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Worm disection purpose (Read 5884 times)
Seer Travis Truman
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Worm disection purpose
Sep 5th, 2009 at 12:07am
 
What are worms disections?

According to society, these are experiments that school students carry out for educational purposes.

What is the Forbidden Truth here?

Society imprisons tortured victim-creations whom are children in a school prison. Although society has an obligation to educate, that in no way changes the Truth that the school functions as a prison-camp.
It then uses peer pressure, threats, psychological pressure, and directly fascistly orders the imprisoned child-slaves to literally torture a worm to death.

What is a poison container?
You need to understand what a poison container is to read this lecture.
That is located at the website-link on the bottom of the post, and scroll down the first page.

1. The torturing of a worm to death in no way teaches anyone anything of any use, nor anything that cannot be taught in text-books.

2. A larger, dead animals could easily be used.

3. The primary goal is to teach the children that :-
a. Animals and insects are lesser life forms, when in fact they
are Superior to humans because they do not suffer from Truth
rejection and mental dysfunction.
b. That it is societally acceptable to torture and kill so-called
lesser life and to target these lives for poison-container usage.

4. The lesson is structured in such a way that the worm must be pinned down, observed, controlled and allowed to die slowly in agony.

5. To have all the child-slaves conform and do as the group does (ie to attack independance and individuality)

6. To learn to obey orders even if they personally may feel they do not
want to.

This is one proof of how immoral and malevolent society is, and how it attempts to reflect their graven mental image on the next generation.

This is the Truth.
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Amadd
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #1 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 1:27am
 
Interesting. I always thought that worms don't feel anything. Do they?

I was of the opinion that when you throw a crustacian into a boiling pot, they don't feel anything. The scream that you hear is just the air escaping from the shell.
As far as I know, these type of animals don't have the nerve endings to feel pain in the way that we know it.



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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #2 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:33am
 

I would imagine worms feel pain.
they writhe when cut in two.
many people say plants feel pain !!

when things are done physically it is completely different to learning it in a book.
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #3 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:55am
 
Amadd wrote on Sep 5th, 2009 at 1:27am:
Interesting. I always thought that worms don't feel anything. Do they?

I was of the opinion that when you throw a crustacian into a boiling pot, they don't feel anything. The scream that you hear is just the air escaping from the shell.
As far as I know, these type of animals don't have the nerve endings to feel pain in the way that we know it.


These are all societal lies. All sentinent creatures feel pain, because their systems are the product of evolution from creatures that also had this essential ability.

Earthworms have touch, light, vibration and chemical receptors, and a simply nurvous system. They react. They feel or experiance a negative.

Even if the didn't they still act like they do, and this likeness in enough for the poison-container effect to occur.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #4 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 8:42pm
 
Quote:
What is the Forbidden Truth here?


I think you have struck upon a taboo here:

when in fact they are Superior to humans

Quote:
A larger, dead animals could easily be used.


How would dissecting a dead dog teach students what a worm looks like when you cut it open? Wouldn't that just upset even more social taboos? Also, the refrigeration costs would be pretty extreme.

Quote:
The lesson is structured in such a way that the worm must be pinned down, observed, controlled and allowed to die slowly in agony.


I doubt you would fail if you killed it first. In fact, from my memory of this experiment you would probably do a lot better. They are slippery little buggers.

Quote:
All sentinent creatures feel pain, because their systems are the product of evolution from creatures that also had this essential ability.


What creature did worms evolve from, and how do you know they had the ability? If we can't tell whether worms feel pain today, how on earth could we tell whether a now extinct organism did? Furthermore, how can you be sure the trait was kept?

Ever been fishing Seer?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #5 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 9:09pm
 
It can easily be done with computers now, virtual dissection programs would be easy enough.

While it may not be the most important thing in the world, if we do not need to kill worms, we may as well not do so.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #6 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 9:53pm
 
I have my doubts about the value of virtual dissection. You might as well get rid of the science lab altogether and make it a big computer game. There is nothing sacred about a corpse and we should not dimish the value of our children's education because of the small minority who think there is. The whole point of science is to help people unbderstand the natural world, not how to do well in a crappy computer game. Hands on experience is crucial to this.

One of the biggest problems with modern people's understanding of nature is the sanitised views people get. This has real implications that actually makes the suffering of animals worse. How can a person contribute meaningfully to our society's interaction with the natural world if all the know of it is from The Lion King? How can we expect children to fathom the vast beauty and cruelty of billions of worms getting violently slaughtered every day if we also teach them that they must be shielded from the death of a single specimen? What happens when the next generation of university biology students squeel when they touch a real worm for the first time in their life? At what stage of their career would a biologist get to see what an animal actually looks like?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #7 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 10:32pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:33am:
I would imagine worms feel pain.
they writhe when cut in two.
many people say plants feel pain !!


when things are done physically it is completely different to learning it in a book.




A question directed to Seer Travis Truman....


Worms feel pain, but,

STT, doesn't your, and our, very existence contribute to the suffering of many sentient creatures?

What do you eat?
.....red meat, fish, even plants?

What do you wear?
.....leather shoes?

How do you house yourself?
.....the use of pesticides, or even a simple swatter, to control insects.

How do you travel?
.....what about all of the bugs, being squished on your vehicle windscreen?
.....even if you do not own a personal vehicle, what about the same consequence, from the use of public transport, which you demand, and expect, to be made available for your use.


All of these processes, contribute to, or are the cause, of the suffering of many sentient creatures.

And we all make these same demands, and sacrifices, upon the earth and its creatures, for the benefit of our comfortable existence.

Should we consciously all desist from these activities?



I guess we could try to live a 'low maintenance' life?

But our being, alive, is a 'cost' to many other creatures.

But, aren't those creatures, and indeed ourselves, just fulfilling our natural existence?




To live, is to suffer.

Buddhism - 1st of The Four Noble Truths

Suffering arises from our desire/attachment.

Buddhism - 2nd of The Four Noble Truths



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:37pm
 
Reply to freediver

How would dissecting a dead dog teach students what a worm looks like when you cut it open? Wouldn't that just upset even more social taboos? Also, the refrigeration costs would be pretty extreme.

I am speaking more of animals that were already dead, to stop the murder of worms and other life forms.
While it would not teach them about a worm, it would teach them about anatomy.
What is the point of disecting a worm? Do you use worms anatomy in real life? NO! What the book says is sufficient.

The REAL reason what to teach you to torture and kill creatures society wrongly determines to be of lesser worth than humans.

I doubt you would fail if you killed it first. In fact, from my memory of this experiment you would probably do a lot better. They are slippery little buggers.

Then you admit that your school teaches humans to torture worms to death.

What creature did worms evolve from, and how do you know they had the ability? If we can't tell whether worms feel pain today, how on earth could we tell whether a now extinct organism did? Furthermore, how can you be sure the trait was kept?

Pain is so useful to survival. If a worm get injured, it reacts to the stimuli. While it may not be exactly like mammal pain, it is simular.

Ever been fishing Seer?

Fishing is another example of societally-sponsered murder and torture of Superior creatures.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2009 at 9:53pm:
I have my doubts about the value of virtual dissection. You might as well get rid of the science lab altogether and make it a big computer game.


Can you tell Me the importance of disecting a worm, when a book already shoes its anatomy? What possible legitimate use can there be in knowing how to disect a worm? Does a mechanic or a lawyer regulary disect worms? NO!

Face it : It is to teach you to torture and kill worms. It is to teach you society dictates this is what it allows you to do, should you desire to torture or murder.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #10 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 12:02am
 
Reply to Yadda

many people say plants feel pain !!

Unlikely. That is a moot point, however. You are trying to suggest that to torture or kill a worm may be acceptable if a plant feels pain also. This is false logic.

when things are done physically it is completely different to learning it in a book.

Well, there is no need to have any experiance in worm disection. What possible use is there in that?

STT, doesn't your, and our, very existence contribute to the suffering of many sentient creatures?

Yes, you could say that. There is a VERY important difference between the individual and society. I am not responsible for what society does nor decrees. As are you.

As a society, humans are responsible for the genocide and extinction of many other Superior races. Even the destruction of the environment, which continues today.

What do you eat? .....red meat, fish, even plants? What do you wear?
.....leather shoes?

Yes, I have all of these things. However, as an individual, I am not responsible. Society is responsible. To suggest otherwise is foolish.

To refuse to eat meat is NOT a pro-environmental action, but a self-harming Guilt Manifestation.

How do you house yourself?.....the use of pesticides, or even a simple swatter, to control insects. How do you travel? .....what about all of the bugs, being squished on your vehicle windscreen? .....even if you do not own a personal vehicle, what about the same consequence, from the use of public transport, which you demand, and expect, to be made available for your use.

I am not responsible for this. Society is. I have to use these things, because society put Me in that position. The difference is that these things are not INTENTIONAL and easily aviodable. They are something that happens in the course of My affairs.

