Australian Politics Forum - Incompetency, Why & When?

fawkes

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #30 - Feb 26^th, 2010 at 8:31am

Discussing government run enterprises, freediver wrote:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2010 at 7:43pm:

On what basis are you judging their performance? I guarantee you that if you compare them to competitive private enterprises they would come up second best every time.

Here are a few bases for comparison that spring to mind:

Proportion of profits distributed amongst all taxpayers.

Government enterprise - plenty.

Private enterprise - nil.

Major infrastructure projects built.

Government enterprise - road networks, railways, nationwide telephone network, airports, Snowy Mountains hydroelectric scheme, water supplies, sewerage, Sydney Opera House, libraries, hospitals, etc. etc.

Private enterprise - shopping centres, hospitals, junk food chains

Loan interest rates quoted for financing Australia's First World War effort.

Government bank - 0.5%

Private banks - 6%

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47464 At my desk.	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #31 - Feb 26^th, 2010 at 7:35pm That's a pretty silly basis to judge their performance on.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #32 - Feb 26^th, 2010 at 8:04pm Fawkes, government is there to facilitate private enterprise. Not the other way around. Government is not the greatest good.
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fawkes Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #33 - Feb 27^th, 2010 at 8:53am Actually, in a true democracy government is there to do whatever the people collectively want done. Amongst other things that includes everything too big or too important to be trusted to private enterprise.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47464 At my desk.	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #34 - Feb 28^th, 2010 at 8:27pm Important? Aren't food and shelter some of the most important things? We happily let the free market deliver those. There are plenty of rational justifications for leaving an industry in the hands of government, but importance is not one of them.
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Sappho

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #35 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:46am

freediver wrote on Feb 28^th, 2010 at 8:27pm:

Important? Aren't food and shelter some of the most important things? We happily let the free market deliver those.

The market is not free. It is controlled by govt checks and measures. These checks and measures along with sound economic policy ensure the majority have the means to satisfy food and shelter needs.

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Sappho

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #36 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:48am

fawkes wrote on Feb 27^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Actually, in a true democracy government is there to do whatever the people collectively want done. Amongst other things that includes everything too big or too important to be trusted to private enterprise.

The only true democracy ever to have existed was in Ancient Athens. It lasted only 100 years before collapsing in a heap.

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Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #37 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:49am Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2010 at 8:04pm: Fawkes, government is there to facilitate private enterprise. Not the other way around. Government is not the greatest good. Agreed. People are the greatest good.
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fawkes Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #38 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 9:42am Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:49am: People are the greatest good. Good for who? Good for other people, perhaps. But for the planet as a whole, people can best be likened to a vicious parasitic virus.
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Sappho

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #39 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm

fawkes wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 9:42am:

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:49am:

People are the greatest good.

Good for who?

Good for other people, perhaps. But for the planet as a whole, people can best be likened to a vicious parasitic virus.

Yes for us! As to the planet... well, if we want to survive its wrath, we need to work together and adapt to the changing challenges the planet presents.

Only a fool assumes we are more powerful than the planet and somehow a virus that can over-run it... odds are good that when we are long gone, the planet will be still here exploring new life to evolve.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Incompetency, Why & When? Reply #40 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 2:17pm fawkes wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 9:42am: Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:49am: People are the greatest good. Good for who? Good for other people, perhaps. But for the planet as a whole, people can best be likened to a vicious parasitic virus. An old wanker.
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fawkes

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #41 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 5:38pm

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm:

Only a fool assumes we are more powerful than the planet and somehow a virus that can over-run it...

We've done a pretty good job of messing it up so far, and we haven't even had our first major nuclear conflagration yet. We have driven numerous species to extinction, over-fished the world's fisheries to the point where fishing is uneconomical in large areas, chopped down most of the world's forests and are currently arguing about whether we have destroyed the planet's climate patterns. Meanwhile, in a growing number of places we are becoming so angry and frustrated with other members of our own species that we elect politicians who border on madness whilst we try to bomb each other to pieces.

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm:

odds are good that when we are long gone, the planet will be still here exploring new life to evolve.

You are right about that. The way we are going, the planet is likely to remain in a different condition long after we have gone.

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Sappho

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #42 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 6:33pm

fawkes wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 5:38pm:

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm:

Only a fool assumes we are more powerful than the planet and somehow a virus that can over-run it...

We've done a pretty good job of messing it up so far, and we haven't even had our first major nuclear conflagration yet. We have driven numerous species to extinction, over-fished the world's fisheries to the point where fishing is uneconomical in large areas, chopped down most of the world's forests and are currently arguing about whether we have destroyed the planet's climate patterns. Meanwhile, in a growing number of places we are becoming so angry and frustrated with other members of our own species that we elect politicians who border on madness whilst we try to bomb each other to pieces.

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 1:46pm:

odds are good that when we are long gone, the planet will be still here exploring new life to evolve.

You are right about that. The way we are going, the planet is likely to remain in a different condition long after we have gone.

Oh... go tell it to the dinosaurs.

Really, the way you talk... you'd think there was a meaning to life.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #43 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 6:51pm

fawkes wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 5:38pm:

Meanwhile, in a growing number of places we are becoming so angry and frustrated with other members of our own species that we elect politicians who border on madness whilst we try to bomb each other to pieces.

As opposed to those Idyllic days when benign dictators ruled the earth... y'know... before the Westminster system sacked Utopia... I think there were elves as well.... yeah... I'm pretty sure the elves were involved.

Or were they dwarves? Or gnomes? I can never remember the difference. One lot are just very short people and the other lot are short as well but also magical.

Anyway, elves were definitely involved.

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freediver

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Re: Incompetency, Why & When?
Reply #44 - Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:55pm

Sappho wrote on Mar 1^st, 2010 at 8:46am:

freediver wrote on Feb 28^th, 2010 at 8:27pm:

Important? Aren't food and shelter some of the most important things? We happily let the free market deliver those.

The market is not free. It is controlled by govt checks and measures. These checks and measures along with sound economic policy ensure the majority have the means to satisfy food and shelter needs.

The welfare system has almost nothing to do with how food gets from the farm to the table. Contrast for example, water, sewage and raods with food and housing. That's what free means.

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