Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5
Send Topic Print
a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's (Read 46781 times)
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Feb 9th, 2010 at 7:52pm
 
I hope this gets through and ends up replacing the CPRS.



A message from Australian Greens Senator Christine Milne

Dear friend,

With your help, we could be on the point of achieving a breakthrough on climate action.

Last month we wrote to you about the Greens' proposal to break the political deadlock over the Rudd government's CPRS. We urged all parties to embrace Professor Garnaut's suggestion of a two year interim scheme with a fixed carbon price, no trading and no offsets.

I am very pleased to tell you today that we are now in constructive negotiations with the government around this proposal.

We need your help to build the momentum towards a positive result.

Our proposal is a building block for future climate action that's got real teeth. It gets Australia moving straight away in building a flourishing zero emissions economy.

By writing letters to newspapers, you can help us build the public momentum we will need to convince Mr Rudd's government and at least two more Senators to embrace this interim solution and get Australia moving.

We really want to bring these discussions to a successful conclusion and put a price on carbon emissions, but we need your help to keep the government at the table.

Please help us break the climate deadlock.

Many thanks,

Christine Milne

Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens.

PS: We know this solution isn't perfect, but, unlike the CPRS, there is no way it can hold back climate action. It can only help get Australia moving towards a zero carbon future.

By getting this issue onto the letters pages, you can help us break the CPRS deadlock
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #1 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 9:25pm
 
Why am I not surprised that you are on the Greens' mailing list?



Back to top
 

No one has the right not to be offended.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #2 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 9:30pm
 
Because I run a politics website?

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the topic?
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Darwin
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1037
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 5:06pm
 
Stuff the Greens. A CPRS could have been in the process of being set up now, with negotiations ongoing to raise the carbon price. This will do nothing because the Greens think that after the election they will have the BoP in the Senate and think Labor will come up with a new scheme they can approve. BS! The CPRS is all we got and all we will have!

The Greens are using the issue, the core reason supposedly for their existence, to play politics and garner more support. I hope no one votes for the idiots!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 9:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 10th, 2010 at 9:30pm:
Because I run a politics website?[/quot]

No. Do you think they addressed everyone as 'Dear friend'? Even

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the topic?



All the good that are produced by using energy from carbon have a price on them already. Then to put a price on carbon in a way that only speculators understand is stupid. It is interference by signalling 'use less energy'. That is the wrong signal. What we want is a different energy source.
The Greens, being a mere reactionary party, get almost everything wrong. This is another example.




Back to top
 

No one has the right not to be offended.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2010 at 10:09am
 
Quote:
The CPRS is all we got and all we will have!


I would much prefer a tax. Being so much simpler, it could be set up much faster. It also will not become an unmanageable dinosaur as soon as we try to come up with an international arrangement. We are going to be stuck with this thing for 50 years. We need to get it right.

Quote:
All the good that are produced by using energy from carbon have a price on them already.


Exactly. We are putting the price on the negative externality.

Quote:
Then to put a price on carbon in a way that only speculators understand is stupid.


I agree with this point also. We need to keep it simple and manageable.

Quote:
It is interference by signalling 'use less energy'. That is the wrong signal. What we want is a different energy source.


The signal should be "emit less GHG's". The government has a minimal role to play in choosing how it is done, only in choosing why it is done. Reducing energy consumption is one of the low hanging fruit.

Quote:
The Greens, being a mere reactionary party, get almost everything wrong. This is another example.


But a lot of your comments support their proposal over alternatives.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #6 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 8:50pm
 
This is before the Senate and they are asking people to contact local MPs and ask them to support it.

http://greensmps.org.au/ask-your-local-mp-work-immediate-levy-climate-polluters


Ask your local MP to work for an immediate levy on climate polluters
in

    * Climate Change & the Zero Carbon World

There is a real chance of serious action on the climate crisis before the coming election - if you help us by emailing your local member today and asking them to get behind good-faith negotiations with the Greens towards a simple carbon levy.

The Greens' deadlock-breaking proposal for a simple levy on Australia's biggest polluters - supported by key players from Professor Ross Garnaut to Greenpeace, from the Australian Council of Social Services (ACOSS) to the Climate Emergency Network - has a real prospect of passing the Senate and getting Australia moving on climate action. The government has started negotiations with the Greens towards the proposal, but they need a strong signal from Australians to speed up those negotiations and get a bill before the parliament next month.

You can help make this a reality by emailing your local MP and asking them to raise the proposal with their leader - the Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition - and tell them that their constituents are swinging behind the Greens' simple carbon levy proposal as a way to get climate action started swiftly in Australia. Ask them to get back to you with a response from their leader.

You can find the details of your local member by clicking on this link, plugging in your postcode and clicking through "Profile and Map" and "Current member details". Plug in their email address below and write them a personal email telling them the Greens' carbon levy is the way to go. (We are working on ways to make this process simpler, so thank you for making this effort.)

Together, we can get Australia moving towards real climate action before this year's election!
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Online


OzPolitic

Posts: 22218
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 9:15pm
 
If you are frightened of carbon...  then use a form of energy which doesn't produce any form of carbon by product.

But puhlease don't tax me for no bloody reason.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 10:06pm
 
The government needs to raise revenue somehow. Money doesn't grow on trees.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Online


OzPolitic

Posts: 22218
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #9 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 10:07pm
 
i already pay enough tax thanks.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #10 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 10:08pm
 
I don't want an increase in the total tax burden, just a change in how it is collected.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Online


OzPolitic

Posts: 22218
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #11 - Apr 13th, 2010 at 10:24pm
 
Well isn't this Greens idea an extra tax on an element for an obscure reason and won't it be essentially a tax on everything?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #12 - Apr 14th, 2010 at 7:17am
 
It will be a tax on GHG emissions. Taxing everything would defeat the purpose. The impact on retail prices will vary wildly.

Also, even if the Green's bill passes, the Greens will have no control over how the government responds with regard to the total tax burden.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Online


OzPolitic

Posts: 22218
Gender: male
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #13 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 12:45pm
 
can you think of anything that doesn't depend on emissions at some stage of their development or delivery?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 37560
I like fish
Re: a sensible proposal from the GREENS on GHG's
Reply #14 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 10:00pm
 
Not really.

Can you think of anything does doesn't depend on income?

If fossil fuels make up 0.1% of the cost of some items, and 50% of the cost of other items, then obviously a carbon tax will change consumer behaviour in a way that reduces emissions. Saying it is a tax on everything kind of misses the point. It is no more a tax on everything than income tax is a tax on everything.

It will also change many of the steps in the manufacturing process, not just the end consumer choices.

Whatever reduction in emissions you hope to achieve, a carbon tax is the best mechanism to achieve them from an economic perspective.
Back to top
 

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5
Send Topic Print