Australian Politics Forum - Decriminalising Abortion

Annie Anthrax

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Decriminalising Abortion
Jul 5^th, 2010 at 10:14am

Quote:

ALMOST 90 per cent of Australians believe abortion in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy should be lawful.
The startling figure was contained in landmark research, released yesterday based on a 2008 survey of almost 800 Australians.

The research findings, published in the Medical Journal of Australia, also indicated support for later-term abortions.

"(The) survey shows a high level of support for access to early abortion: 87 per cent of respondents indicated that abortion should be lawful in the first trimester (61 per cent unconditionally and 26 per cent depending on the circumstances)," the Australian attitudes to early and late abortion paper said.

The survey also established support for later terminations.

While 28 per cent of respondents said abortion in the second trimester should be unlawful, 12 per cent said it should be lawful and almost 60 per cent said it should depend on the circumstances.

More than 40 per cent took the "depending on circumstances" position for third trimester abortions.

One of the paper's authors, Dr Lachlan de Crespigny said the findings should reignite the abortion debate in Queensland.

"The survey is showing remarkably consistent data that Australians believe they have the capacity to make their own decisions on abortion – they don't need a politician to control what they do," he said.

A case against Tegan Leach for attempting to procure an abortion is due back in the Cairns District Court this month. Her boyfriend Sergie Brennan has also been charged with supplying drugs to procure an abortion.

The Bligh Government late last year ruled out decriminalising abortion, with Attorney-General Cameron Dick saying any such move would have to be introduced to Parliament as a private member's bill, which would be subject to a conscience vote.

Dr de Crespigny said MPs should not fear a voter backlash, with the survey also showing more than a third of respondents would not change their vote if their local member supported legislative change to decriminalise abortion.

Another 25 per cent said they would be either much more likely or somewhat more likely to vote for their MP in that case.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/support-for-decriminalised-aborti...

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qikvtec Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1846 Queensland	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #1 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 7:51pm One needn't look too far on many political boards to find shining examples of the need for late 3rd Trimester abortion.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #2 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:09pm Tell me about it.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #3 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:29pm So when is the cut-off for legal abortion?
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #4 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:38pm Abortion laws vary from state to state but I don't think there is a cut off time that makes abortion illegal. In most cases, terminations can be carried out if the doctor determines a mother's physical or mental health is at risk regardless of the stage the pregnancy has reached.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #5 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:44pm So when is a 'birth control' abortion legal up to, ignoring the 'mother's health' justification.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #6 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:51pm You mean like a morning after pill? Implantation wouldn't have occured during the time it has to be taken to be effective, so its not an issue law-wise. Any medication taken to try and cause a miscarriage after a pregnancy has actually occured is illegal.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #7 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:53pm I should probably make it clear that I think 3rd trimester termination should be illegal, whatever the reason.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #8 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 8:54pm Quote: Any medication taken to try and cause a miscarriage after a pregnancy has actually occured is illegal. You sure about that?
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Decriminalising Abortion
Reply #9 - Jul 5^th, 2010 at 9:04pm

Pretty sure, though I could be wrong.

Quote:

65 Abortion
Whosoever being a woman with child with intent
to procure her own miscarriage unlawfully
administers to herself any poison or other noxious
thing or unlawfully uses any instrument or other
means, and whosoever with intent to procure the
miscarriage of any woman whether she is or is not
with child unlawfully administers to her or causes
to be taken by her any poison or other noxious
thing, or unlawfully uses any instrument or other
means with the like intent, shall be guilty of an
indictable offence, and shall be liable to level 5
imprisonment (10 years maximum).
66 Supplying or procuring anything to be employed in
abortion
Whosoever unlawfully supplies or procures any
poison or other noxious thing or any instrument or
thing whatsoever, knowing that the same is
intended to be unlawfully used or employed with
intent to procure the miscarriage of any woman,
whether with child or not, shall be guilty of an
indictable offence, and shall be liable to level 6
imprisonment (5 years maximum).

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubLawToday.nsf/a12f6f60...

