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Swine Flu (Read 2017 times)
muso
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Swine Flu
Oct 6th, 2009 at 8:21am
 
mantra wrote on Oct 5th, 2009 at 6:26pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 5th, 2009 at 8:10am:
turnbulls a loser by going towards rudds unrealistic dreaming

the issue at hand is the globe is overpopulated by about 100%
aussie could vapourise overnight, the world would not notice it


Turnbull has no choice but to appear to believe in man made climate change. It's political suicide otherwise. The Libs are in complete disarray at present because they're hanging onto their old ideology and it's not popular.

As far as global overpopulation - maybe there are some furtive plans to reduce it. Swine flu comes to mind and the spruiking of the vaccine is very suspicious. There have been some reports on the debilitating side affects of the mass swine flu vaccination  eg. Guillain-Barre, or ascending paralysis.


Mantra - I'm surprised at you latching on to conspiracy theories like that. All flu vaccines are contraindicated for Guillain-Barre syndrome.

The risk has been compared to that of eating a hot-dog..... or a tomato.

Tomatoes contain four times the level of methanol than aspartame sweetened soft-drinks.

Apricot juice contains cyanide - so do brussel sprouts !!
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mantra
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #1 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:18am
 
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 8:21am:
Mantra - I'm surprised at you latching on to conspiracy theories like that. All flu vaccines are contraindicated for Guillain-Barre syndrome.

The risk has been compared to that of eating a hot-dog..... or a tomato.

Tomatoes contain four times the level of methanol than aspartame sweetened soft-drinks.

Apricot juice contains cyanide - so do brussel sprouts !!


Yes I suppose it does sound as though I'm a conspironaut, but we come fourth globally in the number of infections which seems strange seeing as we're so far from North America. The vaccine has only just been invented and Rudd has bought 21 million doses and has every doctor spruiking how essential it is.

Trials only began in early August. It's all happening too quickly. We're being used as guinea pigs.


Quote:
The Federal Government has thrown its support behind CSL, and has ordered 21 million doses of the flu vaccine they are working on.

Prof Petrovsky says CSL has a "monopoly" over vaccine distribution in Australia despite the fact they are using older, inferior technology. CSL says it is the only one with the resources to get tried and tested vaccines out quickly and on a large scale.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25817436-5006301,00.html
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skippy
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #2 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:33am
 
mantra wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:18am:
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 8:21am:
Mantra - I'm surprised at you latching on to conspiracy theories like that. All flu vaccines are contraindicated for Guillain-Barre syndrome.

The risk has been compared to that of eating a hot-dog..... or a tomato.

Tomatoes contain four times the level of methanol than aspartame sweetened soft-drinks.

Apricot juice contains cyanide - so do brussel sprouts !!


Yes I suppose it does sound as though I'm a conspironaut, but we come fourth globally in the number of infections which seems strange seeing as we're so far from North America. The vaccine has only just been invented and Rudd has bought 21 million doses and has every doctor spruiking how essential it is.

Trials only began in early August. It's all happening too quickly. We're being used as guinea pigs.


Quote:
The Federal Government has thrown its support behind CSL, and has ordered 21 million doses of the flu vaccine they are working on.

Prof Petrovsky says CSL has a "monopoly" over vaccine distribution in Australia despite the fact they are using older, inferior technology. CSL says it is the only one with the resources to get tried and tested vaccines out quickly and on a large scale.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25817436-5006301,00.html


I have to agree with mantra, its strange how its SOOOOOOOOOO important for us all to be vaccinated when swine flu has been around for months and also seems to have a lot less cases than a few months ago.
The other point is swine flu in most cases has caused little more than a cold, why is it sooooooo urgent?
I'm not going to bother with a shot, is anyone here going to have one?
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muso
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #3 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:33am
 
mantra wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:18am:
Yes I suppose it does sound as though I'm a conspironaut, but we come fourth globally in the number of infections which seems strange seeing as we're so far from North America. The vaccine has only just been invented and Rudd has bought 21 million doses and has every doctor spruiking how essential it is.


Considering that we were just starting our annual flu season during the growth period, and the US were just coming into Summer (or the end of their flu season), that's hardly surprising.

Apart from that, the number of globally reported cases is very far from the truth. It's underestimated by at least 1000 to 1.  The WHO admits this too. the majority of cases are not serious.

From what I have read, Australia was a lot more diligent about reporting than most other countries. You can tell that (in part) from the much lower morbidity in Australia. Swine flu deaths are much more likely to be reported than Swine Flu infections. In places like Mexico, there are far fewer infections reported that did not result in death, so the stats are next to useless.
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muso
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #4 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:36am
 
Quote:
The other point is swine flu in most cases has caused little more than a cold, why is it sooooooo urgent?
I'm not going to bother with a shot, is anyone here going to have one?


I'll have my usual flu vaccination in early March next year - just prior to the Flu season. That will most probably include H1N1. I've had flu vaccinations for the last 10 years or so, and have never contracted a serious flu since then.  However there are no guarantees.

As far as Swine Flu goes, kids are most at risk:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090903/swine-flu-deaths-in-kids
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mantra
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #5 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:48am
 
Quote:
[quote author=mantra link=1254656390/0#6 date=1254788316]
I have to agree with mantra, its strange how its SOOOOOOOOOO important for us all to be vaccinated when swine flu has been around for months and also seems to have a lot less cases than a few months ago.
The other point is swine flu in most cases has caused little more than a cold, why is it sooooooo urgent?
I'm not going to bother with a shot, is anyone here going to have one?


