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Capital punishment (Read 5981 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #30 - Oct 5th, 2009 at 8:55pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 5th, 2009 at 8:41pm:
Come on is there anyone still gullible enough to believe putting Obama into power was anything other than a PR stunt to win back a bit of international support??

Yer righto Grin

You know he was really born in Africa and JFK had his birth certificate redone to have him born in Hawaii... And Johnson found out about it and conspired with the Mafia, Castro, the CIA and the secret service to have him assassinated...

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Soren
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #31 - Oct 5th, 2009 at 8:55pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 5th, 2009 at 8:41pm:
Come on is there anyone still gullible enough to believe putting Obama into power was anything other than a PR stunt to win back a bit of international support??



Who did the 'putting in power'?

(Careful, trick question)



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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #32 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:28pm
 
I am sure that there is confusion amoung you citizen-slaves in what should be a blindingly obvious Truth.

Capital punishment is simply a societally-sponsered murder. It is far more malevolent and malicious than any personal murder act could possibly be.

There is simply no Truth-based legitimacy to the unjust punishment of criminals, let alone "capital punishment".

You cowardly fools bay for blood. You can only embrace your desire for death and slaughter via societally-sponsered murders, that allow you to keep your insane illusions of decency.

There is not a single rational reason why society should have a death penalty, and those who masquerade reason via mindless societal rhetoric are suffering from such mental dysfunction that they are literally mentally unhinged.
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Soren
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #33 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:33pm
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:28pm:
I am sure that there is confusion amoung you citizen-slaves in what should be a blindingly obvious Truth.

Capital punishment is simply a societally-sponsered murder. It is far more malevolent and malicious than any personal murder act could possibly be.

There is simply no Truth-based legitimacy to the unjust punishment of criminals, let alone "capital punishment".

You cowardly fools bay for blood. You can only embrace your desire for death and slaughter via societally-sponsered murders, that allow you to keep your insane illusions of decency.

There is not a single rational reason why society should have a death penalty, and those who masquerade reason via mindless societal rhetoric are suffering from such mental dysfunction that they are literally mentally unhinged.


Let me guess - you are a second year B. Arts student?

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mozzaok
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #34 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 11:02pm
 
"There is not a single rational reason why society should have a death penalty, and those who masquerade reason via mindless societal rhetoric are suffering from such mental dysfunction that they are literally mentally unhinged."-STT-(Seems Totally Trippin)

True, there is not a single reason, there are myriad reasons, for a death penalty for certain crimes, even someone like myself, who is opposed to the death penalty, and always has, and always will be, can see that there are very many people, who commit crimes, so heinous that a society could fairly require they be put to death, to protect themselves from such monsters.

Psychopaths, Violent rapists, Child rapists and killers, are people whose very natures precludes that they should ever be allowed to rejoin society, so to kill them would be better for the society, than guarding and supporting them for decades.
Revenge, or retribution is also something that society can also draw some comfort from, and I could reel off a list of names of people whose premature departure from this life would not only not cause me any concern, it would probably make me feel that some rudimentary justice has been served.

Unfortunately, as you touched on in your original post, mistakes can be, and are made, and I pointed out just two examples from my own lifetime, where sick, slick pollies abused the system for their own political gain.
It is that fact which causes me to recoil from actually endorsing it for our own society, even though I think that society would be better for it were it ever be able to be implemented in a totally fair and responsible manner, free from bureaucratic malevolence or incompetence.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #35 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 11:11pm
 
we think alike mozzaok.
for some crimes, the offenders have opted to be out of our society.

find a nicely deserted island, leave them there.
they can make their own society.
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Soren
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #36 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 11:24pm
 
Anyone who commits a gross and hineous crime thereby denounces and disowns the rules and laws of the society he lives in. He puts himselves outside the protection of his society (outlaws himself). The death penalty was originally just that - you were outside the law, and anyone who killed you was not violating the sovereign laws. This is why even today criminal cases are always known as 'criminal v sovereign'. The criminal acts against the laws in so far as h violates anyone under the protection of those laws.

So no such crimninal can then ask for the proptection of the very laws he blatently, knowingly violated. He can't be outside the law as perpetrator but then ask for the protection of the laws when he is caught - by the agents of those laws - and tried for disregarding and violating them.





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abu_rashid
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #37 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 5:46am
 
Quote:
Who did the 'putting in power'?


helian already said, JFK.

Come on, we all know America is a true democracy, so of course it was the American people who put him into power.... wasn't it?? I mean America wouldn't do things like we saw during their puppet government's election in Afghanistan would they??? Only in a more professional [and therefore undetectable] manner??
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abu_rashid  
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #38 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 8:21am
 

soren - the criminal is still a human, as are we.
we are not beasts of a jungle.
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #39 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 1:50pm
 
[Reply to inferior soren

Anyone who commits a gross and hineous crime thereby denounces and disowns the rules and laws of the society he lives in.

These laws and rules are unjust and have no Truth-based legitimacy. You have not even proven that society has any right or business inventing these rules.

You betray your total mis-understanding of humanity. To you, murder is a natural default.

He puts himselves outside the protection of his society (outlaws himself).

