I have a couple reasons for hesitation however. The first being that Australia's top tax bracket is 45%. Now I may never get in that 45% bracket but high taxes are confiscatory to the economy and when you cut taxes govt. revenue actually goes up because it is a domino effect of growth in the economy. The labour party apparently screwed the country over when they didn't reduce the top tax bracket to 42% like they said they would. The way to growth is low taxes and limited government. But even lower taxes can supply bigger government due to the revenue that is produced. The other reason I am hesitant to move there is your socialized medicine. You have an overflow of people in your hospitals and you have state run hospitals. Yikes that is terrible.  Please respond, thanks

It's not a Christianity issue it is a economics and quality of life issue. Whenever the govt. gets involved in anything it ruins it. In countries with socialized medicine you have long waiting lines for surgeries and you have long ER waiting lines some cancer treatments never happen why would I want that. I'm not a christian that has nothing to do with it. I want a free market health care system that thrives on competition and innovation. We have government involvement and mandates that makes prices go up now. I want to be able to pick and control who my doctor is and don't want approval from the government. What is hypocritical about that? We have the highest survival rate of people with cancer and heart disease. If you work here you have great health care. The people that don't have health insurance are the people who don't work and even they get emergency room medical treatment free.  The govt. cant mandate prices that ends up leading to shortage of supplies and problems that occur when govt. gets in involved in the market.

Nobody leaves here to get treatment in other countries!! Are you kidding me? Again the high costs of medical care are the result of govt. regulations and mandates. It is laughable how uninformed you are!! LOL you think people here leave to go to Mexico and Canada? hahaahahahahahaha

I don't mean to be rude I am just shocked that someone would think that americans leave this country for medical care

Drugs are priced high because of the strict regulations of the FDA which limits what can be sold. They have drugs in the UK that are legal that aren't legal here. That was my point earlier. But I must tell you the Mexicans and Canadians that come here for medical care is 10000x greater than people that leave here. The illegal Mexicans are overrunning our hospitals and making them go out of business because the hospitals can't turn them away. Canadians come here if they can afford out of pocket expenses for surgeries so they don't have to wait as long. Google illegal aliens in american hospitals see what comes up

Whenever you put price caps on drugs it limits the growth of the drug industry because pharm companies have to make what they invest and their only going to invest what they know their going to make

I'd suggest you don't come here Americancitizen, if you are already whining about your perceived opinion on Australia its best you don't bother.
I do think its funny that you say you'd like to come here but then whine that the USA is so much better, stay there, Australians hate whinging yanks.

americancitizen - yes, given all the bad reasons you have for not coming here, better you stay home.

never buy a dog you don't like.

Till you can write down a much bigger list for good reasons to come here, don't do it.

Real estate prices are high? I mean, if you're planning on living in Sydney or Perth, yes, but otherwise they aren't at all.

When american 87 said;
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Well there are certainly many Iraqis that would agree with you on that point.

But seriously, just how brainwashed are people if they think private enterprise is always going to deliver the best outcomes, in any modern, progressive society, it takes both working well to deliver all that we aim for in the 21st century.

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I don't really think it's a matter of brainwashing. If you actually bother to spend the time to examine both the historical and present record, you would find that it's actually a fairly reasonable inference to make. Governments, both theoretically and in reality, have almost always time and time again proven themselves to be completely incompetent in comparison to the private sector. I'm not saying that government has no role in these matters, but the near infinite litany of horror stories and anecdotes of examples of gross incompetence coming from workers in the public sector makes me extremely questioning of how large, if any size at all, that role should be.

You only have to have wrestled with the incompetent, listless morons at Centrelink to realize that this is mostly true.

tallowood wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 10:02pm:


Yes it's pretty much a private operation payed for by it's supporters, just like religions - free opinion costs nothing for athiests btw.

What amazes me is how soon people forget the nature of capitalism. Not that I think it's a bad thing, but there needs to be the control of a wider voice, ie: the general public.
Have we forgotten already that out of control greed has been the primary factor in this current meltdown?

