Will Labor win with Julia?
Obviously the labor back benchers think so &
the next few months will be an exciting time for politics.

aikmann4 wrote on Jun 24^th, 2010 at 5:48pm:


You never know - some women like those Abbott budgie smugglers.

Yeah.. 0.1% of them.

I'm sure the betting market will firm behind labor!

  Labor      
1.45             
Coalition      
2.65  , as @ 24/6/10 http://www.sportingbet.com.au/uipub/sport.aspx?l1id=34&l2id=754608&l3id=754609

Who knows but it may come down to being less about the leader and more about traditional party policies.

While i'm no fan, the treatment of Kevin was disgraceful.  Its hard to accept that the back stabbing can not damage Labour's chances of pulling off a re-election.

That said the biggest factor in their favour has to be Tony Abbott. Does anyone really see him as PM? leading the country? representing us internationally?  If they run with Tony I can see voters not being able to actually vote for him when it comes down to it.

probably

tribal voting based on some common identification is pretty widespread

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2010 at 5:42pm:


I don't know!

But, as I have suspected for some time, I think it will be close.

From a perspective of what would be better, for Australia, I would tend toward a narrow Labor win, but it could easily go the other way.

My reasoning, for saying a Labor win would be better for OZ, is that the Liberals would most likely revert back to history and go for another bout of Howardism, along similar lines to what the UK Conservatives are doing now.

The LIberals would take the Publics disposal income to the cleaners, but this is not 1996 and to gouge disposable income right now, is exactly the wrong course of action!

The timing for that kind of action, is completely wrong!!!

I think we'll see within days what's going to happen to Labor. The Australian people don't take kindly to this sort of backstabbing. Contrast this shameful Labor Party act with the Liberals prior to the 2007 election - Howard went the full term and faced the music, historically, he even lost his own seat in the process, but didn't go panicking beforehand nor did the libs trying to get rid of him to head off the Australian people at the ballot box.
Personally, at this stage, I think Labor is going to get a flogging from the Australian electorate over this. How cowardly.

Equitist wrote on Jun 24^th, 2010 at 9:04pm:



You must be a Greek.

Quote:


What about the interest payments that go to bankers instead
of that money being spent on hospitals & schools?
We're talking billions that can't be spent where it's needed.

As for your other points - one thing at a time!

the last time the labor credit cards were out was in the Whitlam years (this current labor lot makes that debt look like a tea party). The Whitlam government actually got dismissed from office because of fiscal irresponsibility. The damage was already done, however, and within a few years interest rates (as the gauge of inflation) and prices, went through the roof!  Most people today wouldn't remember that mortgage rates went to 16% in those days - all a legacy of cavalier labor spending sprees to make themselves look good and get votes.
Wait til the inflation starts in a few years after this lot of numpties have finished stuffing things up! When your mortgage rates hits 20% don't blame the libs, labor did it. Again!
When will labor people stop thinking it's ok to spend other people's money - and then tax you because they've overspent.
They give me the you know whats.

The Labor Party would do well to heed the mistakes of their predecessors.

Regrettably .. given the historical record of Australian Federal politics over the past 40 years .. this will never happen.

i've just started to watch rudds farewell speech.
the body language of his wife and son is palapable.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/the-bustling-politician-who-mastered-everything-bu...

get your tissures ready before you watch this one.

i'm about 6 mins into it.

A party in disarray .. a country in economic tatters ... again.

When will WE learn to NEVER EVER vote Labor ... again?

I actually admired his son because he was clearly given a strenous briefing before the announcement, not to in any way show any anger or disdain for what had happened in front of the cameras for the public to see as that would be counterproductive for the government. His father no doubt told him that; then he had to watch his father crucify himself.
I am so angry.
This country deserves a whole lot better than what the labor party dishes up, and frighteningly, what the majority of Australians think they should vote for.

in my experience, most public organisations end up as empire building, self-serving cliques run by a whole lot of ambitious backstabbers looking after themselves under the guise of a philosophy of "helping you".  They don't change either unless they are made to change. Economic collapses generally do that, if the democratic system can't.

phew, saw it to the end.

felt it was a relief for rudd to wave bye bye.
he saw the end coming..

he was not leadership material

i think you hit the nail on the head there.
rudds first job was as a bureaurocrat. what smacking job is that ???

yeah, howard was an old guy from a previous generation.
who do I want leading us - someone who won't make BIG mistakes.


youth and enthusiasm will always be bettered by experience and cunning.

