Australian Politics Forum - Talibaan government ready for hand-over

freediver

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #15 - Jan 5^th, 2010 at 4:34pm

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Where on earth did you get this piece of propagandous nonsense from? Very few people in Afghanistan or outside?

Outside. By the time the war started, only two other nations on earth even recognised them as the government. I expect the locals would have recognised the authority of the local warlord, depending on where they lived of course.

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The people in Afghanistan overwhelmingly supported them, and still do.

Who did they vote for?

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It is not too surprising that a regime based upon ignorant misunderstanding, and misinterpretation of real Islamic principles, such as the Taliban, would seek support from the ignorant and poorly educated, and seek to keep them ignorant and poorly educated.
What is surprising is that people who should be neither, would ever actually support them, or act as apologists for them.

As far as I know Abu supports education for women as part of his Islamic ideology, yet even he will support people like the taliban who through acid in the face of young female students to send a strong message about women's rights. It seems if it is a choice between democracy and something even more backwards than Islam, he prefers backwards. Fortunately the majority of Afghans know better, as they have actual experience of the taliban.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #16 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 9:40am

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Outside...

Means little. It's quite obvious that few, if any, nations would ever recognise an Islamic government, since they seek to destroy Islam, and recognising the legitimacy of it as a ruling system would go against everything they stand for.

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I expect the locals would have recognised the authority of the local warlord, depending on where they lived of course.

There were few warlords left, the Talibaan had wiped most of them out. Sadly you lot have brought them back. And then you speak as if you're anti-Warlord.

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Who did they vote for?

Voting might be the only acceptable form of attaining power to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.

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yet even he will support people like the taliban

I do not support them, and when they were in power I challenged and debated their supporters just as much as I challenge and debate the supporters of Saudi Arabia or any other wayward Muslim country today. I don't know why you can't get over this.

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who through acid in the face of young female students to send a strong message about women's rights.

Can you show me an example of where the Talibaan through [sic] acid in the face of a young female student??

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It seems if it is a choice between democracy and something even more backwards than Islam, he prefers backwards.

Nope I support neither. The claim that these are the only two choices is just plain wrong.

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It seems if it is a choice between democracy and something even more backwards than Islam, he prefers backwards.

So why is it they receive the overwhelming support of the people?? Why is it that the world's greatest superpowers combined cannot defeat them?? You need to answer these questions to yourself before you continue peddling this tripe fd, cos what you're saying just doesn't make a lot of sense.

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over Reply #17 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 10:39am Quote: Sadly you lot have brought them back. Who is "you lot"?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #18 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 12:57pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 9:40am:

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Outside...

Means little. It's quite obvious that few, if any, nations would ever recognise an Islamic government, since they seek to destroy Islam, and recognising the legitimacy of it as a ruling system would go against everything they stand for.

Well there is Saudi Arabia and Iran.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over Reply #19 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:15pm I said Islamic government, not Shi'a republic or Arabian monarchy.
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over Reply #20 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:20pm jordan484 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 10:39am: Quote: Sadly you lot have brought them back. Who is "you lot"?
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over Reply #21 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:35pm abu_rashid wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:15pm: I said Islamic government, not Shi'a republic or Arabian monarchy. That's Islamic Republic and Islamic monarchy... Both consider themselves Islamic government... Both are recognised internationally.
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mozzaok

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #22 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 5:49pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:35pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 2:15pm:

I said Islamic government, not Shi'a republic or Arabian monarchy.

That's Islamic Republic and Islamic monarchy... Both consider themselves Islamic government... Both are recognised internationally.

Well I certainly hope for his sake that he was not belittling other muslims to unworthy kuffars, they have a punishment for that in Islam.
I wonder if the exceedingly high moral code they profess to aspire to would reguire they confess such crimes against Islam to their local mullah?

Mind you, if I were a muslim I would be pretty unhappy at the thought of the Iranian despotic ayatollahs, or the Saudi royals as being the "ideal" image of an Islamic government to show the world what muslims are capable of when allowed to set their own agendae.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #23 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 7:15pm

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That's Islamic Republic and Islamic monarchy... Both consider themselves Islamic government... Both are recognised internationally.

The Saudi monarchy feigns being Islamic, because of its position as host of the Hajj, that's about it. There is very little Islamic about it at all. It's a disgrace of a nation, which contradicts almost every single Islamic principle known.

Iran is as I said a Shi'a republic, since Shi'a are less than 10% of Muslims, it's hardly worth mentioning.

Either way both states clearly reject the concept of Islamic governance, ie. Caliphate. Arguing over what they claim about themselves in their titles is about as useful as arguing over whether the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is Democratic. Do you accept the DPRK as being an example of Democracy? Just because they proclaim so in their title?

Didn't think so...

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abu_rashid

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #24 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 7:19pm

Not surprising mozza couldn't let the opportunity escape him to embaress himself on this issue as well.

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Mind you, if I were a muslim I would be pretty unhappy at the thought of the Iranian despotic ayatollahs, or the Saudi royals as being the "ideal" image of an Islamic government to show the world what muslims are capable of when allowed to set their own agendae.

There's centuries upon centuries of history showing us the "ideal" image of what Islamic governance is about.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over Reply #25 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 7:23pm abu_rashid wrote on Jan 6^th, 2010 at 7:15pm: since Shi'a are less than 10% of Muslims, it's hardly worth mentioning. If only the West could embrace minorities with such open, welcoming, non-discriminatory hearts.
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freediver

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #26 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 9:57pm

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Means little. It's quite obvious that few, if any, nations would ever recognise an Islamic government, since they seek to destroy Islam, and recognising the legitimacy of it as a ruling system would go against everything they stand for.

