Australian Politics Forum - Mutiny on the Bounty

It_is_the_Darkness Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4000 in a ReTardis Gender:	Re: Mutiny on the Bounty Reply #15 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:17pm So SynergyShift, will the Liberals bring back Malcolm Turnbull (the guy Don Chipp warned us about as being too personally ambitious) to take on Gillard because he can be more of a bitch than what she could or will they kick off Abbott and make it an all girl fight?
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Soren

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #16 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:17pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:11pm:

Well I think Rudd and Murdoch exhibited obvious distaste for one another as Murdoch found that Rudd would rather serve the United Nations rather than Murdochs 'precious' United States. Murdoch has obviously helped put Rudd out of the picture.

You are ignorant of the political system that you live in and fill the massive gaps with del;uded conspiracy theories.

One more reason to give a great thanks for the Westminster system Your guy, Alvin Green, is on a different thread.

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shampain socialist

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #17 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:20pm

you can see what's going on. labor knows that a sufficiently high proportion of the Australian population these days (and it has taken decades of careful nurturing to get to this, the media has a lot to do with it), is very receptive to *image*. Rudd was a different sort of "sensitive new age man" type of labor candidate, they had never had that sort of image before. Enough of the public bought it hook line and sinker because they didn't look past the face. Now it's just more of the same, "female with a hairdo and a folksy accent", a lot of people will just lap that up. They won't care about substance, they think the image is the substance. Until the economy starts to go belly up.
Look, it takes decades to get a population to this sort of malleability, it's certainly a job well done. You've got to hand it to them.

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Soren

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #18 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:20pm

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:12pm:

Then Soren, we should just waste our precious time voting for our Local Council and leave the rest up to them ....eh?

Believe it or not, I am not making this up - you are actually living in a country that is governed by the Westminster system. It's a centuries old system. I know it's a shock, but there it is.

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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #19 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:22pm

Sorry Soren, but 'conspiracy theories' don't work with me at all...they are just theories afterall. I know what I saw as they both walked out from the traditional 'Dinner with Murdoch' as each new PM finds himself. You don't need to be Blind Freddy Fittler knocking on the wrong door to work it all out. Murdoch and Rudd dissapproved of one another and Murdochs face read "This guy will be no pushover". John Howard on the other hand was very pro-United States, hence why Bush labelled him 'Superman'. Who do you prefer Khoffi Annan or Barack Obama? The United Nations path may not be the stronger currently, but it is the more 'right' than wrong.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #20 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:24pm

soren Quote:

This is caled the Westminster system. You do not vote for prime minister. You vote for your representatives. Your represenatives will elect their leader. The leader of the party with the majority of representatives is the PM.

It has been exactly like this for centuries.

and the westminster system is very good.

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Soren

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #21 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:27pm

The Libs could have on the same to Hopward in but chose not to out of hope and a different kind of code of honour. Hawke did the same thing to Hayden (although they were in opposition at the time, Labor wanted to make absolutely sure that they'd win then). Keating did it to Hawke.

Rees did it to Iemma, Keneally to Rees. The 'class struggle' crowd are much more fond of this sort of thing than the rabid rightwing lapdogs of Amerikkka.

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shampain socialist

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #22 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:27pm

the liberals will keep Abbott I predict. They won't change horses now, it would look desperate. That's why the lefties are shrilling out about it now - oooh, Abbott is our best chance to get in. They desperately want the guy replaced so they can say the libs are scared and confused.
The libs will keep Abbott for sure. The libs have a job to do though in terms of their own reinvention. they haven't done that yet, they're still operating on the old fashioned parameter that the majority of the Australian public are extremely sharp-eyed, pragmatic, no-nonsense voters who can analyse and go beyond image. Times have changed, the Australian public is increasingly unable to do that. The pity is that when the libs realise this and change, and change they will you can bet on it, they will do a much better job at selling image not substance than labor could ever do, and they will have a much wider range of images to put forward than the cardigans can come up with.
Gillard might get in, but she'll be shafted by the boys, bet on it.

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freediver

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #23 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:36pm

Quote:

So FreeDiver (Yes I love to Dive too), you are saying a 'majority' of the Australian Population ...the voting population, rocked up to their local MP's and said "Drop Rudd, put in Gillard"

No.

Quote:

A Political Leader who was a promotion of the Linguistics rather than the Spin Doctoring or Salesmanship of Politics that we have seen for many, many decades.

Who are you talking about?

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shampain socialist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1004	Re: Mutiny on the Bounty Reply #24 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:38pm and when the liberals change to that modus operandi, Australia will definitely change forever and be the land of b*sht on every side of politics, and the public will get even more shafted than they've ever been before. Congratulations.
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It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #25 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:41pm

Of course the Westminster system is good. Hey, there are 8 different races upon this planet and that means there are 8 right answers to a problem...but the thing is - which one is the most suitable. I mean, the USA political System is good also. Castro may have had Communism in Cuba, but it served well for a nation whose priority wasn't Politics. I'm sure in a pro-military nation like Fiji, the Westminster System would be a hinderance. So what I am saying is that I think neither the Westminster or anything the USA can offer is suitable to Australia and especially an Australia that needs a population growth. (That is, not having women work 24/7 so the Liberals can claim a profit from a low unemployment rate or keep a low population so Australia can look better off in a Recession than what a 900 million USA can as Labor put it).

I am FORCED to vote for fear of reprisal in fines up to $500 and a cancellation of my Licence. I expect then that my vote is to be respected and honoured. My vote stands with the majority of my fellow Australian's vote and I honour that 'system'.
To then have my vote corrupted by the MP's up is just pure 'mental abuse'.

...well, gotta call it a night, I'm starting to 'rant'. But I won't let this rest.

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« Last Edit: Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:47pm by It_is_the_Darkness »

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shampain socialist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1004	Re: Mutiny on the Bounty Reply #26 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:47pm Who you gonna vote for then?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: Mutiny on the Bounty Reply #27 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:48pm What do people think of this systemn as an alternative? http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-reform.html#direct-democracy
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shampain socialist

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #28 - Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:58pm

need a referendum to bring in something like that, and it is so difficult a concept for most people to get their heads around, they would simply vote no.
Anyway, it is a system that favours the educated and politically aware so there would be skewing of government activity and policy towards interest groups, not individuals.
Good idea, not workable, wouldn't get up. Yet.

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Soren

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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty
Reply #29 - Jun 27^th, 2010 at 12:12am

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 26^th, 2010 at 11:41pm:

Of course the Westminster system is good. Hey, there are 8 different races upon this planet and that means there are 8 right answers to a problem...but the thing is - which one is the most suitable. I mean, the USA political System is good also. Castro may have had Communism in Cuba, but it served well for a nation whose priority wasn't Politics. I'm sure in a pro-military nation like Fiji, the Westminster System would be a hinderance. So what I am saying is that I think neither the Westminster or anything the USA can offer is suitable to Australia and especially an Australia that needs a population growth. (That is, not having women work 24/7 so the Liberals can claim a profit from a low unemployment rate or keep a low population so Australia can look better off in a Recession than what a 900 million USA can as Labor put it).

I am FORCED to vote for fear of reprisal in fines up to $500 and a cancellation of my Licence. I expect then that my vote is to be respected and honoured. My vote stands with the majority of my fellow Australian's vote and I honour that 'system'.
To then have my vote corrupted by the MP's up is just pure 'mental abuse'.

...well, gotta call it a night, I'm starting to 'rant'. But I won't let this rest.

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