I think the most disturbing aspect of Rudd was his obsessive sinophilia. He had "deracinated white person" written all over him; exactly the kind of person you don't want running the country or working in any branch of government at all. It was just my perception of him that he didn't really care about his own people; his passion and his heart was in Chinese culture, and the history, traditions and even the people of Australia weren't of any interest to him. People like this are extremely dangerous and only want to transform everything they can get their hands on.

Other personal aspects of him were distasteful as well. An unpleasant, passive-aggressive beta-male who chucked tantrums over vegeterian meals and became visibly upset on national television, he was hardly a person, regardless of what his policies were, that could be considered viable in the eyes of most people as a leader. Nobody wants a touchy-feely sensitive weiner in a PM. Men like that don't command anybody's respect.

I'm not even motivated by policy anymore when it comes to who I like and who I want to vote for in our leaders. The policies of all our major parties are mostly sh!t, so it may as well just come down to the superficial when deciding who I want representing this country and who I don't.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 1:58am:


Yes - people wanted to get rid of Howard - but don't blame those who voted for Labor. Costello didn't have the guts to tap Howard on the shoulder. Perhaps if he had - he would have been our PM today. The Liberals miscalculated and Rudd won by default.

There were plenty of bad decisions made by Howard during his reign - but because he didn't back down as Rudd did, many people initially believed he was strong.

I think the Labor policies so far haven't been too bad - apart from the insulation scheme. Rudd just hasn't had the ability to implement them. He was also hated by his cabinet and staff, whereas John Howard had their full support.

It's all down to leadership style and a party can only function properly depending on who the manager is. Rudd's unpopularity, management style and his bulldust became intolerable.

Some of us might have given Liberal our preferances if Brendan Nelson hadn't been booted - but Abbott is unbearable.

I think Julia Gillard will win the next election if she's careful.

The blubbering outpourings of right whingers, of confected empathy for Rudd and associated pseudo-outrage, are very touching - albeit remarkably disingenuous...

I'm really really surprised with what happened yesterday and HOW it also effected me & my family. It has me questioning  more and more nearly every aspect of life...
It was a very sad day ..have we become  so ungrateful and selfish that we kicked   a   good hearted man down ??

I really question what people are becoming. I also worry that this will come back to bite 'us' in a big way.....
also shows me how unsteady life is....

Reply #30 - Today at 1:30am     I actually admired his son because he was clearly given a strenous briefing before the announcement, not to in any way show any anger or disdain for what had happened in front of the cameras for the public to see as that would be counterproductive for the government. His father no doubt told him that; then he had to watch his father crucify himself.
I am so angry.


=====================

Me too.
Angry and also frustrated . Frustrated that I can not show Rudd my support .... Respect, where is it?

Hearing jokes and satire on the radio already mocking Rudds speech...please...we are sick society.

yes. It is disgusting to listen to the radio and media generally. I have not listened to radio for years and years now because of the stupidity and egotism evident there. Thank goodness for the internet.

What you see is the demise of empathy in a society. If that happens in the general community it will surely be evident in the political parties in mirror-image. If the lefties can do that to their own leader, what do you think they will do to you?
They don't care about you. When will Australians wake up - before it is too late? Just because a political party has the word 'labor' in it, doesn't make it all sweetness, light and service.

Vote for them at your peril. They are intolerant, arrogant, autocratic, extreme lefties. You watch the media now and see how intolerant Gillard will be about being asked to give responses to questions. She is an extreme lefty. It is un-Australian.

