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I now respect Islam (Read 13599 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #15 - Dec 15th, 2009 at 11:56pm
 
helian,

Quote:
Abu, as you know, ultimately Islam will tolerate no political or religious rivals...


Not true. Throughout all it's existence the Islamic Caliphate lived amongst rivals. Islam doesn't accept to be subservient to them, of course not. What proud and self-respecting ideology would??

Quote:
Hence the precarious religio-political schizophrenia of Turkish society.


Post-Ottoman Turkish society has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Not sure what on earth you're on about there. Do tell..

FD,

Quote:
Perhaps Abu can explain to his new friend whether a non-Muslim can lead a 'proper' muslim nation, and whether muslims and non-muslims are treated equally under the law in a 'proper' muslim nation.


The common misconceptions thread is there in the Islamic forum for anyone to gain insight into those kinds of issues. Where authentic Islamic positions are detailed. Unlike your little wiki, where nothing but out of context hatred is posted. Honestly I don't know why you bother, I doubt anyone besides Sprint, Yadda et al. would take it seriously.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #16 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:40am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Dec 15th, 2009 at 11:56pm:
helian,

Quote:
Abu, as you know, ultimately Islam will tolerate no political or religious rivals...


Not true. Throughout all it's existence the Islamic Caliphate lived amongst rivals. Islam doesn't accept to be subservient to them, of course not. What proud and self-respecting ideology would??

Co-existing in peace only when there were no serious rivals... Non-proselytising religious ideologies do not seek conflict and confrontation with political systems. They may, however, be proud and self-respecting.

abu_rashid wrote on Dec 15th, 2009 at 11:56pm:
Quote:
Hence the precarious religio-political schizophrenia of Turkish society.


Post-Ottoman Turkish society has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Not sure what on earth you're on about there. Do tell..

Secularism requires the Turkish army to guarantee its rule in Turkey. It was Attaturk's wish to return Turkey to Europe and ensure that political Islam did not seriously threaten secular rule. For decades there has been a stand-off between Islamism and secular government.
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athos
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #17 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 9:53am
 
mozzaok wrote on Dec 15th, 2009 at 6:33am:
Well Ephestion, while you may take personal comfort in the idea that your position is noble, in fact it merely means that you have decided to stop fighting about whose invisible friend is the best, and that is a very sensible approach to take, as neither can prove the real worth of their god of choice.

To think that all criticism of Islam, or Christianity is based on this personal competitiveness is not always true, for very often it is an individual act or specific interpretation which comes into question, and these can be examined and argued from the more objective perspective of how they fit in with our standards of decency and morality.

For people like myself who believe gods and religions to be man made concepts, then obviously all the inherent flaws and weaknesses we see mankind party to are reflected in the beliefs of religious people.

As a favourite writer of mine once wrote;

"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." ---
Robert A. Heinlein

So if we could see a god invented who was not supposed to be omniscient, or omnipotent, then we could see the chance of finding a god who could grow, and learn from his mistakes, rather than having them enshrined in sacred text.


Well Mozzaok at first I thought not to say anything but you definitely deserve an answer.
First of all this man belongs to the greatest civilisation that ever existed in Europe it is Ancient Greek Civilisation and that’s enough to make him nobleman in compression with you. His civilisation also supposed to make you civilised because your barbaric ancestors took everything for granted from them.
Probably Ephepstion wanted to explain to your limited rational materialistic mind that there is also something beyond pleasure of happiness.
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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
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Yadda
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #18 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 10:00am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Dec 15th, 2009 at 10:01pm:
Not necessarily helian.

Islamic law for instance has provision for co-existence with political entities that do not oppress or hinder Muslims from their religion.
So I can't see it becoming a problem, if Australia and other Western nations remain true to their secular values. However if they become consumed by the nutcases as we see plenty of examples of here (eg. Yadda, Sprint, FD), then yes there is a possibility of a conflict. The peddlers of the self-fulfilling prophecy that will give them the opportunity to attack Islam and Muslims.




Just more 'snake' words, from abu.
i.e.
Just more ISLAMIC deception, designed to 'Don't scare the horses'.