What is certain, is that any capitilist venture will exploit people for further profits if allowed to gain total control in some area. That's just the nature of business. Business needs to be a tool for people, not the contoller.
It seems that Amer..87 either doesn't beileve that to be true, or is in agreeance with the concept of eventual world control by capitalist ventures.

The necessities that Australians once owned ( and for very good reason) have been sold off by those who we supposebly voted in to be the managers of our money and our future.
We're now in a state of bluff which pretences that we are unable to provide for ourselves and be free thinking individuals without the need to perpetually chase the carrots put in front of us.
But "yes we can  ". There's no reason why small communities, or even individuals, can't  be self-sufficient if they so desire, thereby negating the need to bow to capitalist control, which is really only a submission to being a slave for the pleasure of others.i

Yes the Labour party tries to give them a handout to I bet. Take it from an American who has seen the great state of california become a gang welfare state. Close your borders only let skilled workers in.

That is terrible man I didn't know it was that bad. It is like there here with a large percentage of blacks. They live in government houses and get food and healthcare payed for. Ya'll gotta get rid of Kevin Rudd before he apologizes again or worse....reprimations

The stupid Labour party policy in 1973. You know why they let them in......future voters!!! The labour party tries to act like their for the middle class and poor but all they see is giving the new unskilled immigrants a handout in exchange for a vote!!! I know how that works you Australians are good people unfortunately your rendezvous with this a new great land is all to familiar with me and I can tell you from our past mistakes how this will play out if not stopped immediately.

merou - that's been my experiences of americans in aussie too.
hardworking, tax paying, freedom of speech loving, straight up.

Assimilate very well overall.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 9:15pm:

Hahahahahahah your little left-wing talking points are terrible bro blame other people for their actions.......I bet your a weak little boy

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 9:15pm:



You don't realise but with every post-colonialist utterance you reinforce the idea of the w'hite man's burden' to guide and civilise the tinted children of this earth - for they are NEVER responsible for their own countries, governments, laws and relationships to each other.

The white man messes them up if he colonises them, teaches them to build infrastructure, civil society and to look beyond their village. The white man, alas, also messes them up if he leaves them to their own devices to carry on as corrupt and dim and bars them from his markets and technologies.

White man's burden - damned if you help them, damned if you don't.

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I've spent some time in the suburb in my city which has the largest Somali population, and I gotta say, you're speaking nothing but racist crap. I've always found them to be the friendliest and most humble people I've come across in Australia. I really feel so much warmth from them as a people, and I've never met a Somali who doesn't constantly smile. My son goes to school with many Somalis and some of his good friends are from amongst them (as is the consistently top scoring student in his class). I don't doubt there may be some rotten eggs amongst them (as there are in all communities) but on the whole, I really found them to be so nice and warm.

I very much doubt you've had any real first hand experiences with them.

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Just curious, how did you know they were Somalis? did you ask them?

"Wait a moment chaps, before you swipe the contents of the car whose window you just smashed, could you tell me which country you're from??"

Anyway as I said, such things could happen, as they happen amongst all different ethnicities, yes even *shock, horror, gasp* whites. To single Somalis out though and claim they're well known for such things is just not accurate in my experience. I've seen other ethnicities making much more trouble, and people who I know that have lived in the Somali area have told me the only problems they had was from Anglos in the area, not Somalis.

[quote author=abu_rashid link=1249398386/30#38 date=1249566212
Anyway as I said, such things could happen, as they happen amongst all different ethnicities, yes even *shock, horror, gasp* whites. To single Somalis out though and claim they're well known for such things is just not accurate in my experience [/quote]

Exactly, we have our own bad eggs, we don't need to import more, which, really is how this topic started, and yes let's not single out Somalis, you are right it's not fair.
Let's not import any persons by the thousands who cannot support themselves Look at the Italians hundreds of them came here and they worked their arses off, helped build the country.
It's not fair to single out Somali's, you are right, stop importing all 3rd world refugees by the ship load. I don't condemn bringing in refugees full stop, I just don't think we need to fill the country with them.