Nope - no shot for me. I heard some poor bloke on the radio saying he had the vaccine because he was so busy at work and didn't want to get sick. He ended up with Guillain-Barre syndrome and it's in God's hands whether he ever goes back to work.

Quote:
From what I have read, Australia was a lot more diligent about reporting than most other countries. You can tell that (in part) from the much lower morbidity in Australia. Swine flu deaths are much more likely to be reported than Swine Flu infections. In places like Mexico, there are there are far fewer infections reported that did not result in death, so the stats are next to useless.


That might be true Muso - but Australia is the only country buying such a huge amount of the vaccine, although the US is going to do similar but not on the same scale. It looks more like a stimulus boost for CSL than any genuine concern for our welfare.  Each vial "immunises" at least 3 people and has be used within 12 hours - otherwise it "goes off" and this could easily result in cross infection or contamination.
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mantra
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #6 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:54am
 
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:36am:
I'll have my usual flu vaccination in early March next year - just prior to the Flu season. That will most probably include H1N1. I've had flu vaccinations for the last 10 years or so, and have never contracted a serious flu since then.  However there are no guarantees.

As far as Swine Flu goes, kids are most at risk:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090903/swine-flu-deaths-in-kids


Muso - there are probably more people who haven't had a flu vaccination and never had a serious flu than those who have had the vaccine.

Why would you give a healthy adult or child a flu vaccination?
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #7 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:54am
 

swine flus the same as all the others.

i don't get a flu vaccination, have had the flu once.
it was no fun at all
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skippy
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #8 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 11:08am
 
Quote:
As far as Swine Flu goes, kids are most at risk


Thats right, but kids under ten cannot get the vaccine.
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muso
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #9 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:48pm
 
mantra wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:54am:
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:36am:
I'll have my usual flu vaccination in early March next year - just prior to the Flu season. That will most probably include H1N1. I've had flu vaccinations for the last 10 years or so, and have never contracted a serious flu since then.  However there are no guarantees.

As far as Swine Flu goes, kids are most at risk:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090903/swine-flu-deaths-in-kids


Muso - there are probably more people who haven't had a flu vaccination and never had a serious flu than those who have had the vaccine.

Why would you give a healthy adult or child a flu vaccination?


Well flu vaccinations certainly work, if that's what you mean. On the other hand, ordering 21 million flu shots seems a bit overboard on the first blush.

Probably  a good proportion of the population already has immunity. Over 60's for sure, and those who have already had Swine Flu, and that probably numbers a few million people.

It's all a question of risk. At my place of work, it's paid by the company. Previous to the vaccinations, we had epidemics where a large proportion of the workplace had it.  In today's industry, the labour force has very little spare capacity. Of course, the vaccinations are not compulsary, but the take-up rate was about 70%.

Health professionals also get flu vaccinations, but  that's on a compulsary basis.

Apart from that, if we get a more virulent form of Swine Flu, we might need that stockpile yet. Remember reading what happened with Spanish Flu? - two waves - The first was like a normal flu. The second infected 500 million people and killed about 5% of the global population or about 100 million people at the time.

The question is - does the risk of having the vaccine (About the same risk as dying from eating a hotdog) justify the risk of the death of a significant proportion of the population - or not?

What do you think?
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #10 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:50pm
 
I think all this flu stuff is totally off-topic.
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muso
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #11 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:57pm
 
Grendel wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:50pm:
I think all this flu stuff is totally off-topic.


LOL - I think you're right.
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mantra
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #12 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 3:15pm
 
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:48pm:
The question is - does the risk of having the vaccine (About the same risk as dying from eating a hotdog) justify the risk of the death of a significant proportion of the population - or not?

What do you think?


Are you sure it's about the same risk as dying from eating a hot dog Muso? If so - I'm never going to eat another hot dog again.

Quote:
I think all this flu stuff is totally off-topic.


Yes it's my fault Grendel - but it's a bit more interesting than Turnbull and his new "green" stance. If we were to believe him - he would be trying to get on the good side of the Greens, although even with his proposed amendments to the ETS - he doesn't come anywhere actually offering a solution.

It's good to see Muso admitting there are flaws in the ALP's ETS - Turnbull's proposals are even more flawed.
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #13 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 4:10pm
 

agreeing with any of rudds populisms is a flaw
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muso
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Re: Turnbull and climate change
Reply #14 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 7:59am
 
mantra wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 3:15pm:
muso wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 2:48pm:
The question is - does the risk of having the vaccine (About the same risk as dying from eating a hotdog) justify the risk of the death of a significant proportion of the population - or not?

What do you think?


Are you sure it's about the same risk as dying from eating a hot dog Muso? If so - I'm never going to eat another hot dog again.

Quote:
I think all this flu stuff is totally off-topic.


Yes it's my fault Grendel - but it's a bit more interesting than Turnbull and his new "green" stance. If we were to believe him - he would be trying to get on the good side of the Greens, although even with his proposed amendments to the ETS - he doesn't come anywhere actually offering a solution.

It's good to see Muso admitting there are flaws in the ALP's ETS - Turnbull's proposals are even more flawed.



Mantra,

In that case, never drive. It has a much greater risk by several magnitudes.  Grin

Yes - the risk of choking and dying as a result of eating a hotdog is about the same risk as developing complications from a flu vaccine - swine flu or otherwise. That goes with the proviso that all patients are screened for contraindications, which include pre-existing conditions including a history of Guillain-Barre Syndrome.

Here's a link to the pre-vaccination protocol:

http://gpdownso.apexhost.net.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MmGwu6kx6Q0%3D&tabid=1...

Re the Emissions Trading scheme, both major parties are putting in a half-hearted effort at the moment. As a centrist, I never take sides on a partisan basis.
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