Non-moslems need to understand that ISLAM does NOT tolerate other political systems - and that is what ISLAM effectively is, a political system, masquerading as a religion.

Also, abu has not revealed here [above], the seditious attitude which is actively promoted within all ISLAMIC communities in the 'West', that 'forcing' moslems to obey the secular laws [of a secular state], is presented to all 'good' moslems as 'oppressing moslems' and 'hindering Muslims from their religion'.

And thereby, moslems promote the idea within all ISLAMIC communities in the 'West' in which they live, that it is non-moslems who are oppressing moslems - THEREFORE - it is perfectly acceptable for ALL good moslems to 'struggle' [JIHAD] against and undermine the secular state in which they live.


I wish that people could understand your snaky position as well as i do abu.

Dictionary,
snaky = =
1 long and sinuous like a snake.
2 cold and cunning.






If you are a non-moslem, please preface all declarations coming from moslems with the understanding, that,
the Koran is the ultimate source of authority for every 'good' moslem,

in following the dictates of his 'religion'.


Peaceful ISLAM?? It is a lie!

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

Koran 9.123


An ISLAM, which is tolerant of others?? It is a lie!

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."

Koran 3.85



Nothing about ISLAM is tolerant, nothing about ISLAM is 'moderate'.

Everywhere ISLAM has been empowered, ISLAM reveals itself to be an intolerant, deceptive, violent, political tyranny.


Deception and lies,
is the only moral constant with which ISLAM, 'interfaces' with 'unbelievers', who ARE NOT yet within ISLAM's power, and influence.

Whereas, all who ARE within ISLAM's power, and influence, suffer degrees of brutality and violence and falsehood, which ISLAM employs to maintain its authority over 'believers'.



Please study ISLAM, and its doctrines,
for yourself,
,

Today, with the WWW, this is not difficult to do,

Islam 101

http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/








Inwardly [to its own], ISLAMIC doctrines promote hatred of, and violence towards non-moslems,
while outwardly, always denying this,

ISLAM is deception, ISLAM is lies.

...
25 May 2007
"......Al-Faisal spent years travelling the UK preaching racial hatred urging his audience to kill Jews, Hindus and Westerners.
......But throughout the trial he denied he had intended to incite people to violence.
......he argued his talks came from the Koran and if he was on trial so was the holy text."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6692243.stm




ISLAM is a false religion, for a false people.





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #19 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 11:18am
 
Yadda, you're a nutcase. The vast majority of Muslims have no problem living in secular societies, and have done for years. What you seem to have a problem with is Muslims exercising their rights within those societies. So if Jews for instance lobby to have an entire suburb surrounded with a fence, so they can carry out their Sabbath duties, that's fine, no problem there. Yet if Muslims for instance lobbied for a permit to build a school... oh no, that's Muslims trying to enforce Shari'ah on us. Your words and your claims stand out as a testament to your irrational beliefs.
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jordan484
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #20 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:01pm
 
Quote:
So if Jews for instance lobby to have an entire suburb surrounded with a fence, so they can carry out their Sabbath duties, that's fine, no problem there.

This isn't fine at all.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #21 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:10pm
 
I think you'll find Yadda considers it quite kosher.

Also according to Australia's secular and democratic principles there should be no problem with it. If they lobby for it, and it's approved, then more power to them.

The only people I can imagine who'd have a problem with it are xenophobic hate filled bigots that want to strip everyone of their culture/beliefs/morals and turn them into hedonistic aimless cultureless zombies who just roam around wasting their lives on drugs, alcohol or sex addictions.
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jordan484
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #22 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:15pm
 
Well, I don't see myself as what you describe. But I still have a problem with that sort of division. Not appropriate in a community like ours.

And quit being so arrogant. Religious people DO NOT have the monopoly on culture/values/morals/beliefs. In fact, all evidence points to the opposite. Look at you.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #23 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:19pm
 

sure, yaddas a nutcase. 

but abus an islamic nutcase. The sort that are intolerant, violent to their own ends and find our society unacceptable.

