a number were Stalinists supporting Soviet oppression," he said.

"We all accept the necessity of a healthy environment but Green policies are impractical and expensive which will not help the poor.

"For those who value our present way of life, the Greens are sweet camouflaged poison."

Mr Wallace agrees with the Archbishop of Sydney.

"I think that what he said there is simply illustrated by the fact that they've shown so much deception in the way that they've avoided showing their hands to Christians on a whole range of issues, such as euthanasia, abortion, prayer in Parliament, funding of schools, marriage, surrogacy... a whole range of issues," he said.

'Unfortunate language'

But Father Frank Brennan from the Public Policy Institute at the Australian Catholic University was not impressed with the article.

"I was surprised by the tenor of the remarks - the Christian lobby, of course, is a self-appointed group who, as they describe themselves, are as a lobby and they invoke how they would see the Christian gospels to be lived out in the community at large," he said.

"Cardinal Pell, of course, is in a different class. He's one of the respected leaders, a key bishop of the Australian Catholic church.

"I'm a member of the Catholic Church - most Australian Catholic bishops, of course, haven't used the sort of language that Cardinal Pell has used.

"I think it's unfortunate language. I don't think there's any need to label the Greens as being 'sweet camouflaged poison' or 'thoroughly anti-Christian'.

"I know some members of the Green Party, some of whom I think are thoroughly Christian and the idea that they're 'sweet camouflaged poison', I think that sort of language during an election campaign from a respected church leader, I don't think it does any of us any good, least of all our church."

Father Brennan says some Christians like the idea of a third party having the balance of power in the Senate instead of the government of the day controlling both houses.

He has suggested voters look for politicians of good character.

"Character is something more than religious faith, definitely those of us who are Christian would say that those who don't have religious faith, we would hope that there are other ways in which they could exhibit strong character," he said.

"But equally, it's got to be said, but not even Christians can claim that simply because they have faith, that they have good, strong and robust character."

Father Brennan says in future, if the Christian Lobby wants to mount such a rhetorical election campaign, bishops should offer a dignified distance and reticence.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/10/2979361.htm
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print