I do not kill bugs etc unless they directly attack Me. There is nothing inherantly wrong with killing them, as long as it is honestly for a natural purpose, and on a personal level.

Society has no legitimate purpose to the worm disection orders, whereas catching a bus is not a purposeless not intenful action to kill worms, insect etc.

None of what you said matters. Your argument boils down to "If society make a unnecesary murder of one life form, we can justify that by making more of the same". Wrong.

All of these processes, contribute to, or are the cause, of the suffering of many sentient creatures. And we all make these same demands, and sacrifices, upon the earth and its creatures, for the benefit of our comfortable existence. Should we consciously all desist from these activities?

No. Society is responsible. Society must do everything it can that is in its power not to murder. Of course, there will always be some accidental deaths of insects and other animals. This can NEVER be used to attempt to justify insect or animal murders, though. Nor can it justify society teaching children that the decreed path of cathartic release and vengenace is animals and insects.

I guess we could try to live a 'low maintenance' life? But our being, alive, is a 'cost' to many other creatures. But, aren't those creatures, and indeed ourselves, just fulfilling our natural existence?

They are, humans are not. That said, no INDIVIDUAL human should ever go out of his way not to un-intentionally kill an insect, he should just not intentionally murder an animal/insect unless there is a distant personal need.

To live, is to suffer.

Buddhism - 1st of The Four Noble Truths

Suffering arises from our desire/attachment.

Buddhism - 2nd of The Four Noble Truths

Both these statements are lie-based, and made by Truth-hating and Truth-rejecting inferiors.

More information on animals can be found at www.Truthmedia.8k.com.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #11 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 1:21am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 12:02am:
Reply to Yadda

What do you eat? .....red meat, fish, even plants? What do you wear?
.....leather shoes?

Yes, I have all of these things. However, as an individual, I am not responsible. Society is responsible.
To suggest otherwise is foolish.




This sounds very much like something equivalent to a 'Nuremberg Defence', to me.


e.g.
'I was just a passenger on the train. I can't be held responsible for where the train was going, that is the responsibility of the train driver.'



OR,


'Yes, that is my gun. And yes, i pulled the trigger. But you can't blame me for the death of Mr Smith. You should blame the gun's manufacturer.'





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« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2009 at 1:35am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #12 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 2:09am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 5th, 2009 at 11:37pm:
Ever been fishing Seer?

Fishing is another example of societally-sponsered murder and torture of Superior creatures.





STT,

Why would you consider fish to be 'Superior creatures'?




++++++++++


from,

The Lucifer Principle - - by Howard BLOOM

MOTHER NATURE, THE BLOODY BI TCH

In 1580 Michel de Montaigne, inspired by the discovery of New World tribes untouched by Europe's latest complexities, initiated the idea of the "noble savage". Nearly two hundred years later, Jean-Jacques Rousseau popularised the concept when he published four works proclaiming that man is born an innocent wonder, filled with love and generosity, but that a Luciferian force ensnares him: modern civilisation. Rousseau claimed that without civilisation, humans would never Know hatred, prejudice, or cruelty.

Today, the Rousseauesque doctrine seems stronger than ever. Twentieth-century writers and scientists like Ashley Montagu, Claude Levi-Strauss (who hailed Rousseau as the "father of anthropology"), Erich Jantsch, David Barash, Richard Leakey, and Susan Sontag have reworked the notion to condemn current industrial civilisation. They have been joined by numerous feminist, environmentalist, and minority rights extremists. Even such August scientific bodies as the American Anthropological Association, the American Psychological Association, and the Peace and War Section of the American Sociological Association have joined the cause, absolving "natural man" of malevolence by endorsing "The Seville Statement," an international manifesto which declares that "violence is neither in our evolutionary legacy nor in our genes."

As a result, we are told almost daily that modern Western culture with its consumerism, its capitalism, its violent television shows, its blood-soaked films, and its nature-mangling technologies "programs" violence into the wide-eyed human mind. Our society is supposedly an incubator for everything that appals us. However, culture alone is not responsible for violence, cruelty, murder and war. Despite the Seville Statement's contentions, our biological legacy weaves evil into the substrate of even the most "unspoiled" society. What's more, organised battle is not restricted to humans. Ants make war and either massacre or enslave a rival swarm. Cichlid fish gang up and attack outsiders." Myxobacteria form "wolf packs" that corner and dismember prey. Groups of lizards pick on a formerly regal member of the clan who has become disfigured by the loss of his tail. Female bees chase an overage Queen through the corridors of the hive and lunge, biting over and over until she is dead. And even rival "super coalitions" of a half dozen male dolphins fight like street gangs, often inflicting serious injuries. Ants do not watch television. Fish seldom go to the movies. Myxobacteria, lizards, dolphins, and bees have not been "programmed" by Western culture.

.....By the early seventies, Jane Goodall had lived fourteen years among the wild chimpanzees of Tanzania's Gombe Reserve. She loved the chimps for their gentle ways, so different from the violence back home among humans. Yes, there were simian muggings, beatings, and rage, but the ultimate horror war was absent. Goodall published a landmark book on chimpanzee behaviour "In the Shadow of Man" a work that to some proved unequivocally that war was a human creation. After all, the creatures shown by genetic and immunological research to be our nearest cousins in the animal kingdom knew nothing of organised, wholesale violence.

Then, three years after Goodall's book was printed, a series of incidents occurred that horrified her. The tribe of chimps Goodall had been watching became quite large. Food was harder to find. Quarrels broke out. To relieve the pressure, the unit finally split into two separate tribes. One band stayed in the old home territory. The other left to carve out a new life in the forest to the south.

At first, the two groups lived in relative peace. Then the males from the larger band began to make trips south to the patch of land occupied by the splinter unit. The marauders' purpose was simple: to harass and ultimately kill the separatists. They beat their former friends mercilessly, breaking bones, opening massive wounds, and leaving the resultant cripples to die a slow and lingering death. When the raids were over, five males and one elderly female had been murdered. The separatist group had been destroyed; and its sexually active females and part of its territory had been annexed by the males of the band from the home turf. Goodall had discovered war among the chimpanzees, a discovery she had hoped she would never make.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Seer Travis Truman
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #13 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 9:45am
 
Reply to Yadda

This sounds very much like something equivalent to a 'Nuremberg Defence', to me.


THe individual is not responsible for his behaviour. The so-called "Nuremburg Defence" is simply another way society lies to you and convinces you that the individual is responsible. Societal leader do this because they KNOW they are responsible.

Nuremburg defence is not even applicable to basic needs. It is unreasonable to expact any individual to stop eating a full diet just because society has taken away his natural hunting/gathering food collection system.

Society wants you to feel the guilt instead of society, via a guilt manifestation. This is what society wants, it wants you to blame yourself and feel guilty. Guilt manifestations are a form of self-harm and are a lie-based, toxic, harmful and unnatural mind-state foistered upon some citizen-slaves by society.

"I was just a passenger on the train. I can't be held responsible for where the train was going, that is the responsibility of the train driver."

No. That would be the responsibility of society, because the train driver is orderer where and when to drive his train. If he refused, not only would he be victimised by his malevolent society, but he ould simply be replaced.

To suggest that the passenger is responsible for the movement of the train is ludicrous.

"Yes, that is my gun. And yes, i pulled the trigger. But you can't blame me for the death of Mr Smith. You should blame the gun's manufacturer."
If the gun malfunctioned, or was in issue to do with capability of gun, this holds perfectly.

If, for example, MrX deliberately shot someone with a gun. His target died. This is the co-called "murder" crime. MrX, however, had every right to express his True Reality via murder-actions, and is in no way open to legitimate moral critisism, let alone punitive punishment, from his malevolent society. To suggest that MrX is "bad" or at fault because he chose to murder with a gun is unfounded in Truth.

More information on crime can be found at www.Truthmedia.8k.com




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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #14 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:03am
 
in naReply to Yadda.

Why would you consider fish to be 'Superior creatures'?


All creatures are Superior to humans, Humans suffer from :

1. Inability to handle, recognise and embrace the Forbidden Truths of life. Humans live a lie. Animals live a life based on Truth and reality.

2. Humans suffer from brain dysfunction at the genetic level. Although humans have greater cognitive ability, they have poor mental health and stability, and a illness that means they cannot experiance Truth properly.

Below is an excerpt from a lie-based document. The title gives away that the human who wrote this is mentally deformed. Refering to nature as some sort of "mother" and then resorting to foul language to attemt to "rubbish" nature.

"violence is neither in our evolutionary legacy nor in our genes."


Well, that depends on what you mean by violence. War, genocide, mass-murder of animals, justice systems, and worm experiments are all unnatural, and have nothing to do with evolution. They very fact that these things do NOT exist in the natural world proves that humans did not naturally "evolve" them.

As a result, we are told almost daily that modern Western culture with its consumerism, its capitalism, its violent television shows, its blood-soaked films, and its nature-mangling technologies "programs" violence into the wide-eyed human mind.