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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #24 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
Quote:
The sort that are intolerant, violent to their own ends and find our society unacceptable.


I find Australian society quite acceptable, and unlike yourself I'm actually an Australian.  Cheesy
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jordan484
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #25 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 1:00pm
 
Did you feel all dirty saying that abu? You may have to go wash the westerner off yourself now.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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Yadda
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #26 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 1:09pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Dec 16th, 2009 at 11:18am:
Yadda, you're a nutcase.
The vast majority of Muslims have no problem living in secular societies
, and have done for years. What you seem to have a problem with is Muslims exercising their rights within those societies. So if Jews for instance lobby to have an entire suburb surrounded with a fence, so they can carry out their Sabbath duties, that's fine, no problem there. Yet if Muslims for instance lobbied for a permit to build a school... oh no, that's Muslims trying to enforce Shari'ah on us. Your words and your claims stand out as a testament to your irrational beliefs.




That is a naked lie abu.

You know it.

And i know it.




Two points, which are truthful,

#1,
Any moslem who enjoys living within, and being a part of, a secular society, by their own actions is effectively declaring to the moslem community -
"I AM NOT A REAL MOSLEM, I AM RENOUNCING ISLAM."



THE KORAN, commands...

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."

Koran 5.51
i.e. any moslem, and who makes sincere friendships with 'unbelievers', IS an unbeliever [become an apostate themselves, and worthy of death].



"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you......"

Koran 3.118


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"

Koran 4.144


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."

Koran 47.008
v. 8-11
This last verse from the Koran, is an open invitation to 'good' moslems, to kill apostates [those who leave ISLAM].


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."

Koran 2.089




#2,
Clearly ISLAM itself defines, that those moslems, who claim to be devout moslems, who yet, claim to be tolerant of secular society, and secular laws,
ARE LIARS, AND DECEIVERS.

i.e.
They are just being good moslems,
.....in deceiving the dumb, the naive, 'unbelievers'.iSomething said here [by devout moslems], about 'moslems' living un-ISLAMIC lifestyles!

ISLAM demands total intolerance of the
Jahiliyya
[un-ISLAMIC] lifestyle - among moslems.

This is a pronouncement against
Jahiliyya
, from an notable ISLAMIC scholar,

"THE RIGHT TO JUDGE"
"It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya which are current in the world or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system........"

by SAYYID QUTB
http://www.islamworld.net/justice.html

"....Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist;"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyya#Jahiliyya_in_contemporary_society



But you know all of this, don't you abu ???

But never a word from you abu.

Q.
Why not abu ???

Is it,
#1, because you are not a
real
moslem abu, because you are unaware of these facts of ISLAMIC doctrine ???

Or is the reason for you 'non-disclosure' in this forum, because,
#2, you know these things, very well ???

......and you are just being a
good
moslem, seeking to deceive your declared enemy.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #27 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 1:26pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Dec 16th, 2009 at 11:18am:

Yadda, you're a nutcase.





No i am not abu.

But you are a liar, when you know that you are speaking to the uninformed, about ISLAM.




You are full of fear abu.

That is why you feel the need for lies, and deception.

Because you feel, you know, that your god, Allah, cannot protect you from the TRUTH.         

Cool

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #28 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 1:50pm
 

Ephestion,

You said,
"I now respect Islam"
.


You sound like a humanist!          Shocked

Don't you have any other 'motherhood' statements for us ???

Don't you have any more platitudes for us ???



"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann




Ephestion,

I have a question for you.

Do you believe that peoples opinions, should be based in knowledge ???

OR,do you believe that the opinions of ignorant people are just as valuable, as the opinions of those who are knowledgeable?

OR, doesn't it matter, as long as we are all 'tolerant'?          Smiley





"I now respect Islam"


What,
do you respect about ISLAM ???



p.s.
God forgive you.

Indeed, God forgive us all.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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jordan484
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Re: I now respect Islam
Reply #29 - Dec 16th, 2009 at 1:53pm
 
Humanists don't respect Islam. They respect the right of those to believe in Islam. But not in Islam itself.
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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