I thought you said they weren't Islamic? Plenty of other countries dominated by Muslims refused to even acknowledge them. Plenty that had no interest in the matter refused. Are you now saying that the whole world is conspiring against Islam?

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Voting might be the only acceptable form of attaining power to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.

You seem to be missing the point Abu. You are the one claiming popular support for them, not me. It appears that you equate popular support with how many people will stand up and oppose them when faced with a lynching. To me, voting is the only acceptable form of gauging popular support. How about you? Do you prefer more subtle techniques that allow you to ignore every inconvenient fact as a creation of the grand anti Islam conspiracy?

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Can you show me an example of where the Talibaan through [sic] acid in the face of a young female student??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing

According to a Rand Corporation commentary, hundreds of women in Pakistan, Kashmir and Afghanistan have been blinded or maimed "when acid was thrown on their unveiled faces by male fanatics who considered them improperly dressed".[20] Attacks or threats of attacks on women who failed to wear hijab or were otherwise "immodestly dressed" have been reported in other countries as well.[21][22][23][24] In Afghanistan in November 2008, extremists also targeted women (schoolgirls) in acid attacks for attending school. During the Taliban's rule, girls were banned from school.[25]

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So why is it they receive the overwhelming support of the people??

You keep saying that, just not in the same sentence as the word 'vote'.

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Why is it that the world's greatest superpowers combined cannot defeat them??

It depends what you mean by defeat. They have no standing army and cannot defend their land. All they can do is hide among civilians and hope that the enemy will shy away from collateral damage. If our army did that in the face of invasion then claimed victory I don't think anyone would take them seriously. I guess it works differently for Muslims.

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Do you accept the DPRK as being an example of Democracy?

Do you accept that the taliban got 'overwhelming support' down the barrel of a gun, rather than at the polls?

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mozzaok

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #27 - Jan 6^th, 2010 at 10:23pm

Anybody who dismisses out of hand, the level of popular support that the Taliban receives, does so from a dangerous position of ignorance.

Now the points that FD makes about the Taliban garnering support down the barrel of a gun may have a fair degree of validity, but we simply cannot try and understand Afghani politics through eyes used only to western values, for the same rules just don't apply in a land like Afghanistan.
The historical significance of being a people at the crossroads of asia and europe has seen the Afghanis fighting off foreign occupying troops for centuries, and the choice between any local, vs any occupying force, will rarely go against the locals, even if they would be the last choice amongst the locals, they still will be considered preferable to foreigners, by most people, most often.

The best we can hope to do is see an environment provided where decent afghanis who are not Islamist extremist nutbags are given the chance to offer a reliable alternative regime that the people could have grow used to, so they would have a choice other than invader or extremist.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #28 - Jan 7^th, 2010 at 12:23am

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The historical significance of being a people at the crossroads of asia and europe has seen the Afghanis fighting off foreign occupying troops for centuries

Ummm do you actually know where Afghanistan is?? Sure you don't mean Turkey? Grin

Mozza, you'd really do yourself more of a service by not contributing. You've quite obviously got no idea what you're on about.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Talibaan government ready for hand-over
Reply #29 - Jan 7^th, 2010 at 12:35am

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I thought you said they weren't Islamic?

That's right. And in no way does my other statement contradict that. If you're still unsure re-read it.

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Plenty of other countries dominated by Muslims refused to even acknowledge them.

Again means little. As I've demonstrated plenty of times here, all of those countries are ruled by colonialist-installed puppets. So it's not all that surprising. And it's quite likely Saudi Arabia and Pakistan only maintained ties with them at the behest of the U.S to act as a means of trying to infiltrate them. When the order came, both promptly withdrew their diplomatic ties.

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You are the one claiming popular support for them, not me. It appears that you equate popular support with how many people will stand up and oppose them when faced with a lynching.

Nope, how many people are willing to sacrifice their lives for them, by harbouring and assisting them.

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According to a Rand Corporation commentary, hundreds of women in Pakistan, Kashmir and Afghanistan have been blinded or maimed "when acid was thrown on their unveiled faces by male fanatics who considered them improperly dressed".[20] Attacks or threats of attacks on women who failed to wear hijab or were otherwise "immodestly dressed" have been reported in other countries as well.[21][22][23][24] In Afghanistan in November 2008, extremists also targeted women (schoolgirls) in acid attacks for attending school. During the Taliban's rule, girls were banned from school.[25]

Women in Afghanistan have had acid thrown on them, sometimes on schoolgirls, the Taliban's rule banned girls from going to school, therefore the Taliban must've thrown acid on girls. Nice logic Grin

Are you for real fd?? Don't you have any fear of appearing like an absolute goose when you post this stuff?

Why don't you just do the honourable thing and say "You're right, I haven't actually found any evidence for that, I just said it because it sounded good for my argument"??

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It depends what you mean by defeat. They have no standing army and cannot defend their land. All they can do is hide among civilians and hope that the enemy will shy away from collateral damage.

33 out of 34 provinces... yeh they're hiding amongst civilians Grin

The U.S do not even dare go into most of the places that the Talibaan have control over. And they need another 30,000 troops just to maintain their presence there...

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Do you accept that the taliban got 'overwhelming support' down the barrel of a gun, rather than at the polls?

I think you missed the point. The DPRK example was to highlight how ridiculous it is to call Saudi Arabia or Iran Islamic States merely based on their titular claims. It's nothing to do with actually classing something as democracy. Get with the program.

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