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Capital punishment (Read 5982 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Capital punishment
Sep 16th, 2009 at 10:48am
 

i'm against it, this is one of the reasons why.



Quote:
A US inmate was left waiting in the worst possible case of limbo today after executioners spent more than two hours trying to find a vein in which to inject a lethal dose.

Romell Broom was sentenced to death in an Ohio jail for the rape and murder of 14-year-old girl Tryna Middleton in Cleveland in 1984.

The state of Ohio reintroduced the death penalty in 1999, and Broom today became the first inmate since that date to have his execution stayed by the governor.

Another attempt to take Broom’s life will be made in a week.

Onlookers claim Broom appeared to be sobbing after one of many attempts by the execution team to access his veins.

At one stage, he even tried to help them himself.

After more than two hours of injections, Broom’s lawyer wrote to the Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice to ask for a reprieve for his client, saying any further attempts to kill Broom “would be cruel and unusual punishment”........



http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26080901-952,00.html

other reasons are :

1/ i don't believe we have the "right" to take a life.
2. it is not effective, ie, those crimes are still committed.
3/ at times, it makes the criminal enter a "nothing to lose" mindset very rapidly.
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #1 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 11:09am
 
Quote:
1/ i don't believe we have the "right" to take a life.


Whilst I tend to agree with this point sprint. The problem is that those wronged have "rights" do they not?

Quote:
2. it is not effective, ie, those crimes are still committed.


By itself alone, no, it is not an effective deterrent. But as part of a broad system of crime prevention I think it can be. Just with the case of the U.S for instance, they have the death penalty, but they also have these ridiculous freedom of expression laws which allow people to effectively promote a lifestyle of guns, killing, rape, drugs etc. and market it as some kind of enviable lifestyle for youth. So any deterrent the death penalty would have is effectively counter-acted by this utter stupidity.

And the sad things is, the same idiots crying about how much crime there is, are probably the same ones most vocal about freedom of speech.

Quote:
3/ at times, it makes the criminal enter a "nothing to lose" mindset very rapidly.


He would only enter that mindset after being sentenced to death, one would assume.
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #2 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 11:33am
 

Abu - it is hard to say if anyone has the "right" to take a life.


some countries do not have freedom of speech and have the death penalty.
That year after year there are those to be executed in those countries tends to show capital punishment is not an effective deterrant.


supposing rape is a crime for capital punishment, a rapist may think "may as well kill him/her now, i have nothing to lose."
So the rape victim is now murdered
If a crim is in a seige situation where he has already killed, he may as well take as many with him as he can on the way out.


It's nice to not always be adverserial with you.
I quite like you
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #3 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 11:50am
 
Quote:
some countries do not have freedom of speech and have the death penalty.
That year after year there are those to be executed in those countries tends to show capital punishment is not an effective deterrant.


Which countries are you talking about?

Freedom of speech in general is not a problem, but when it lets people promote a culture of murder, drugs, rape etc. then it'd be pretty irresponsible wouldn't it?

Quote:
supposing rape is a crime for capital punishment, a rapist may think "may as well kill him/her now, i have nothing to lose."
So the rape victim is now murdered
If a crim is in a seige situation where he has already killed, he may as well take as many with him as he can on the way out.


Same could be said about arming police officers. It will lead criminals to have the same siege mentality when cornered by police, knowing they'll most likely be shot and killed, and will therefore take more out with them...

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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #4 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 12:02pm
 
Some interesting facts for you sprint:

Of the top 10 countries for murder rates per capita, only 2 have the death penalty, and one of them hasn't used it since 1988...

Whilst of the 10 countries with the lowest recorded murder rates per capita, 4 have the death penalty and 6 no.

(nationmaster).
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #5 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 1:40pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16th, 2009 at 11:09am:
[quote]

The problem is that those wronged have "rights" do they not?


Whilst I agree with most of your points, I find this right to vengeance to be abhorrent.  The execution of a murderer will not bring back the victim. It's almost as bad as a kind of sadistic right to inflict pain in retribution or the right to a pound of flesh (as in the Merchant of Venice).

It will possibly protect society from the murderer re-offending, but execution is a very final thing. There is no room for reprieve for somebody who was wrongfully convicted.

I've seen the phrase "bring closure for the family of the victim" , but if the person is locked away from society, that would also bring closure.

In my own view, everybody has potential, including the potential to reform themselves - and capital punishment has no place in a civilised society.
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #6 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 2:10pm
 
I understand perfectly your sentiments muso, since I used to share them.

But at the end of the day, nothing can be claimed to be more just than an eye for an eye.
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #7 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 2:44pm
 
How very timely was that quote on the other thread.

Quote:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin.
But
you have neglected the more important matters of the law
—justice,
mercy
and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.


Matthew 23:23



An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #8 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 3:07pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16th, 2009 at 2:10pm:
I understand perfectly your sentiments muso, since I used to share them.

But at the end of the day, nothing can be claimed to be more just than an eye for an eye.

Unless you pluck out the wrong man's eye.
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #9 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 4:30pm
 
Why don't they give him vest and blow him up?