Hearing jokes and satire on the radio already mocking Rudds speech...please...we are sick society


------------------

BTW that WAS ABC radio...

which for me made it even more sickening...is all our media now shot?

why are you surprised it is ABC radio? That is the labor radio station, they are lefties as well. Try getting a job at the ABC if you can't show you're a committed labor supported, the further left the better.
Do you know how much this country pays to keep those lefties in ABC jobs all round the world. You would be shocked.

Quote:


I hear you Vegitamatey et al - and I feel your anguish - but I am perhaps more disillusioned by all the confected empathy and outrage of the right whingers...

Their serial vicious and hate-filled attacks, on Rudd in the past, totally belie their bleeding heart babbling over the past day or so...

That said, I never really warmed to Rudd - because, for his overall altruism, he was not a team player - but I would not wish this fate on him or anyone...

He was clearly a shell-shocked and broken man yesterday and I struggled to hold back my own tears when he faced the media with his family - but there is really no nice way to topple an autocratic leader who refuses to be a team player...

Whether the henchman ultimately come for the delusional Abbott bigot's head, that scenario won't be any prettier, than allowing him to serially embarrass and shame himself and his party, to the point of him needing to resign - either way, his demise will be ugly and pathetic...

Such is the ruthless and cut-throat political game!

Oh, and who will be more at fault, when Abbott's patently bi-polar mental illness sends him into a deep depression!? Will it be those who reject him, or the self-serving puppeteers who installed him in the first instance!?

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 9:48am:


Actually, I reckon he's all the more dangerous, because he's a delusional religious-righteous fundamentalcase - a bigot!

Minchin's Mad Marionette is also patently bi-polar - but you can't easily sack him now, after his pathetic personal plea for sympathy (i.e. his thinly-veiled threat) in QT yesterday - cos everyone knows that bi-polar people are prone to committing the ultimate 'I told you so'!

His blood won't be on my hands - but will his puppeteers cut him loose and take responsibility, for the grave consequences of putting him in such a vulnerable and dangerous position in the first instance!? I doubt it!

you are the closed-minded bigot, my friend. You think everyone on the far left of politics are the only "well-balanced" ones.

I do think this country will come to a cross roads very soon, as to whether people want to subject themselves to left wing hypocrisy and repression, or have the free Australia that we used to have.

Just as well there is still a governor general in country so we can kick out autocratic, damaging leftists. I just hope they go when they are ordered to.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 9:48am:

LOL ,Abbott is the most far right leader of a major party that this country has ever seen. Your assertions that Rudd or Labor under Rudd were a left wing party just shows your utter ignorance, Menzies the founder of the Liberal party was to the left of Rudd.
As for the rest of your spin, LOL I certainly hope you're right, I hope Julia does take Labor to the left, Labor have faulted badly trying to be a centre right party under Rudd this country needs a true socialist party, I hope Gillard delivers it.

This country will not become a far left or para communist regressive party. It is a leading developed economy which has an ageing population of socialists who do not like to have families, but rather live comfy lives at other people's expense. The time will come when this country must import millions of people to keep the place running. They will not be lefties.
This is one of the richest per capita countries in the world - para commies never had it so comfortable.

I read an interview with Tony Abbot in which he said that he has the utmost respect for Julia Gillard. They'd been seated next to each other on an interstate flight and bantered back and forth for the duration.

Abbot said they'd struck up a friendship and that Gillard would make a formidable opponent in an election, that she had a fabulous sense of humour, and was extremely intelligent.

I love it how lefties get really upset when average, ordinary people of modest means don't want to vote for them. They *demand* that people like that should be socialists.
We're not all frightened cowards, my lefty friend.

skippy. wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 10:21am:



The 60s are over, dad.

it is really as simple as that. socialists spend more than they have, then take more off everyone else to fund it.
In some countries (big ones), you know what government do when they have no more money to collect? They print it. Yes, they simply print it.
That destroys the value of your assets and the wealth of the country big time. Australia hasn't reached that stage yet, because we live in a resource-rich country with a small population. The best situation of any country in history. We don't know how lucky we are. socialist spending can stuff it up though, it has already done damage that isn't visible yet - it will become visible to you when your mortgage rate goes up with interest rate rises because of inflation, and you can't afford to have a family.
That's what socialist spending beyond one's means does - you pay for that luxury. The socialist bureaucrats and politicians will always make themselves very comfortable though.