 

AAAAHHHHH, yeah..........and........
At what point in this topic did religion come into it. I have good friends that travelled from Sydney to the northwest of WA to attend my wedding, guess what.....they are muslim.
At first I was happy to see someone on here to argue the Muslim side, now, it seems, that is all you do, even if Islam was never bought up.

I think this debate has run it's course my friend.....thankyou for your input, I'm sure you will be please to know I learned a few facts from it.

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ummmm.......righto......

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 11:02pm:


I do believe this was the first point at which muslims were entered into the topic and look who the author is.

I don't know where you formed the opinion that I don't want muslims here. I don't view a man through his religion but through his actions.

I welcome any person black, white, yellow, buddhist, catholic, muslim, gnostic. My whole argument, admittedly though unfairly centred on Somalis in this instance, is I don't want thousands upon thousands of taxpayer dependant imports.
Plain and simple.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2009 at 10:13pm:


Let me state one more time just for you Abu.......
I WELCOME ALL TO AUSTRALIA, UNLESS YOU WILL BE LIVING OFF MY TAXES.
Will you stop bringing muslims in to every debate.

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Great, just be sure to research before claiming any specific community are leechers then.

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This is a non-sequitor. Whether government revenue goes up or down depends on what level current taxes are at. If you cut taxes from 1% to 0%, government revenue goes down. Obviously there is some taxation rate that maximises government revenue, and it is nowhere near 0%. What this level is would no doubt depend on the robustness of the society as a whole - for example, for an overpopulated society near breaking point it would be lower than for a wealthy, modern industrialised society. There is not a single country on earth whose government could increase revenue by reducing taxation. This line is repeated ad nauseum by empty headed free market extremists for whom capitalism is more a religion than a means to an end, and who have no qualms about sacrificing the truth to attain their version of utopia.

You are also ignoring the fact that the way government spends the income can significantly increase personal wealth of the citizens beyond what it would do if left in private hands.

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As opposed to countries without socialised medicine where the people just die of easily preventable or curable diseases because they can't afford treatment. Now tell me which option 'ruins' it? Even America has a high degree of socialisation medicine because even Americans recognise the inhumanity in denying someone basic medical treatment because they are poor. The rest is just a question of extent - ie what people consider to be basic care. You champion American free market health care, yet seem oblivious to the fact that America's is highly socialised (while providing many examples of this socialism), and would no doubt baulk at the cruelty of a genuine free market system.

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Real innovation can only happen with government sponsored research into basic science - the sort of research that is not economic for the private sector. The sort of innovation that free market capitalism brings to health care is throwing poor people out onto the street so paying customers seeking little blue pills or botox aren't inconvenienced by poor people bleeding all over the floor. One must accept the reality that there are limits to what the free market can provide, and in many areas they fall far short of what we consider acceptable. Health is one industry where socialism definitely comes out on top.

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Nothing at all, and socialised medicine does not deny you this right.

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Funny that these are diseases of rich white people who have survived the easily preventable and curable afflictions that still kill many poor people, even in America. You can add a few years to the life and suffering of a 90 year old bed bound rich person by delaying the inevitable at huge expense, while poor people freeze to death on the front step. These treatments would not be possible today without government funded research.

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That's a pretty big if. The health care is great compared to a jobless American, but who would want to be a jobless American? Perhaps you should try comparing it to a country with decent health care.

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Plenty of people do.

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I thought you said no-one leaves for cheaper treatment, now you are complaining about the high cost? Are you saying that the cost is high, but that this does not affect anyone's spending habits? That sounds like a crack in capitalism to me.

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So now you admit that people do leave the US for treatment?

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2009 at 10:13pm:

Abu Rashid just looking at your avatar tells me you want your kind to control this nation it is sickening and offensive, and of course you would welcome an American why muslims love having Americans around to bomb.