Veins can be scraped from the ceiling later.


Edit: Weins changed to veins (Was supposed to do this in a first place)
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« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2009 at 12:33pm by Happy »  
 
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #10 - Sep 16th, 2009 at 10:20pm
 
Grin Very funny Happy. I'm supposing you meant veins, but maybe his weins too.

I'm against capital punishment. People deserve the chance to be able to clear their name, nomatter how long it might take.
By killing them, society also loses the chance to be able to study the reason for the crime and how a similar crime might be prevented in the future.

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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #11 - Sep 17th, 2009 at 12:08am
 
Removing the death penalty diminishes the personhood of both the victim and the perpetrator. The former's is devalued in an obvious way - he is treated implicitly as not warranting the weight of justice equal to his loss.

The latters' personhood is devalued by automatically diminishing his capacity to be treated as a fully responsible, therefore equal, member of society. In effect an excuse is made for his inferiority.

By extension, all members of such a society are treated as potentially diminished in so far as none could be held fully responsible for his actions, even if he were to commit a hineous crime.

Paradoxically, removing the death penalty is a form of soft totalitarianism.


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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #12 - Sep 19th, 2009 at 2:20pm
 
I strongly support the death penalty. People who kill, rape, molest and commit treason are unfit for life. If you are unfit for life, then your life must be taken away from you. From an economic point of view, what is the point of keeping a person locked up for life? It is just a massive waste of tax payers' money. All those millions could've been spent on training thousands of doctors and other professionals, building infrastructure, hospitals, schools etc. It is simply a  crime to spend tax payers' money on locking up criminals for long periods of time. Criminals are parasites who deserve to die.
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“Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.”&&&&Reichsfuhrer Adolf Hitler der Grosse Deutsche Reich
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Re: Capital punishment
Reply #13 - Sep 19th, 2009 at 4:45pm
 
Quote:
also have these ridiculous freedom of expression laws which allow people to effectively promote a lifestyle of guns, killing, rape, drugs etc. and market it as some kind of enviable lifestyle for youth.


Ridiculous freedom of expression laws.  Well there you go. Far better for the USA if we get a tyrannical cleric in to enforce Islam's vision of some brutal beheadings, a bit of jihad against infidels, with some child marriage on the side.

And of course, no freedom of expression. For anyone, except tyrannical clerics.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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DNA tests - half of all deathrow inmates are innocent
Reply #14 - Oct 2nd, 2009 at 7:19pm
 
Death Penalty kills the innocent as well as guilty.

DNA tests tell us HALF OF ALL DEATH ROW INMATES ARE INNOCENT

In 1997, Illinois halted executions when DNA testing found 52% of their deathrow inmates were innocent.

The people who were exhonorated are: Rolando Cruz, Alejandro Hernandez, Verneal Jimerson, Dennis Williams, Joseph Burrows, Gary Gauger, Carl Lawson, Perry Cobb, Darby Tillis.

In Texas, the following people were found innocent AFTER execution. Texas still executes prisoners.

Frank Basil McFarland was executed for a rape/murder despite multiple inconsistencies in the state’s case, altered evidence, purchased and coerced testimony, and suppressed evidence of guilt.  After execcution, he was found innocent by DNA testing.

Troy Farris was convicted of the murder of a police officer.  DNA proved he was innocent. Gov. George W Bush deny clemency. Troy Farris was execcuted.

Jerry Lee Hogue was convicted of an arson/murder. Another individual later admited to the crime, but was denied further investigation by Gov. Bush. Mr Hogue was execcuted.

David Stoker was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of three witnesses, who later recanted their testimony. Doubts aside, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Stoker.

Richard Wayne Jones, was convicted of a murder despite strong evidence that his sister’s boyfriend had committed it.  DNA testing was denied by Gov. Bush, and approved his execution.

Willie Williams and Joseph Nichols both shot at their murder victim, but only one hit him.  In order to execute both, Texas argued that each had killed the man; in one trial, the state argued that Mr. Williams had shot the victim and Mr. Nichols had missed, and in the next trial, the state argued that Mr. Nichols had shot the victim and Mr. Williams had missed.  Both were convicted of capital murder.  Mr. Williams was executed by Gov. Bush; Mr. Nichols is still on death row.

James Lee Beathard was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of the admitted murderer, Gene Hathorn. Still, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Beathard, though he was innovent.

Gary Graham was convicted of capital murder on the basis of one eyewitness’s testimony.  Despite DNA evidence that provees otherwise, Mr. Graham was executed by Gov. Bush.

David Wayne Spence was convicted of capital murder although no physical evidence linked him to the crime and almost every witness against him admitted that his or her testimony had been purchased or coerced.  DNA evidence says that another man had committed the triple murder.  Nevertheless, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Spence.

Cost

A study released on March 6, 2008 found that taxpayers have paid at least $37.2 million for each of execution both innocent and guilty. Can you believe tax payers are willing to pay that much money to kill an innocent person?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/CostsDPMaryland.pdf
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