ALL human societies are malevlent and lie-based. Capitalism, communism, socialism, it matters not. Society always tries to blame everything else, to shift the blame away from itself. To suggest that violent videos and shopping are responsbile for war and street violence is an outright lie. In fact, these videos are made about real-world scenarios that have already occured.

Our society is supposedly an incubator for everything that appals us. However, culture alone is not responsible for violence, cruelty, murder and war.

Society IS an incubator for these things. Culture / society is 100% responsible.

Despite the Seville Statement's contentions, our biological legacy weaves evil into the substrate of even the most "unspoiled" society.

There is NO SUCH THING as an "unspoiled" human society. Here, he resorts to inventing a ridiculous and mythical force called "evil" that does not exist in order to attempt to justify his statement.

What's more, organised battle is not restricted to humans. Ants make war and either massacre or enslave a rival swarm.

This is mearly their natural behaviour pattern. THese are not "wars", but a natural move to protect their extended territory, and feed the swarm. A big nest needs a big hunt, thats all. They do not attack for un-natural purposes, such as some ants having a different color (they MAY attack an ant of differet color, but not BECAUSE it has a diff colour).
Religion, cathartic release are other basic motifs for human wars, that have no parallell in nature.

Part II forthcoming....
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #15 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:20am
 
PART II :
"Cichlid fish gang up and attack outsiders. Myxobacteria form "wolf packs" that corner and dismember prey. Groups of lizards pick on a formerly regal member of the clan who has become disfigured by the loss of his tail. Female bees chase an overage Queen through the corridors of the hive and lunge, biting over and over until she is dead. And even rival "super coalitions" of a half dozen male dolphins fight like street gangs, often inflicting serious injuries."

These are just either mis-informations or natural behaviours. They are not wars. They are done for legitimate and logical reasons.

Example : The lizzard knows that once a tail is lost, the survivial of that lizard is thin. They therefore eat the lizard, to get the nutrients they need to survive. That is NOT compareable to war.

Ants do not watch television. ETC

Moot. None of these creatures ever launches genocidal wars because of mental malfunction. Their behavior is natural.

Yes, there were simian muggings, beatings, and rage,

These are natural actions, carried out for natural survivial reasons. They are NOTHING to do with the hman actions.

The mind-set is what I was telling you. Understand inferior? These superfically simular actions are NOT wars, and are NOT committed because of mental derangement as human actions are.

After all, the creatures shown by genetic and immunological research to be our nearest cousins in the animal kingdom knew nothing of organised, wholesale violence.

Apes etc do seem to have a slight inferiority to other species.  However, to compare apes to humans constant problems, mass-murder of children via abortion, mass-child abuse, war etc is a joke.

Food was harder to find. Quarrels broke out. To relieve the pressure, the unit finally split into two separate tribes.

So what? THis was just the need to survive. Food was scarce. Could they just starve? Of course not. "sharing" is a behaviour that is lie-based toxic and inferior. Animals do not share such inferiorities.

The marauders' purpose was simple: to harass and ultimately kill the separatists.

CAUGHT. You cannot say what the intent was. This is a lie. They are probably trying to get back to their land. Maybe food was scarce etc. Survivial reasons.

They beat their former friends mercilessly[/u], breaking bones, opening massive wounds, and leaving the resultant cripples to die a slow and lingering death.


This is not comparable to a human war event. What a lie. A few natural physical attacks is all.

Again we see that humans have lied about what happened. "Friends" do not exist in Truth. Only "allies". The idea that you are "friends" and owe something is a human and toxic one that has no legitimacy in Truth.

Goodall had discovered war among the chimpanzees, a discovery she had hoped she would never make.

What was not a war. You are being dishonest. "War" is just a label. "A rose by any other name....".

To suggest that the Nazi concentration camps, Jewish slaughter, Iraq attrocities, vietnam are the same as a few chimps fighting over bananas, territory and mates is unfounded and INSANE.

Also, the reason why humans murder on large scales was NEVER addressed in that lie-based and inferior document.

Try better next time.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #16 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:25am
 
Yadda, you have done nothing but charge into the attack to only trip over.

How about some defense? Or do you just ignore My points in your mind? I have revealed the Truth, that was challenged, and I answered. My points still remain.

Before anything new is posted, you ought to deal with the previous material I and others have posted, and its ramifications.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #17 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:35am
 
Travis, you keep insisting that there is no value in studying worms. Try reading a bit about the subject before you make such absurd generalisations:

http://www.wiley.com/bw/journal.asp?ref=1077-8306

Quote:
I am speaking more of animals that were already dead, to stop the murder of worms and other life forms.


So you think they should drag a piece of raodkill into the classroom so that students don't have to harm a worm? How about you give that a go at home, then get back to us on whether you still feel the same way?

Quote:
What is the point of disecting a worm? Do you use worms anatomy in real life? NO! What the book says is sufficient.


The point is to learn Travis. That is what school is for. Plus, students need exposure to the subjects they might go on to study at a tertiary level.

Quote:
The REAL reason what to teach you to torture and kill creatures society wrongly determines to be of lesser worth than humans.


This does not need to be taught, and you are wrong if you think that school is responsible for this. It is young children with no exposure to violence who inflict the worst cruelty on animals. Funnily enough, it is not just human young that do this. The young of all intelligent predators do it. You call it torture. I call it play.

Quote:
Then you admit that your school teaches humans to torture worms to death.


No. We cut them open to see what is inside.

Quote:
Pain is so useful to survival. If a worm get injured, it reacts to the stimuli. While it may not be exactly like mammal pain, it is simular.


How do you know it is similar? This is why biology classes are so important - they stop people just making stuff up like you are doing now.

Quote:
Fishing is another example of societally-sponsered murder and torture of Superior creatures.


It is about food and recreation Travis. Few fishermen go out of their way to inflict suffering. Almost all of them reduce it as much as possible.

Quote:
Can you tell Me the importance of disecting a worm


I already have. You just fail to appreciate the value of science, like a redneck complaining that their child should not have to learn a foreign language or calculus.

Quote:
when a book already shoes its anatomy?


A book shows you pictures travis. If it was the same thing, a book would do. Dissections are expensive. They are done because they are necessary.

Quote:
Does a mechanic or a lawyer regulary disect worms? NO!


Likewise lawyers do not need calculus, or relativity, or chemistry, or forign languages, or art, or manual arts, or sport. Are you suggesting that we make children choose to be lawyers in primary school and that they learn nothing but law from then on? You argument seems to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of education in our society. You are right that lawyers don't need to cut up worms. That is why lawyers don't cut up worms, School students do. Do you know any school students that are also lawyers?

Quote:
Yes, I have all of these things. However, as an individual, I am not responsible. Society is responsible. To suggest otherwise is foolish.


This is the great hypocrisy of the armchair animal libber. They take the approach of 'what I don't see doesn't matter'. They completely ignore the enourmous suffering inflicted on animals, which they directly fund through their consumer choices and carless actions. They pretend that their consumer choices don't matter. Like a rich person hiring an assassin to to the murder, they blame the butcher and the farmer whom they pay to do their dirty work, then wash their hands of the deed. But whenever they are forced to confront the reality of nature, the reality of our society, and the reality of their choices, they cry out for it to be hidden from their eyes. It is people like this that make the suffering of animals worse, because they seek not to prevent it, but to shield it from their delicate eyes, so that it can be carried out with mechanical efficiency and only profit for motive.

Quote:
I am not responsible for this. Society is. I have to use these things, because society put Me in that position.


No travis, not society, but nature. You are an animal. Killing other animals is what keeps you alive. This is another point of biology class - so that people like you can grow to understand and accept this.

Quote:
The difference is that these things are not INTENTIONAL and easily aviodable.


They are only avoidable if you live in deliberate ignorance, or take the view that paying someone else to do your mass murder somehow means you are not responsible.

Quote:
There is nothing inherantly wrong with killing them, as long as it is honestly for a natural purpose, and on a personal level.


But you just finished explaining how it is OK to pay someone else to do it for you, and that it is not your fault as an individual.

Quote:
Society has no legitimate purpose to the worm disection orders


No Travis, you just fail to see the purpose, just as you fail to grasp this entire issue.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #18 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:43am
 
Quote:
whereas catching a bus is not a purposeless not intenful action to kill worms, insect etc.


So it is OK to do the killing through carelessness, but not deliberately? It seems to me that you don't really care about the worms at all, you just care about people motivations, and because you don;t get the motivations of biologists to learn, you object to the learning process.

Quote:
No. Society is responsible. Society must do everything it can that is in its power not to murder.


So society must do what you are unwilling to do yourself? You just finished explaining how it is OK to kill through carelessness or to pay someone else to do the killing. How can you expect others to do what you cannot stomach yourself?

Quote:
Nor can it justify society teaching children that the decreed path of cathartic release and vengenace is animals and insects.


Travis, you completely misunderstand what biology class is about. You may have gotten some sick pleasure out of torturing the worm, but I assure you no-one else in your class did. Is it your own joy that frightens you so much?