1. Well, again you make the mistake. He does not "put himself" anywhere. Your society malevolently and unjustly decides to murder its victim-creation. You then shift the blame of your societal actions by deluding yourself that the criminal "put himself" to death.

2. Why do you presume that the default without societal law shoud be murder?

The death penalty was originally just that - you were outside the law, and anyone who killed you was not violating the sovereign laws.

Why should they kill? How can you say murder is wrong if you yourself can murder via the state?

So no such crimninal can then ask for the proptection of the very laws he blatently, knowingly violated.

1. Yes he can.
2. You are arguing illogically.
3. Your argument is based on your own insecurity and emotion.
4. He is not asking for protection. THe suggestion was that he is being unjustly murdered. Is murder a default? Yes or no?

He can't be outside the law as perpetrator but then ask for the protection of the laws when he is caught - by the agents of those laws - and tried for disregarding and violating them.

Does not matter. You cannot murder him without proving that you are also a murderer.

By your logic, since society murders millions of humans, it must be millions of times more deserving of murder-reactions than the criminal is. Therefore, by your logic, the criminal would be justified in his murders in the first place.
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #40 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 1:54pm
 
Reply to mozzaok

True, there is not a single reason, there are myriad reasons, for a death penalty for certain crimes

There is no legitimate logical reason. You fail to even list one attemptat justifying the unjustifiable.

, even someone like myself, who is opposed to the death penalty, and always has, and always will be,

You are not a real person. You are pro-death penalty, and you are just not real to yourself.

Psychopaths, Violent rapists, Child rapists and killers, are people whose very natures precludes that they should ever be allowed to rejoin society, so to kill them would be better for the society, than guarding and supporting them for decades.


Why should society even be considered?
How can you suggest society is good/has legal right etc if society commits more murders than any criminal ever possibly could?
If society, with all of its resources and power, can lower itself to the level of killing (from your POV), then how can the state be better than the criminal?
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Calanen
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #41 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 7:56pm
 
Quote:
True, there is not a single reason, there are myriad reasons, for a death penalty for certain crimes


Sometimes the only just penalty is death.

But only sometimes.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Soren
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #42 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 8:32pm
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Oct 7th, 2009 at 1:50pm:
[Reply to inferior soren
Anyone who commits a gross and hineous crime thereby denounces and disowns the rules and laws of the society he lives in.

These laws and rules are unjust and have no Truth-based legitimacy. You have not even proven that society has any right or business inventing these rules.

You betray your total mis-understanding of humanity. To you, murder is a natural default.

He puts himselves outside the protection of his society (outlaws himself).

1. Well, again you make the mistake. He does not "put himself" anywhere. Your society malevolently and unjustly decides to murder its victim-creation. You then shift the blame of your societal actions by deluding yourself that the criminal "put himself" to death.

2. Why do you presume that the default without societal law shoud be murder?

The death penalty was originally just that - you were outside the law, and anyone who killed you was not violating the sovereign laws.

Why should they kill? How can you say murder is wrong if you yourself can murder via the state?

So no such crimninal can then ask for the proptection of the very laws he blatently, knowingly violated.

1. Yes he can.
2. You are arguing illogically.
3. Your argument is based on your own insecurity and emotion.
4. He is not asking for protection. THe suggestion was that he is being unjustly murdered. Is murder a default? Yes or no?

He can't be outside the law as perpetrator but then ask for the protection of the laws when he is caught - by the agents of those laws - and tried for disregarding and violating them.

Does not matter. You cannot murder him without proving that you are also a murderer.

By your logic, since society murders millions of humans, it must be millions of times more deserving of murder-reactions than the criminal is. Therefore, by your logic, the criminal would be justified in his murders in the first place.



Sorry, I oversestimated you with the 2nd year BArts quip.

Why consider society? You are a product of it. Without it you would have no language to express your opposition. Without it you would not have a computer to log onto a forum. You would not have money, medicine, schooling, books to read (on morbid subjects), internet to prowl. YOU ARE society. Alas, your posts are dripping with adolescent self-doubt and torment. You need to find someone to love. I hope your trauma is only in your imagiantion and that you will grow out of it.

Have a shower every day, have a hair cut, clean your teeth, be gald you are alive. Don't open every conversation with your fascination with serial killers. Climb a mountain. Test yourrself against yourself.
Just snap out of the crazy guy phase.


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« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2009 at 11:32pm by Soren »  
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #43 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 10:10pm
 

calanen - sure, some crimes indicate the offender is "unhumane"

by their actions they have forfeitted their right to be in our society.
for all time.

life imprisonment, banish to an isolated inhospitable area.
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #44 - Oct 8th, 2009 at 7:08am
 
Calanen wrote on Oct 7th, 2009 at 7:56pm:
Quote:
True, there is not a single reason, there are myriad reasons, for a death penalty for certain crimes


Sometimes the only just penalty is death.

But only sometimes.


Incorrect. There can NEVER be justice in societally-sponsered murder under the guise of a "death penalty".

The idea that society has the right to outright murder its own create victim is insane.

Of course, the murderer would also have total justification for his murders, because society commits murder on a scale millions of times greater than any of its criminal scape-goat creations ever possibly could.

IF murder is wrong, it cannot be selective.
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