Australian Politics Forum - Henry Mencken quote on religion

freediver

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Henry Mencken quote on religion
Dec 29^th, 2009 at 7:16pm

Jordan has this on his signature at the moment.

Quote:

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth."
-- Henry Mencken

Who thinks religion is fundamentally opposed to honesty and the truth? Is this quote taken out of context? It seems odd that someone would claim to hold honesty and the truth in veneration in the same sentence as that claim.

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muso

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #1 - Jan 1^st, 2010 at 7:50pm

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2009 at 7:16pm:

Jordan has this on his signature at the moment.

Quote:

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth."
-- Henry Mencken

Who thinks religion is fundamentally opposed to honesty and the truth? Is this quote taken out of context? It seems odd that someone would claim to hold honesty and the truth in veneration in the same sentence as that claim.

Islam is a religion. Does that change anything?
/agent provocateur mode off

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Amadd

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #2 - Jan 1^st, 2010 at 11:41pm

Quote:

Islam is a religion. Does that change anything?
/agent provocateur mode off

Yeah right. Religions are just a political viewpoint and nothing else.
If anything, Islam teaches us that there is really no difference between politics and religion. No seperation of powers are involved, it's merely a collection of personal opinions.

- and collect they do. They advertise, they recruit, and they collect...all of the major failures do it.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #3 - Jan 1^st, 2010 at 11:49pm Ok, that's Islam, now let's take another religion at random ............ Scientology My answer as always : De Gustibus non est Disputandum
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mozzaok

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #4 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 7:42am

I think that most fair minded people would recognise that all religions share what could be called, "laissez faire" approach to the truth, when applied to their own teachings.

Few religions, or religious, have much difficulty pointing out the errors or inaccuracies of others, but maintain a strict out of bounds approach to their own dogma.

I have no problem at all with Mencken's quote, I find it to be succinct, and penetrating.

Now that FD would play talkback host, and choose to precis the words, as he did, to try and create an arguing point is a little more illustrative than the quote itself, if the whole realm of honesty is up for debate.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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freediver

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #5 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 7:55am

Saying that something is the word of God, or absolute truth, and saying that it is out of bounds, is not necessarily the same thing, though some people do get it mixed up. You just have a lot more difficulty mounting a criticism that is valid in their eyes, especially if you fail to understand the belief.

Just because an ideology holds something to be true that you disagree with, does not mean it is opposed to the truth. In fact, to claim it to be false without proof is no less irrational and no less dogmatic. It is actually more irrational, because you have no reason for holding these irrational beliefs, other than the fact that they are the opposite of what someone else believes, which is a rather petty position to take on something you regard as absolute truth.

Nor is taking a different path to the truth than the narrow approach espoused by science in any way in opposition to the truth.

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jordan484

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #6 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:26am

Quote:

[quote]
Who thinks religion is fundamentally opposed to honesty and the truth?

Ask Galileo

Quote:

Is this quote taken out of context?

Many quotes are. This one seems self explanatory wouldn't you think?

Quote:

It seems odd that someone would claim to hold honesty and the truth in veneration in the same sentence as that claim.

Why?

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47316 At my desk.	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #7 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:44am Have you ever heard "Thou shalt not lie"? Just about every religion has some version of it. Quote: Ask Galileo No religion is fundamentally opposed to Galileo's teachings.
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #8 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:46am Not now. That's not the point though is it?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47316 At my desk.	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #9 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:49am It never was. People were, but they were making the same philosophical mistake you are.
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #10 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:57am Sure. Nice semantics though.
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muso

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #11 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 10:24am

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 9:49am:

It never was. People were, but they were making the same philosophical mistake you are.

The Earth is fixed and the sun rotates around it. It's in the Bible, and that's why Galileo was charged for heresy. Can it be any clearer than that?

Psalms 93:1
Psalms 19:1-6
Joshua 10:12-14
1 Chronicles 16:30

It was also flat and was propped up by four pillars.
(For example : 1 Samuel 99, Job 9.6 )

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AncientBookUniverse.jpg (43 KB | 42 )

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muso

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #12 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 10:35am

Like most religions, the Raelian movement takes a very imaginative interpretation of the truth.

It's a bit like Bill Gunn when he said "There are no brothels in Queensland" (It was probably a question of terminology. He preferred the term Police recrational facilities)

The Raelian version of the truth is really cool though, regardless of what you think of them.

My first impression is that these guys have a great concept of the truth. Much more preferable to the Islamic version of truth.

(They are fully clothed by the way. That's the truth)

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47316 At my desk.	Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion Reply #13 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 10:48am http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+93%3A1&version=NIV Psalm 93:1 (New International Version) Psalm 93 1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.
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muso

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Re: Henry Mencken quote on religion
Reply #14 - Jan 2^nd, 2010 at 11:27am

Psalm 19

4 Their voice [b] goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,

5 which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.

Joshua 10

13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on [b] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a man. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel!

(The sun was obviously in the process of moving around the Earth and the Lord stopped it. )

OK - the New International Version doesn't represent the religion as it was at the time of Galileo. The interpretation has obviously changed to reflect modern knowledge.

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