Quote:
That said, no INDIVIDUAL human should ever go out of his way not to un-intentionally kill an insect, he should just not intentionally murder an animal/insect unless there is a distant personal need.


So humans must not try to avoid killing through carelessness, even when it occurs on a much larger scale, they must only avoid deliberate killing? Am I right that you have no concern for the victims at all?

Quote:
THe individual is not responsible for his behaviour.


Yes he is Travis.

Quote:
Society wants you to feel the guilt instead of society


Now you are contradicting yourself. First you said that society wants to train children to be killers, now you are saying that it wants to make them feel guilty. How can a society feel guilty without individuals feeling guilty?

Quote:
via a guilt manifestation. This is what society wants, it wants you to blame yourself and feel guilty. Guilt manifestations are a form of self-harm and are a lie-based, toxic, harmful and unnatural mind-state foistered upon some citizen-slaves by society.


No travis, that is what you are trying to do. You are trying to make us feel like we are doing something wrong.

Quote:
If, for example, MrX deliberately shot someone with a gun. His target died. This is the co-called "murder" crime. MrX, however, had every right to express his True Reality via murder-actions


Wait, so we can kill other humans, but not worms? Is that what you mean by worms being superior?

Quote:
These are just either mis-informations or natural behaviours. They are not wars. They are done for legitimate and logical reasons.


But Travis, people can come up with equally logical reasons for human wars. The first wars were about land, or food. One group of people would slaughter another group and take their food. Modern warfare is the same logic on a broader scale. It is not the reasoning that is different, only the skill.

Quote:
Example : The lizzard knows that once a tail is lost, the survivial of that lizard is thin.


It is kind of ironic that you posted this just after accusing someone else of misinformation. This is why biology class is so important travis.

Quote:
CAUGHT. You cannot say what the intent was.


Travis your whole argument is based on making up lies about the intent of other people.

Quote:
To suggest that the Nazi concentration camps, Jewish slaughter, Iraq attrocities, vietnam are the same as a few chimps fighting over bananas, territory and mates is unfounded and INSANE.


Perhaps you have an equally disdainful approach to the study of history as you do for the study of science. Are you familiar with the term lebensraum?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #19 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 11:51am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:25am:
Yadda, you have done nothing but charge into the attack to only trip over.

How about some defense? Or do you just ignore My points in your mind? I have revealed the Truth, that was challenged, and I answered. My points still remain.

Before anything new is posted, you ought to deal with the previous material I and others have posted, and its ramifications.





STT,

Sorry, but to me, you have not demonstrated any rational thought in your responses / assertions.

Your assertions seem to culminate in expressing the thought, that humans are the lowest form of life on this planet, due to their inherent insanity, irrationality?

In my estimation, you yourself, are a good demonstration of your point.             Roll Eyes



I asked..... Quote:
"Why would you consider fish to be 'Superior creatures'?"




You response is..... Quote:
"All creatures are Superior to humans, Humans suffer from :

1. Inability to handle, recognise and embrace the Forbidden Truths of life. Humans live a lie. Animals live a life based on Truth and reality.

2. Humans suffer from brain dysfunction at the genetic level. Although humans have greater cognitive ability, they have poor mental health and stability, and a illness that means they cannot experiance Truth properly."





So, your response is,

"All creatures are Superior to humans,"
   ????




AND,

And on documented animal violence in nature....

".....These are just either mis-informations or natural behaviours. They are not wars. They are done for legitimate and logical reasons.
.....None of these creatures ever launches genocidal wars because of mental malfunction. Their behavior is natural.
.....The mind-set is what I was telling you. Understand inferior? These superfically simular actions are NOT wars, and are NOT committed because of mental derangement as human actions are.
.....This is not comparable to a human war event. What a lie. A few natural physical attacks is all.
.....To suggest that the Nazi concentration camps, Jewish slaughter, Iraq attrocities, vietnam are the same as a few chimps fighting over bananas, territory and mates is unfounded and INSANE.
Also, the reason why humans murder on large scales was NEVER addressed in that lie-based and inferior document."







STT,

Biologists / naturalists have recognised that ALL creatures [not just humans] will tend to behave in violent and aberrant ways, if their population density increases beyond a 'tipping point' for that species.

Where creatures have naturally, or un-naturally, been constrained into a limited small territory, for their population, widespread examples of aberrant behaviour will be the result.

The example of Gaza comes to mind.

Mix the circumstances of a high density of people in Gaza, with the crazed philosophy of ISLAM, and you will ALWAYS have some very irrational, and violent behaviour on display.





People [human beings] can choose to constrain their own impulsives, and negative [unhelpful, irrational] behaviour, by thought and reason, by seeking rational [helpful, and rational] responses to [unfortunate, onerous] circumstances.

But the evidence we have before us, is that many humans instead, without a second thought, choose to act selfishly.

And the exhibition of selfish behaviour i would argue, IS A VERY NATURAL RESPONSE FOR ALL CREATURES, including mankind.



Quote:

We all know in our hearts, what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil.
[i.e. we all know in our hearts what 'The Golden Rule' is, and what its significance is, for us all,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity ]

But yet, when given a choice, we will often choose the act[ion] which will give ourselves the most PLEASURE - irrespective of whether that action is right or wrong.

Nothing strange in this.

It is in our nature, and in our genes, as the stain on Monica Lewinsky's dress can attest.

I think it would be fair to say that every one of us has acted selfishly, at some time, if we are honest.

I certainly have done things myself, which i am not proud of.
.....[It is no use asking, coz i won't tell!]

......Logically, [if we can ignore, evade, societies rules] we ourselves [within our own 'sphere of influence'] can become the absolute arbiters of what is good and evil.

So that which gives us pleasure, and materially enriches us [so as to enable us to gain yet more pleasure], IS GOOD.

And whatever stands in the way of us obtaining pleasure, logically, HAS TO BE BAD, AND 'EVIL'.


So if it feels good, do it!

After all, life is short, and it is a jungle out there.

THE PART THAT OUR PLEASURE PLAYS...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225668669/0#0i
THIRD FISHERMAN: Master, I marvel how the fishes live in the sea.
FIRST FISHERMAN: Why, as men do a-land: the great ones eat up the little ones.

William Shakespeare - Pericles act 2, sc. 1




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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #20 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 12:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:43am:
Quote:
If, for example, MrX deliberately shot someone with a gun. His target died. This is the co-called "murder" crime. MrX, however, had every right to express his True Reality via murder-actions


Wait, so we can kill other humans, but not worms? Is that what you mean by worms being superior?






FD,

LOL

Well done!        Wink






FD,

I despair for the young of today. [.....I am assuming that STT is a young person.]

The young today, have so much more real power, within their reach, than we ever did ['older' person here, approaching senility], but in my estimation, the young of today often exhibit so little 'common sense'.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #21 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 4:48pm
 
It will be interesting to see whether this is an internally consistent ideology, or if Travis is just making it all up as he goes along. My guess is the latter.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #22 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 5:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2009 at 4:48pm:
It will be interesting to see whether this is an internally consistent ideology, or if Travis is just making it all up as he goes along. My guess is the latter.

I suspect Travis is not a well man.  Grin
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #23 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 6:04pm
 
STT,

I came across this very simple definition of sanity, and insanity, and i think it could be instructive, to apply the test, of this very definition to ourselves....  ???



Quote:

Typically, an unrestrained  SANE  person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, society].

Typically, an unrestrained  INSANE  person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself and, or, others around him.









and on a lighter note...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Albert Einstein





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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #24 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 8:45pm
 
Quote:
Wait, so we can kill other humans, but not worms? Is that what you mean by worms being superior?


I can relate to what Travis is saying. He is just looking for equality amongst the lesser species. I've observed huge worms being gobbled carelessly by a ruthless rooster and they suffer terribly. You can see their bodies writhing in agony and it's worse when they're grubs because you can see their little eyes and mouth open and close as their bodies are ripped apart.

The point is we should try to lessen the pain these apparently insignificant creatures are forced to endure - if we can. Unfortunately for them they are part of the food chain too and unless we want to see larger creatures die from starvation - their suffering will never end.  
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #25 - Sep 6th, 2009 at 10:23pm
 
I wouldn't say one way or the other if they do or don't feel pain. Some studies suggest they do and some suggest they don't.
IMO, it doesn't make sense trying to relate to worms, crustaceans, etc. in human terms. They are of a very different makeup.
Just because a worm wriggles around when a hook is poked through it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's feeling pain. A skink's tail will wriggle around for quite a long while after being dropped, but that doesn't mean the tail is in pain.
Some crustaceans can also throw off limbs if they are trapped.

Here's part of an article concerning a Norweigian study:

Quote:
The government called for the study on pain, discomfort and stress in invertebrates to help in the planned revision of Norway's animal protection law. Invertebrates cover a range of creatures from insects and spiders to molluscs and crustaceans.

Farstad said most invertebrates, including lobsters and crabs boiled alive, do not feel pain because, unlike mammals, they do not have a big brain to read the signals.