don't get conned simply because Gillard is a woman. She is an extreme leftie, and they want your money to pay their deficits.

arrogant, intolerant, stubborn lefties are un-Australian. Man or woman.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 10:27am:


LOL...that's code for: I'm shyte-scared of Julia Gillard - don't under-estimate her uncanny ability, to use subtly ironic humour, to reduce a pathetic mysoginistic bigot like me to pea-size with one poignant phrase...


(Of course, Abbott lacks the insight to put his feelings of paranoia in such terms!)

Well yes I see an extrremely bigoted mindset in Julia becoming PM. It sorta shows how far we have not come.
Julia is a woman. She is also a ranger. She is also (as far as I know), the first unmarried PM.
She is also the first "Western Bulldogs" number one ticket holder.
Should she paint her face black?
She stands for an ideal as far as I am concerned. I couldn't care less about any other attributes.

I think Gillard is better than pouting Mr Rudd.

If she moves to the left before the election, she'll turfed out by the electorate. She must stop the waste of money, stop the boats and stop the dogwhistle class warfare with miners.

She could be great, and she will always be better than Rudd simply because she is not a compulsive like Rudd. We'll see how much of a factional creature she is. Despite being Deputy PM for years, very little else is known about her as far as her policy outlook and instincts are concerned, once power is hers to wield (which is not the same as left wing student rhetoric a few decades ago.)

My feeling is that if AUstralians could be sucked in by Rudd, they can be sucked in by anyone. (I hasten to add that in this respect we are not much different from the Americans who were sucked in by a different kind of hollow man.)
Then again, the elecyorate's rapid sobering up from its stupor in the last 4 months can also be an indicator that AUstralians are capable of self-correction.

the people who didn't vote for labor and Rudd didn't get suckered in.
The people who did vote for Rudd didn't get suckered in by Rudd (he is what you see is what you get - if you knew what you were looking at and recognised a senior bureaucrat, nothing more than that, when you saw one). They got suckered in by the left wing of the labor party machine who put him up as a stooge for you to vote for because you thought he was a centrist (which he is actually). What they wanted was for the leftie paras to get into power - that is exactly what has happened. Gillard is an extreme leftie.
You wanted someone who was centre, like us, now you have an extremist.

skippy. wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 10:44am:



If Rudd and Gillard and Arbib and Shorten pass for a revolution for you, well, that's an almighty climb-down from the 60s,  dad.

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:04am:

Its time for you to have another swallow,swallow.

you don't like people who disagree with you do you, leftie commie.
As Australians will see, lefties are big spenders of other people's money and run up deficits so big they then have to pinch money from well-run industries and other individuals.
leftie commies are just that - extreme. Most Australians are not like that, certainly enough of them in the middle ground to get rid of socialist failures.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:09am:

I know you feel inadequate princess, what's it feel like to be so out of touch, sweet thing?

governments that blow billions in savings and then run up big debts on top of that, and then want to tax everyone else to pay for it are the inadequate ones. People who vote for them, I'm not sure how to describe them. Lefties I suppose.
Have you got anything substantial to say, or just ad hominem invective. You're a leftie, I guess you don't.

Rudd was a much more upfront (and naive) person than the calculating, smarmy, cynical Gillard - and Swan.
They shafted him, they were always going to. That's how they treat their own - and your elected prime minister - don't expect they think much of you either.
B*shtrs. I wouldn't vote for these bags if there was no other option.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:23am:


Neither would I. I wouldn't vote for Abbot either. The Jeddai knights party is looking better every day, or maybe it's just because I'm a Jeddai Knights adherent today. 

Quote:


The governor general position is irrelevant to Australia ever since the whitlam dismissal. Don't even put it into play, it means nothing.

Look to something that's more appreciated by the public, and then you may have a party that can gain office.

