Sappho wrote on Jul 25^th, 2010 at 9:44pm:

I guess if one believes it is even possible to know truth in itself, uncontingent, beyond absolutes ("containing all within itself including itself etc) then one would have to know it beyond the abyss of doubt... i.e. by a great leap to the other side. As the intellect must always accede to doubt's unmitigated ubiquity, a mystical transcendence would be the only possible path beyond this abyss.

Buddhists believe this state cannot be taught, it must be arrived at by individual effort through mastering the great middle way through the eightfold path of Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration.

When you master this great feat, they believe, you will be liberated from samsara... You will have transcended the abyss of doubt and you will know truth in itself (emptiness... a concept which is beyond somethingness and nothingness).

That theme is common in eastern religious and philosophical traditions... Being the apprehension of truth/oneness/emptiness containing all within itself including itself, beyond absolutes, uncontingent and transcending the abyss (the otherwise indestructible ubiquity) of doubt, through prescribed meditative practises and mindful actions. Not that these prescriptions will guarantee that you will achieve enlightenment... Just that they indicate the way to the path that can be defined only to a point, beyond which only the enlightened will know. Apparently that moment will come upon the practitioner and s/he (although almost exclusively... its a he) will continue as before (Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water).

[For further information... you may have to consult a Buddhist who claims an insight into this kind of knowledge. I would suggest an audience with the Dalai Lama... Mahayanic Buddhists claim he is enlightened and is the 14th incarnation of the Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara (Compassion)... Who has chosen rebirth over Nirvana, returning to samsara to assist in the enlightenment of others... Or so they believe]

Soren wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 1:33pm:

Yes, apparently the state is recognised up to the western border of Uzbekistan. Any further west and the enlightened one must declare himself either in existence or extinct.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 2:11pm:

Dunno, but I reckon the ancient Greeks preferred beauty over truth...

Come to think of it, we all more readily believe the beautiful before the ugly.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 2:22pm:

Yes, maybe truth is whatever beautiful people tell us it is.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 6:28am:


I do know a little about Buddhism and have attended forums where the Dalai Lama has spoken, and will attend when he visits again next year.

This thread is about the nature of truth however, and Buddhist don't necessarily speak about truth, rather, they speak about knowing.

Knowing and Truth are somewhat different. One persons knowing can be different to another persons knowing even though both may contribute to the nature of the Truth from which the knowing is derived.

I wonder... is Truth more fluid in its nature than the absolutes we seek to impose upon it?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28^th, 2010 at 4:48pm:


You laugh and yet that is exactly the kind of thing that I mean.

An electron is no less an electron for being a wave or a particle. It also has that most interesting property of knowing exactly its location in the universe in relation to other electrons of the universe and then responds according to the responses of other electrons.

Truth then is no less a truth for the various knowings about it.

Truth is a human construct...and in this respect sometimes no more than a popularity contest or an exercise of power.