Some more advanced kinds of insects, such as honeybees which display social behaviour and a capacity to learn and co-operate, deserve special care, she said. - Reuters


Still, if I were cookong up crustaceans, I'd prefer to at least put them in ice awhile before throwing them in the pot.





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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #26 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 12:42am
 
Reply to supreme inferior freediver

Travis, you keep insisting that there is no value in studying worms. Try reading a bit about the subject before you make such absurd generalisations


Your claim is the absurd one. There are biologists who did not disect worms at school. To suggest that worm disection is so important that a book does not suffice is insane and dishonest.

You have to come up rith a single legitimate reason why it is in the general ciriculum. The onus of proof is on society, you know.

So you think they should drag a piece of raodkill into the classroom so that students....

This Q s insincere and immature, and will get no response.

Seer TT : "What is the point of disecting a worm? Do you use worms anatomy in real life? NO! What the book says is sufficient."

The point is to learn Travis. That is what school is for. Plus, students need exposure to the subjects they might go on to study at a tertiary level.


The point of learning how to disect a worm is learning? Thats as circular as you can get. You are suggesting that the point is itself.
To suggest that advanced teriary study would be prevented by failure to disect a worm is ludicrous.

This does not need to be taught, and you are wrong if you think that school is responsible for this. It is young children with no exposure to violence who inflict the worst cruelty on animals.

It IS taught by society, in a thousand different ways, including relative consequence levels for killing a dog versus a human. YOU are wrong again.

No. We cut them open to see what is inside.

Why was that again??? What a pathetic reply.

Quote:
Fishing is another example of societally-sponsered murder and torture of Superior creatures.


It is about food and recreation Travis. Few fishermen go out of their way to inflict suffering. Almost all of them reduce it as much as possible.

Wrong.

Quote:
Can you tell Me the importance of disecting a worm


I already have. You just fail to appreciate the value of science, like a redneck complaining that their child should not have to learn a foreign language or calculus.

No, you have not shown a single legitimate reason why at all.

Quote:
when a book already shoes its anatomy?


A book shows you pictures travis. If it was the same thing, a book would do. Dissections are expensive. They are done because they are necessary.

I am sure worm disections seem to be crucial to an inferior like you.

Rest of this garbage deleted. Your reply is needlessly lengthy. You try and make the same claim 100 different ways, and your principal claim is false.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #27 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 1:05am
 
So it is OK to do the killing through carelessness, but not deliberately? It seems to me that you don't really care about the worms at all, you just care about people motivations, and because you don;t get the motivations of biologists to learn, you object to the learning process.

I never suggested I cared about worms, inferior. Of course I do not care. I am here to reveal the Truth, not worry about worms. To try and use an accidental murder of an insect to defend the murder of worms, is logically fallacious.

So society must do what you are unwilling to do yourself? You just finished explaining how it is OK to kill through carelessness or to pay someone else to do the killing. How can you expect others to do what you cannot stomach yourself?

The whole point is that society has no justification to do those things, inferior. I never suggested to society what it should do. Do you think I give the orders to societal leaders?

Travis, you completely misunderstand what biology class is about. You may have gotten some sick pleasure out of torturing the worm, but I assure you no-one else in your class did. Is it your own joy that frightens you so much?

You cannot legitimately claim what anyone else felt or experianced during their worm disection. We are discussing worm-disection, do NOT try and pass that off as the whole of biology again.

Seer TT : "That said, no INDIVIDUAL human should ever go out of his way not to un-intentionally kill an insect, he should just not intentionally murder an animal/insect unless there is a distant personal need. "

So humans must not try to avoid killing through carelessness, even when it occurs on a much larger scale, they must only avoid deliberate killing? Am I right that you have no concern for the victims at all?

To suggest that someone can avoid what is accidental is stupid. Obviously, if an individual went out of his way to risk his safety/benefit to delibaretly kill animals, that would constitute murder. However, society can pass no judgement on its victim-creation.

Seer TT: "THe individual is not responsible for his behaviour. "
Yes he is Travis.

Incorrect. Society created the True Reality of the citizen-slave, and is millions of times more untrustworthy, malevolent and murderous than any of its victim-creations could ever possibly be.

Seer TT : "Society wants you to feel the guilt instead of society "

Now you are contradicting yourself. First you said that society wants to train children to be killers, now you are saying that it wants to make them feel guilty. How can a society feel guilty without individuals feeling guilty?


That is no contradiction. I did not say "Society trains children to be killers". You are incorrect. Again. That is what you thought I meant.
Societal leaders know that due to its societal conditioning programmes, and mass  soceitally-sponsered abuse of children, that a number of children will want to commit violent actions against other life-forms, in a reflection of the violence and abuse they endured. It knows that some humans are so enraged that they want to kill.

So, society programmes all its slaves that animals are inferior, and animals should be the appropriate targets. Because society is responsible and to be blamed, it needs to shift the blame onto its victim-creations, in order to keep up its illusion of decency. There is no contradiction. For example : Ted Bundy. Society was desperate to demonise Ted, because top-level societal leaders knew that their system of society was responsible and to be blamed.

Seer TT : "via a guilt manifestation. This is what society wants, it wants you to blame yourself and feel guilty. Guilt manifestations are a form of self-harm and are a lie-based, toxic, harmful and unnatural mind-state foistered upon some citizen-slaves by society. "

No travis, that is what you are trying to do. You are trying to make us feel like we are doing something wrong.

You are not responsible, society is. Society conditioned you, society gave the orders. Since you feel guilt, you are experiancing denial as part of you guilt manifestation. Society has broken you.

Wait, so we can kill other humans, but not worms? Is that what you mean by worms being superior?

No. No individual can be legitimately blamed or judged for his own personal actions. Does NOT matter if that is worm disection or mass murder. The Truth is that the blame is on society.

But Travis, people can come up with equally logical reasons for human wars.

1. I already told you that only humans have wars. These other "wars" are small-scale fights for food, territory, water, and mates. That is natural.
2. The reaons why society tells you it has war are all lies.

The first wars were about land, or food. One group of people would slaughter another group and take their food. Modern warfare is the same logic on a broader scale. It is not the reasoning that is different, only the skill.

Wrong, inferior. Take WWII. Resources were depleted, not gained. The reason why wars are launched is no different to why a serial killer murders humans.

I tell you this : Reviews the material properly, ;ook up the intro to the Truth on war at Truthmedia.8k.com, or dont reply again.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #28 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 1:27am
 
Reply to inferior Yadda

STT, Sorry, but to me, you have not demonstrated any rational thought in your responses / assertions.

Wrong. They are perfectly rational and clear, you just deny and reject them because you hate the Truth.

Your assertions seem to culminate in expressing the thought, that humans are the lowest form of life on this planet, due to their inherent insanity, irrationality?

That is the Truth, yes, humans are inferior due to mental dysfunction. However, to suggest that this is a conclusion reached by My "assertions" is wrong.

In my estimation, you yourself, are a good demonstration of your point.

That is precisely what an inferior like you would think.

I asked.....Why would you consider fish to be 'Superior creatures'?
You response is....
"All creatures are Superior to humans, Humans suffer from :

1. Inability to handle, recognise and embrace the Forbidden Truths of life. Humans live a lie. Animals live a life based on Truth and reality.

2. Humans suffer from brain dysfunction at the genetic level. Although humans have greater cognitive ability, they have poor mental health and stability, and a illness that means they cannot experiance Truth properly."


So, your response is, "All creatures are Superior to humans,"

Incorrect. (1) and (2) above clealy contain more material than that. Your claim is a blatent lie.

AND,
And on documented animal violence in nature....

Firstly, do realise that no part of the Forbidden Truth, nor any statement I made, EVER suggested or relied upon any notion that animals do not launch physical attacks.

"These are just either mis-informations or natural behaviours. They are not wars......addressed in that lie-based and inferior document."


Biologists / naturalists have recognised that ALL creatures [not just humans] will tend to behave in violent

I NEVER suggested animals never attack other animals.
The difference is WHY the attack, for WHAT purpose, and if those attacks are PERSONAL and nutrurally motivated. Got it?

and aberrant ways

Wrong. Their claim here is lies. Animals that have no human interference never deviate from nature and personal sane Truth-based behaviours, unless their brain malfunctions due to injury or desease.
It is the humans who make false claims about the reaons why animals behave they way they do that make it appear to be deviant. THey do this because they pathologically and subconsciously  hate the Truth of what humanity has become.

, if their population density increases beyond a 'tipping point' for that species.

Look, if there is crowding, animal competition may become more fierce, Again, that is just the natural motivations of the individual.

To suggest that a group of chimpanzees fighting over limited resources for survivial is akin to Vietnam war is insane, lie-based and plain dumb

I have deleted the rest of the garbage. It is not worth botherg with.
Shorten you garbage pile, inferior, or get no reply. Do NOT include any more spacing, massive text sizes, or poetic quotes from mentally ill inferiors for no other reason than to pretend that you know what you are doing. You dont.