The unions and the factions are back in charge of the Labor Party whose top echelons are completely captured by labor lawyers and union hacks and - er, that's it.

The unions? Who is still in the unions? "The ABS said 46 per cent of public-sector employees were union members compared with 14 per cent in the private sector." In other words, the servers in the public sector and some of the over-55 blue collar working class. The latter, of course, is completely absent from the parliamentary Labor Party.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:23am:



Oh, the sheer irony...

Right up until yesterday morning, your fellow right whingers viciously applied the labels 'calculating' and 'smarmy' and 'cynical' and 'arrogant' (amongst other things) to their [NEWLY] 'BELOVED [OPPOSING PARTY'S] LEADER'!?

Even funnier, is that you're now 'bleeding-hearts' too!

Fascinating role reversal, eh!?

live within your means and stop spending other people's savings.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:48am:


No, that would be the highly-inflationary, counter-productive and fiscally-reckless high-end tax cuts and effectively-exclusive WEALTHfare (especially the billions of wasted dollars in pre-paid pensions to the already-well-off euphemistically known as 'Superannuation Tax Concessions')...

annie - the ones on the right are right

knifing your mate ain't 'sstraaarrllin.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 11:49am:


They are only un-Australian if they don't wear a slouch hat with corks and sing "Arse traylians all let arse rejoice..."

or am I an Un-Australian (insert derogative term for centrist)

I think we should adopt Leftroid, Rightroid and Centroid for our national politically derogative terms. That's 'roid' as in hemarroid.

All the other terms are un-Australian.

within one year the stupid labor politicians spent the whole of the national savings - apparently to save us from a recession we didn't even have. More labor b*sht
Australians aren't b&shtrs. Lefties usually sound like b*shtrs to me.

Quote:


Or if they don't exclaim "Crikey!" at every possible opportunity. In a country as diverse as ours, un-Australian is such a ridiculous term. It implies a lack of patriotism, which p!sses me off royally.


Quote:

a lot of people do that, I do, all ordinary middle ground people. The major parties hate it, especially the lefties - because they demand that if you're not wealthy you have to be a labor voter. Arrogant b*strds.
The middle ground decides elections in this country and it is anywhere from 5 to 15 percent of the electorate. Extremists at either end don't.
The Australian middle ground voters do. They are the Australians.

Quote:

Yep, you can thank Labor for that, most of the world is still in crisis but thanks to Labor, you don't even feel it here.
But, if the Libs were in power we'd be in the worst crisis since the great depression, why? because Abbott's plan was DO NOTHING.

Quote:


We didn't suffer from the GFC because Peter Costello was a brilliant Treasurer, and Rudd did a good job steering us through. He's admired internationally because of it.

I respect him for that. I love that he apologised to Indigenous Australians, and the way that he did it. His speech yesterday was heartbreaking.

All of that said, he was stuffing up left right and centre. A lot of Australians lost confidence in his leadership abilities. It remains to be seen whether Gillard will do any better, but she has the potential.

And at this point, anyone is better than a man who seems to take every opportunity to be photographed in speedos and who has the gall to tell women what they should do with their own bodies.  

"Rudd steering us through". Rubbish, they didn't do anything, they just say they did. What, send everyone a cheque to spend at the nearest department store saves us from the GFC? more labor b*sht.

Hey skippy, you can now vote for the left commie feminista anti-male politicians. Gee I'm glad I've got another passport and I can get out of the socialist gulag of Australia with my family.

ad hominem abuse from skippy, just what lefties do best when they have no argument.

shampain socialist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2010 at 12:27pm:

Evidence? if you please, you'll look like a liar if you cant back up your assertion Australia is in recession.

Deleted because I didn't like it.

Fact: labor spent billions in national savings in their very first year of government, and had nothing left;
Fact: they then immediately went into deficits many times that, which will cause massive inflation, probably stagflation which is even worse, and much higher interest rates on mortgages.

That's a recession. Wait for it. It will get a lot worse. You will try to blame the libs or rightists though. more labor b*sht.