From the ARHA:

Quote:

The Legal Status of Abortion in Australia
Abortion appears to be the only widely practiced medical procedure in Australia that is criminalised.
Termination of pregnancy is contained under the Criminal Act in every state and territory except the
ACT. The laws vary regarding what constitutes an ‘unlawful’ abortion with WA having the most liberal
regime
1
.
The following items are common to all criminal statutory provisions, except in the ACT and WA:
It is an offence to unlawfully administer any poison or noxious thing, use any instrument or other
means, with intent to procure a miscarriage
It is an offence for a woman to procure or attempt to procure her own miscarriage
It is an offence to supply the means to procure a miscarriage (eg a drug or instrument)
Queensland
Technically the QLD abortion code specifically makes abortion a criminal offence unless they are to
preserve the life of the mother. However, the 1969 Menhennit ruling (R v Davidson) is applied in QLD.
That is, termination is allowed where the medical practitioner honestly and reasonably believes it is
necessary to preserve the woman from a serious danger to her life or her physical or mental health
(beyond the normal dangers of pregnancy and childbirth).
Victoria
The Menhennit ruling forms the basis of Victorian law on termination. The private sector provides
terminations up to 18 weeks gestation. Public sector services are available up to 20 weeks gestation or 22
weeks for foetal abnormality
2
.
New South Wales/Tasmania
In NSW an abortion is not ‘unlawful’ if the accused has an honest and reasonable belief that an abortion
would avoid serious risk of danger to the woman’s life or physical or mental health based on
‘economic, social or medical grounds or reasons’. A serious risk of danger may apply at any stage of
pregnancy. Tasmanian laws are similar to those of NSW.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #10 - Jul 6^th, 2010 at 7:36pm Quote: Abortion appears to be the only widely practiced medical procedure in Australia that is criminalised. If it is widely practiced and not actively pursued by the authorities, then it is not actually illegal. This is a basic concept in common law.
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mozzaok

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Re: Decriminalising Abortion
Reply #11 - Jul 6^th, 2010 at 8:01pm

qikvtec wrote on Jul 5^th, 2010 at 7:51pm:

One needn't look too far on many political boards to find shining examples of the need for late 3rd Trimester abortion.

That reminds me of a question in Parliament back in the early 1970,s, when Whitlam was PM, and Malcolm Fraser got up and demanded that Whitlam give a clear indication of whether he was in favour of legalised abortion or not.
Whitlam replied; "I am, and in your case I would make it retrospective."

I miss the days when listening to question time was entertaining as well as informative, Whitlam had some real no-hopers as some of his Ministers, like weird Al Grassby, and Jim, hide your wallets, Cairns, as his woeful Treasurer, but there were also some great speakers in the Parliament then, which we sadly do not seem to have anymore.

As to the matter of abortion, Victoria seems to have the most recent, and clearest rulings on what the community standards are, as legislated in a new law in 2008.
Annie was right in thinking that a time period is mentioned, and that is 24 weeks, before that a doctor can determine the case on his own, but after 24 weeks at least 2 doctors must consult, and agree that the stated criteria are met.

As for FD's assertion that a law not being enforced is the same as being legal, then he should perhaps inform the judges who convicted a NSW doctor for doing an illegal abortion in 2006.

The fact that Doctors were operating under a quasi-legal ideal on how abortions should be conducted, rather than having a specific law stating clearly what those criteria were, was why Victoria acted a couple of years ago, as the threat of prosecution hung like the proverbial sword of damacles over the heads of any Doctor if someone chose to question his interpretation of the "expected" standards that they had been working under.

Most states now look to Victoria's legislation as the blueprint for a modern legal approach to the abortion issue.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #12 - Jul 6^th, 2010 at 8:43pm Quote: As for FD's assertion that a law not being enforced is the same as being legal, then he should perhaps inform the judges who convicted a NSW doctor for doing an illegal abortion in 2006. That is an example of it being enforced.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: Decriminalising Abortion Reply #13 - Jul 7^th, 2010 at 9:23am There was also the case last year when a woman and her partner were charged for inducing a miscarriage. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/first-illegal-termination-case-for-25-years...
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locutius

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Re: Decriminalising Abortion
Reply #14 - Jul 7^th, 2010 at 10:32am

Many years ago I had very clear cut ideas about abortion.

Basically I believed that 1st trimester abortions bit of a free for all. 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions only in situations where a mother's health is in jeopardy.

I have altered my stance on 1st trimester abortions to I guess a more severe yet less established stance. I now think that abortion used as a means of habitual birth control is a revolting and destructive reflection of what is wrong with modern society...I do think of it as killing not just removing some unwanted tissue. I will be interested to see some more discussion of it though to help me clarify what that stance may be.

I think that multiple users of the practice should be sterilised, and in balance I think fathers of multiple children they are incapable of supporting should also be sterilised.

Some may say that is very NAZI of you Loc but I can only reply "Jawohl".

In reference to what Whitlam had to say though I can only agree.

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