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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #29 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 1:31am
 
Reply to human trash and inferior Yadda

If, for example, MrX deliberately shot someone with a gun. His target died. This is the co-called "murder" crime. MrX, however, had every right to express his True Reality via murder-actions.


Wait, so we can kill other humans, but not worms? Is that what you mean by worms being superior?

Since society is to blame and responsible, and I clearly stated that society orders the worm disections (for societal purposes), there is not possible logical inconsistancy in the above statement.

You have no common sense at all, so do not bother critisizing anyone. yadda, you need to read and analyse the responses properly from now on, or you will be banned from receiveing any future reply from Me.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #30 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 1:34am
 
ID999

FLUSH! Garbage disposed of.

ID999, the OP does not reply nor suggest that worms need to feel pain, and I have already answered this Q.

The worms are being murdered. The worms are used as torture victims of humans, for the purpose of cathartic-release / poison-container directional path brainwashing.

It does not matter if the worm suffers, as long as it can be perceived to suffer.
What dont you understand?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #31 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 7:34am
 
Quote:
ID999

FLUSH! Garbage disposed of.


Who's ID999?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #32 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 9:44am
 
mantra wrote on Sep 7th, 2009 at 7:34am:
Quote:
ID999

FLUSH! Garbage disposed of.


Who's ID999?


His name was removed. That is the post ID number. I expect a certain attempt at quality in the posts to bother answering them.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #33 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 10:18am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 7th, 2009 at 1:27am:
Reply to inferior Yadda

Your assertions seem to culminate in expressing the thought, that humans are the lowest form of life on this planet, due to their inherent insanity, irrationality?

That is the Truth, yes, humans are inferior due to mental dysfunction. However, to suggest that this is a conclusion reached by My "assertions" is wrong.



I asked.....Why would you consider fish to be 'Superior creatures'?
You response is....
"All creatures are Superior to humans, Humans suffer from :

1. Inability to handle, recognise and embrace the Forbidden Truths of life. Humans live a lie. Animals live a life based on Truth and reality.

2. Humans suffer from brain dysfunction at the genetic level. Although humans have greater cognitive ability, they have poor mental health and stability, and a illness that means they cannot experiance Truth properly."








STT,

I think that i finally can see where you are going with this.         Lips Sealed

Your position would be, that the natural world, and animals in nature, are 'healthy',
.....whereas human societies are artificial, and cause 'brain dysfunction' in humans?

Is that your position?




STT,

I have a cat, and my cat trusts me.

My cat trusts me to such an extent that when she sees me outside, she always comes to me to say 'hello', and to receive strokes in her neck.

The fact that when outside [where she is free to choose her own response], my cat approaches me, is clearly aberrant behaviour for a [wild] cat.

Correct?



STT,

Do you believe that this aberrant behaviour of my cat, is because my cat is [now] mentally defective/dysfunctional too, because it has had contact with me, and has been 'domesticated' by a human?

I know, i realise, that the normal nature of a cat, when being in close proximity to a human, would be, to be terrified, or at least fearful.

A wild cat, will run a mile from a human, and woe betide the human that corners, and tries to approach and 'pet' a wild cat!



STT,

So, i ask again, in your opinion, has my cat developed a 'brain dysfunction'?

And am i responsible?




If yes, a subsequent question,

What would be the proper course of life for humans?

Should all humans live in a natural state?

So, are you proposing that we humans [so that we can once again achieve our 'pristine' and mentally healthy state], should abandon society, and that we should all revert to being hunter gatherers?

It is a serious question.

I am trying to determine what your position is, on how we can achieve mentally healthy humans.





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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #34 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 10:40am
 
You are a psychopath, seer. It's not for nothing, your obsession with Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, Martin Bryant and worms.

It's not truth you're driven by seer, but psychotic fear, seer.

How far away are you from actualising your psychopathic need to kill, STT?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #35 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 7:38pm
 
STT, I think that i finally can see where you are going with this.        

I doubt that.

Your position would be, that the natural world, and animals in nature, are 'healthy',.....whereas human societies are artificial, and cause 'brain dysfunction' in humans? Is that your position?

The root cause of the human mental dysfunction is genetic. Possibly, the complexity of the human brain made it too delicate to retain integrity against the vigours of primitive living.
That said, societal conditioning/brainwashing is responsible for nearly all the mental derangement of today. It IS possible that a society could have developed that had high tech living, human rights etc that was not lie-based (ie Truth-based). Then this Truth-based society would not produce humans that were mentally deranged.

Truthmedia.8k.com has more detailed information inder the DNA heading.

STT, I have a cat, and my cat trusts me.

Ok.

My cat trusts me to such an extent that when she sees me outside, she always comes to me to say 'hello', and to receive strokes in her neck.

Ok.

The fact that when outside [where she is free to choose her own response], my cat approaches me, is clearly aberrant behaviour for a [wild] cat. Correct?

That depends on the likely hood of you giving benefit to the cat. Be aware that domenticaed animals are NOT compareable to wild ones, because they are often tainted by human interactions.

You mis-undertand. You are focused on action. "Being free to choose her response" is nothing to do with mental freedom, especially if it is you determining the freedom of other life forms. This is where you go wrong. It is the mind, the ability to recognise and embrae the Truths of life and experiance Truth.

STT, Do you believe that this aberrant behaviour of my cat, is because my cat is [now] mentally defective/dysfunctional too, because it has had contact with me, and has been 'domesticated' by a human?

The cat would have a slight 'taint', which is a bad thing. It is not quite a wild cat. Likely, it would have problems if it went back t the wild. The mental freedom of your cat, its sanity, ability to experiance Truth has probably not been comprimised.
Is is not possible to determine this on a cat-by-cat basis. There could be unnatural behaviours or even mental abnormailities experianed by your cat.
There would be no comparison to humans. Humans are ultra-deseased. Although you are starting to get on the right track, you still do not understand.

I know, i realise, that the normal nature of a cat, when being in close proximity to a human, would be, to be terrified, or at least fearful.

If the wild cat had not had contact with humans, this instinct would serve it well. Humans are toxic and dangerous.

A wild cat, will run a mile from a human, and woe betide the human that corners, and tries to approach and 'pet' a wild cat!

That is beause it is concerned about its welfare, what the human might do etc.

So, i ask again, in your opinion, has my cat developed a 'brain dysfunction'?

I would say it was not as good as a wild cat, but it would not have a mental-derangement like only a human could. Humans are literally unable to recognise, embrace and experiance Truth and are insane and ultra-deseased.

And am i responsible?

No. Even if the cat was completely destroyed by you, society would be responsible, because you are just the victim-creation of society acting on his own True Reality.

If yes, a subsequent question, What would be the proper course of life for humans?

I do not understand this Q.

Should all humans live in a natural state?

Humans cannot live in a natural state. It does not matter if the walk into the wilderness and live there. Their deformed brains are still with them just the same.

It is theoretically possible to have a Truth-based society, where humans could have society and not have suffered from mental derangements. This did not occur.

So, are you proposing that we humans [so that we can once again achieve our 'pristine' and mentally healthy state], should abandon society, and that we should all revert to being hunter gatherers?

If society was completely abondoned, it is possible that humanity would be restored after many many generations. There is no guarantee.

However, society cannot be abandoned, because to do so requires ability to recognise and embrace Truth, something that inferiors simply can never do.

It is a serious question.

Truth is always serious

I am trying to determine what your position is, on how we can achieve mentally healthy humans.

The Forbiden Truth is that humans cannot be saved, due to the extent of their malformed and demented thinking patterns.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #36 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 8:56pm
 
More schizophrenic drivel from a wannabe psychopathic killer. What? Not got the balls to commit the ultimate existential act? Don't waste your time with the 'inferiors' ... Go on... put that gun to your head... You know you want it... do it... do it now...  Grin

One flick of the finger and the pain will be gone.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #37 - Sep 7th, 2009 at 9:35pm
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 7th, 2009 at 7:38pm:
Truth is always serious

Only for the psychopath.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #38 - Sep 12th, 2009 at 11:34pm
 
I have won. None of you displayed intellectual integrity, and My post is therefore victorious.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #39 - Sep 13th, 2009 at 12:16am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 12th, 2009 at 11:34pm:
I have won. None of you displayed intellectual integrity, and My post is therefore victorious.

Congratulations, seer... You've won a set of razor blades... Now remember... cut lengthways down your arm, not across.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #40 - Sep 13th, 2009 at 10:14pm
 
I agree wit Seer (to a degree).
Humans, in an effort to promote the abstract thinking and logical reasoning that many see as separating us from other organisms and making us "intellectually superior", place diminished importance on our innate instincts. In other words, in an effort to become more advanced and dominate our planet, we have almost completely lost our common humanity.
Humans tend to see each other as a means to an ends--we would so rather oppress and subjugate another human if it will benefit ourselves in terms of finances, lifestyle etc than work together to ensure equal social access for all. I guess this is more true in other cultures than in the Australian culture--our fair dinkum approach to life and the socialist aspects of our govt. sort of create a buffer against that. Our class divides are not as pronounced as they are in other places and the harsh Aussie climate forced the early settlers who were thrown onto this land without having a say in the matter had to work together to come to terms with how different Australia is from Europe.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #41 - Sep 13th, 2009 at 10:58pm
 
blutigeroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2009 at 10:14pm:
I agree wit Seer (to a degree).
Humans, in an effort to promote the abstract thinking and logical reasoning that many see as separating us from other organisms and making us "intellectually superior", place diminished importance on our innate instincts.

