Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 10:30am:

So, you'd say actions don't speak louder than words then?

Truths are not relative. What are relative are opinions about truth.

— Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 11:24am:


I would have said that it has the potential to be good but it is not an end in itself. It has subjective good because I like the colour blue.

The "truth" is though, "knowing" philosophy lecturers I expect that I had still trapped myself. 

Can a belief ever be True?

I have seen a few useful definitions of truth.

1) Something that is true by definition or construction. This encompasses the field of mathematics, which is the only field where a genuine 'proof' can be given.

2) Something that is true by belief. ie religion. Maybe you could put "We hold these truths to be self evident" in the same category.

3) A simple fact (like wood grows on trees). Though this example could also be regarded as something that is true by definition. However what I am trying to get at here is the difference between truth/fact and law in science. In science, even the most dearly held beliefs are eventually shown to be false. The 'simple fact' is intended to be something that must be true because it is a direct observation and not dependent on our interpretation, which is heavily filtered by our world view (the belief system we have been indoctrinated into). However, the more you udnerstand about the extent of our interpretation of what we sense directly, the harder it becomes to pin down a 'simple fact'.

4) Legal truth. This is essentially argumentum ad populum - ie if a jury believes it then as far as the law is concerned it is true. However, it is not quite argumentum ad populum because there are very strict rules governing the way evidence and arguments can be presented to a jury. However these can only reduce but not eliminate the risks associated with argumentum ad populum.

5) A statement of value. eg I like Danish.

6) Whatever Seer Travis Truman says.

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 8:04pm:



Is that true?

locutius wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 2:38pm:

How would you ever know?

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2010 at 8:59am:

It is possible (quite common even) to hold a belief (even a deeply held one) and concede that one cannot be sure of its truth. Most of us are optimistic about the future, that things will work out well... But we'd all concede that we cannot know that belief is true (even in the short term - we might be run down by a bus tomorrow) and in fact would have plenty of evidence to the contrary.