That would be exactly what makes us human.

blutigeroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2009 at 10:14pm:
Humans tend to see each other as a means to an ends--we would so rather oppress and subjugate another human if it will benefit ourselves

Commonly seen in nearly all higher order animal species. The philosopher Schopenhauer saw the cosmos itself as essentially driven by it.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #42 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:30pm
 
Blutigeroo, that doesn't seem to be what travis is getting at at all. He would have us place our fellow man below an insect.

Quote:
You have to come up rith a single legitimate reason why it is in the general ciriculum. The onus of proof is on society, you know.


Obviously the onus is not on me, or society, or we wouldn't be doing it. I have no idea what counts as legitimate in Travis world, but here is one legitimate reason in the real world: to learn. The fact that some students do not learn much from one particular lesson does not detract from it's legitimacy. IF you want to change our society, merely insisting that other people must satisfy your insane standards is not going to cut it.

Quote:
This Q s insincere and immature, and will get no response.


It is no more immature than your argument. You hint vaguely at alternatives, yet you baulk at the detail and the reality.

Quote:
Seer TT : "What is the point of disecting a worm? Do you use worms anatomy in real life? NO! What the book says is sufficient."


But plenty of people do use worm biology in real life.

Quote:
The point of learning how to disect a worm is learning?


Yes Travis. Now you are getting it.

Quote:
Thats as circular as you can get.


Sorry. I was assuming you understood the value of knowledge and science. I must keep reminding myself that you don't.

Quote:
To suggest that advanced teriary study would be prevented by failure to disect a worm is ludicrous.


But I wasn't suggesting it would be prevented travis, any more than suggesting that failure to teach maths in secondary school would mean there are no accountants. Our society would survive without learning, but it would be a diminished society. The scenarios I described would be real. Education must prepare students for the real world, not hide it from them. To suggest we must be able to draw a line from every class a student atttends to some event in their later life shows a complete lack of understanding of the mechanisms through which education benefits individuals and society.

Quote:
Why was that again??? What a pathetic reply.


The reply is pathetic because the question is pathetic. If you don't want more stupid answers, stop asking such stupid questions. Perhaps you could fess up and tell us what this grand 'truth' of your is, rather than expecting us to reverse engineer it from the self contradicting garbage you post.

Quote:
Wrong.


Now that is a pathetic response. You are trying to tell a fisherman what fishermen do and why, without being able to back it up with anything more than your prejudice.

Quote:
No, you have not shown a single legitimate reason why at all.


Yes I have. You are just unable to appreciate the reasons. Declaring the reasons illigitimate does not make them so, any more than declaring that fishermen do something for a particular reason makes you right.

Quote:
I am sure worm disections seem to be crucial to an inferior like you.


Again you misunderstand my argument. It is not crucial. It is only a very small part of our education, which is why most students only do it once. Surely if it was crucial they would do it more than once?

Quote:
Rest of this garbage deleted. Your reply is needlessly lengthy. You try and make the same claim 100 different ways, and your principal claim is false.


What is my principle claim? So far I am merely trying to respond to a few of the crazier points you make.

Quote:
I never suggested I cared about worms, inferior. Of course I do not care. I am here to reveal the Truth, not worry about worms. To try and use an accidental murder of an insect to defend the murder of worms, is logically fallacious.


I am just trying to figure out what this silly truth of yours is Travis. For someone who claims to know a truth that others don't, you seem remarkably unwilling to answer simple questions.

Quote:
The whole point is that society has no justification to do those things, inferior. I never suggested to society what it should do. Do you think I give the orders to societal leaders?


Yet you appeared to suggest that those other actions are justified. This is a pretty murky 'truth' you are pushing. Is it a 'make it up as you go along' type of truth?

Quote:
You cannot legitimately claim what anyone else felt or experianced during their worm disection.


But you just did that for fishermen. You project wierd motives onto other people all the time, apparently because you can'

Seer TT : "That said, no INDIVIDUAL human should ever go out of his way not to un-intentionally kill an insect, he should just not intentionally murder an animal/insect unless there is a distant personal need. "t understand their legitimate reason for doing what they do.

This is the sort of contradiction that pulls you argument apart travis. How can someone deliberately do something accidentally? Is there some kind of philosophy, or 'truth' behind your argument? Why are you so reluctant to reveal it?

To suggest that someone can avoid what is accidental is stupid.

But you just suggested it, not me. I was just trying to figure out your argument, but the more you try to explain it, the less sense it makes.

Incorrect. Society created the True Reality of the citizen-slave, and is millions of times more untrustworthy, malevolent and murderous than any of its victim-creations could ever possibly be.

What book are you pulling this garbage from T
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #43 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:45pm
 
Seer Travis Truman is a psychopath who has a fixation with psychopathic killers. What we are seeing here are his efforts to build a justification that he is hoping he can live with when, ultimately, he fulfils his dream of becoming a psychopathic killer himself.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #44 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:00pm
 
blutigeroo

I agree wit Seer (to a degree).

No, you disagree. There are no "degrees" of Truth.

Humans, in an effort to promote the abstract thinking and logical reasoning that many see as separating us from other organisms and making us "intellectually superior", place diminished importance on our innate instincts.

This is correct. Although humans possess the highest cognitive ability of any life form on Earth, they have gained that at the cost of mental stability, Truth-recognition and handling ability, and strength of instinct.

In short, humans have the overall WORST mental function of all species. That is why humanity has war, endless racial problems and so on. The average human life is unfullilling and dull. Mental illness and drug abuse is on the rise. And it is only getting worse.

In other words, in an effort to become more advanced and dominate our planet, we have almost completely lost our common humanity.

Define "common humanity".

Humans tend to see each other as a means to an ends--we would so rather oppress and subjugate another human if it will benefit ourselves in terms of finances, lifestyle etc than work together to ensure equal social access for all.

There is no such legitimate thing as "success" as defined by society.
What would success mean?

THe individual SHOULD reflect his True Reality to the highest degree possible, that is success. And no other persons welfare should be considered by the individual in that quest.

Society has an obligation to ensure social equalities, not the individual.

I guess this is more true in other cultures than in the Australian culture--our fair dinkum approach to life and the socialist aspects of our govt. sort of create a buffer against that. Our class divides are not as pronounced as they are in other places and the harsh Aussie climate forced the early settlers who were thrown onto this land without having a say in the matter had to work together to come to terms with how different Australia is from Europe.


Totally incorrect. america, england and australia are the 3 most malevolent and insane societies of all time.
The idea that there is "fairness" in the currect society is irrational and delusional. It has no rational basis.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #45 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:09pm
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:00pm:
Totally incorrect. america, england and australia are the 3 most malevolent and insane societies of all time.

Now that its clear to me that you're a Yank, seer TT, how often have you been to Australia?
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #46 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:14pm
 
"Blutigeroo, that doesn't seem to be what travis is getting at at all. He would have us place our fellow man below an insect."

Although man IS below all other life forms, that is NOT the basis for the argument. Maybe you should actually read the OP.

Quote Seer TT: "You have to come up rith a single legitimate reason why it is in the general ciriculum. The onus of proof is on society, you know."


"Obviously the onus is not on me, or society, or we wouldn't be doing it."


A1. You cannot determine the burden of proof by the actions of a society. That makes no rational sense. Your suggestion that 'if society does something it must be right' is irrational and insane.

A2. I have already shown that the "disection" kills the worm, as is/imitates torture. It instructs the child that society encourages the view that other species are worthless.

A2.2 Even if there was legitimate reason for worm disection, the facts in (A2) remain. This is the main point : Your argument regarding legitimate education would not exclude My revalations regarding (A2). The two are not mutally eclusive, because there can be more than one objective to the excercise.

A3. There is no reason why worm disection is needed.

A4. You can learn it from the book. Since the worm disection is unimportant, a book should suffice.

A5. Fail (A4) and (A3), specimens that died from natural causes could be used. Birds, cats and so on regularly die, and thus why the need to kill the worms?

Conclusion A : The answers given to Me OP do not explain WHY it is necessary to kill the worms, and use live worms.

"here is one legitimate reason in the real world: to learn. The fact that some students do not learn much from one particular lesson does not detract from it's legitimacy."


B1. It has no legitimacy. You forget to consider the fact that a life is being taken, and torture/torture-like application used.

B2. You do not address what is being learned, you just presume society always tells the Truth. What is being learned is to consider non-human species of life with total disregard.

B3. You must show why worm disection is worthy and important acedemic learning.

"IF you want to change our society, merely insisting that other people must satisfy your insane standards is not going to cut it."

I dont have "standards". My OP is rational and sane. I am not trying to change society. I know that humans are too mentally ill to help themselves.

It is no more immature than your argument.
My argument is mature and rational. You just don't like the conclusion.

"You hint vaguely at alternatives, yet you baulk at the detail and the reality."

C1. I already gave alternatives. You just ignored them.
C2. Since you cannot see the Truth on My position, why give you alternatives to using live worms? You think it is OK to use them.

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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #47 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:20pm
 
Quote:
Seer TT : "What is the point of disecting a worm? Do you use worms anatomy in real life? NO! What the book says is sufficient."

"But plenty of people do use worm biology in real life."

Name some uses, then.

Seer TT : The point of learning how to disect a worm is learning?

Yes Travis. Now you are getting it.

That is circular reasoning. You cannot say that it is important to learn something because it is important to learn it.
Try again.

Show Me a real-world need where you use worm-disection ability that could not have come from a book.

Sorry. I was assuming you understood the value of knowledge and science. I must keep reminding myself that you don't.

Illogical. Just because knowledge and science DO have value, does not mean that worm disections automatically have value. Show Me an example of the use of worm disection skill in real life.

Seer TT: To suggest that advanced teriary study would be prevented by failure to disect a worm is ludicrous.

But I wasn't suggesting it would be prevented travis


Yes you did :
Old Quote of you : "The point is to learn Travis. That is what school is for. Plus, students need exposure to the subjects they might go on to study at a tertiary level."


So, you are trying to suggest that disecting a worm is needed in later education.

Your argument inherantly and specifically HAS to and IS based on the need of worm disections. Else you admit there is no value in doing worm disections.

Our society would survive without learning, but it would be a diminished society.


Strawman. I never said ALL learning, nor learning about worms. I ONLY refered to using live worms or killing live worms for actual worm disections. Try to be honest with your arguments.

The scenarios I described would be real. Education must prepare students for the real world, not hide it from them.

Real world? What real-world use is there to be able to disect a living worm?

To suggest we must be able to draw a line from every class a student atttends to some event in their later life shows a complete lack of understanding of the mechanisms through which education benefits individuals and society.

Strawman. That was NOT My argument. you are trying to involve other classes and many students in general. You MUST however, show how there is a need to disect a worm over reading it in a book, or using naturally dead worms.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #48 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:23pm
 
Quote:
Why was that again??? What a pathetic reply.

The reply is pathetic because the question is pathetic.

My questions all make perfect rational sense. You just cannot accept the ramifications of same, and think of sensible answers.

Now that is a pathetic response. You are trying to tell a fisherman what fishermen do and why, without being able to back it up with anything more than your prejudice.

You are pathetic. Fishermen have NOTHING to do with the OP. I will therefore not go off onto a tangent and argue something that is nothing to do with the OP. However, My revalations about fishing are 100% accurate, and I may post a fishing-sport Truth thread in future.

You cannot disprove what I said. I know what fishermen DO, inferior. I don't have to be a fisherman Myself. I cano show why a fisherman does what he does. You cannot say otherwise, because you admit you cannot know why a fisherman does what he does. I am not even refering to individual fishermen, anyway.

No, you have not shown a single legitimate reason why at all.

Yes I have. You are just unable to appreciate the reasons. Declaring the reasons illigitimate does not make them so, any more than declaring that fishermen do something for a particular reason makes you right.

No, you have not. I found logical flaws in your reasons. They are moot. See (A) section for a better explanation.

It is not crucial. It is only a very small part of our education, which is why most students only do it once. Surely if it was crucial they would do it more than once?

Every argument you make presumes society is automatically right. What bias. Since it is not crucial, why is it neccesary to do it to a live worm? Or kill a worm to do it? Think, man.

[Inferior material cut down]

Quote Seer TT:
The whole point is that society has no justification to do those things, inferior. I never suggested to society what it should do. Do you think I give the orders to societal leaders?

Yet you appeared to suggest that those other actions are justified. This is a pretty murky 'truth' you are pushing. Is it a 'make it up as you go along' type of truth?


I showed how it is unjustified, so other actions are nothing to do with it. What other actions? You dont make sense.

Quote Seer TT: "You cannot legitimately claim what anyone else felt or experianced during their worm disection. "

But you just did that for fishermen. You project wierd motives onto other people all the time, apparently because you can'

These are matters of societal policy. I know why humans do the things they do in general, because I am a Superior Seer. Your reply is so basic and undetailed I cannot determine what it is supposed to mean.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #49 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:25pm
 
Seer TT : "That said, no INDIVIDUAL human should ever go out of his way not to un-intentionally kill an insect, he should just not intentionally murder an animal/insect unless there is a distant personal need.


This is the sort of contradiction that pulls you argument apart travis. How can someone deliberately do something accidentally?


They cannot do both as individuals at the same time. But I NEVER said that, you fool. Where do you get this delusion from?

You could walk down the street. Intention, to get from A to B. You accidently step on a snail. You are not expected to go to ridiculous lengths next time you walk down the street. However, to cross the street and go out of your way to step on a snail is different altogether. Got that now?

Seer TT : To suggest that someone can avoid what is accidental is stupid.

But you just suggested it, not me. I was just trying to figure out your argument, but the more you try to explain it, the less sense it makes.

How do I suggest it? You just have no sense. You just process the words like a computer.

You suggested it, and I replied. You did so in your stupid "get on a bus and the bus hits an insect" argument. That is what I refer to in that quote. You clip the previous material for some reason.

If you reply again, THINK FIRST.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #50 - Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:57pm
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:25pm:
[color=#ff0000]They cannot do both as individuals at the same time. But I NEVER said that, you fool. Where do you get this delusion from?

You could walk down the street. Intention, to get from A to B. You accidently step on a snail. You are not expected to go to ridiculous lengths next time you walk down the street. However, to cross the street and go out of your way to step on a snail is different altogether. Got that now?

I know you like to imagine yourself to be a superior thinker (as most schizophrenics and psychopaths do) but maybe you should read something of the Buddhist concept of mindfulness, which states that "accidentally" stepping on a snail is not necessarily a blameless act or free of karma, but rather an instance of a lack of mindfulness... Meaning that, had you been mindful of where you were walking, you may have avoided stepping on the snail.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #51 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:06am
 
No one can dispute the OP's Truths. I have won.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #52 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:59am
 
Seer Travis Truman wrote on Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:06am:
No one can dispute the OP's Truths. I have won.

Maybe because they're not 'truths'... Just erratic opinions feverishly slapped up during a series of psychotic episodes.

But anyway, as you don't appear to be aware of the concept of mindfulness and its relationship to moral culpability your raving assertions lack the depth to be dignified as 'truth'.
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #53 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 9:40am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 24th, 2009 at 1:57pm:
I know you like to imagine yourself to be a superior thinker (as most schizophrenics and psychopaths do) but maybe you should read something of the Buddhist concept of mindfulness, which states that "accidentally" stepping on a snail is not necessarily a blameless act or free of karma, but rather an instance of a lack of mindfulness... Meaning that, had you been mindful of where you were walking, you may have avoided stepping on the snail.


Doesn't some Buddhist teaching require an apology to every living thing that was harmed in a lifetime before entering a state of nibbana? I often wonder how far down the chain this applies. What about those poor pathogens that you kill when you brush your teeth, or take a course of antibiotics?

I agree with your comments on Mr looney toons, but I'm just being pedantic, and more than a bit silly in order not to be off-topic with the subject matter under discussion.  Grin
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Re: Worm disection purpose
Reply #54 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 10:56am
 
muso wrote on Oct 1st, 2009 at 9:40am:
Doesn't some Buddhist teaching require an apology to every living thing that was harmed in a lifetime before entering a state of nibbana? I often wonder how far down the chain this applies. What about those poor pathogens that you kill when you brush your teeth, or take a course of antibiotics?

I agree with your comments on Mr looney toons, but I'm just being pedantic, and more than a bit silly in order not to be off-topic with the subject matter under discussion.  Grin

Yes, according to Buddhist dogma you must be free of karma to achieve Nirvana... I guess we can't be too harsh on an ancient belief system with no knowledge of Micro-organisms, but having said that, modern Buddhism doesn't seem to absolve anyone from the burden of karma for having killed any life form (although apparently, being a Tibetan Buddhist which accepts the necessity of eating meat, the Dalai Lama is partial to a bacon sandwich... go figure Grin).

A woman I work with and a practising Buddhist told me she angsted for a long time about using pesticides to kill an aphid infestation that was screwing up her roses. She told me she meditated for weeks on the morality of spraying her garden and decided that in Buddhist terms it could not be justified... But she sprayed anyway. Her desire to experience the beauty of her roses, she told me, was greater than her duty to mindfully preserve life, thus burdening herself with karma in accordance with Buddhism's second noble truth.
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