Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Australian Flag (Read 31429 times)
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Australian Flag
Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:21pm
 
...

This is currently the flag of the Australia. It was officially recognised as our national flag in 1953. Previous to that it was used by the Commonwealth government but a red ensign flag was used by the state and local governments, private organisations and citizens.

...

The Australian flag has strong ties to our British heritage. The Union Jack, of course, being the flag of the United Kingdom and an ensign used by most Commonwealth nations. And it's precisely because of this that a lot of Australians want a new flag. Many feel we need a flag that is more unique, gives us a sense of independence and pride for our own country rather than mother England. And with Republicanism being a big issue in Australia, there may be a need for a new flag if and when Australia becomes a Republic.

There have been many suggestions made and competitions held to find an alternative flag. The main objective for most flag designers being to replace or remove the Union Jack. A simple solution is to replace the Union Jack with the Federation Star:

...

A popular suggestion has been to replace the Union Jack with the Aboriginal Flag:

...

Here is Sam Neill in the movie Event Horizon wearing an Aboriginal-ensign Australian flag on his sleeve:

...

But this design has drawn a lot of criticism. First of all, it's not an aesthetically good design. Harold Thomas, the designer of the Aboriginal Flag has objected to this flag saying the Aboriginal flag shouldn't be placed as an adjunct to any other thing.

So some designed have been made which use incorporate elements of our current flag and the Aboriginal flag rather than just placing them side by side as they are. This is a design called the "Sunburnt Flag":

...

These two versions of the "Reconciliation Flag" were designed by Brendan Jones:

...

...

Here is the first version of the "Reconciliation Flag" on a flag pole:

...

I personally love both of these designs. They are very aesthetically pleasing and they incorporate the current Australian flag and elements of the Aboriginal flag well. I prefer the second design. But I would definitely vote for either of these two in a referendum.

There is also an organisation called Ausflag who have campaigned for a new Australian flag and have held competitions to find the best designs for a new Australian flag.

What do you think of the necessity of a new flag for Australia? Have you seen any designs you like?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:37pm by deleted »  
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #1 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:29pm
 
A flag should represent the heritage and history of a nation.

Ausflag will only (when they feel like it) show an interest in "their" designs.  Those decided upon by a very small and limited group.

personally i like our flag even though NZ's is too close to it in design in my opinion.

I'd accept a design of a hybrid Union Flag with aboriginal colours bled into it but not much else.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:35pm by Grendel »  
 
IP Logged
 
DILLIGAF
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1259
The greens are red
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #2 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:22pm
 
Like hell if i'll ever accept the Abo flag as a part of the national one. To me it represents black racism, handouts, booze, slums, child rape etc.

THE FLAG DOES NOT REPRESENT ME AT ALL AND I WOULD BE SO ASHAMED IF IT AND WHAT IT REPRESENTS WAS FORCED APON ME.

I am not black nor am i a derelict sorry excuse for a human being unlike those dirty primative embarrassing spooks.

End rant.

If i had to choose though if we were to lose our awesome flag, it would be the Eureka one. And of the options above, the sunburnt flag- it looks very Australian. Sure you may say i'm hypocritical here due to it being a mix of the abo flag and ours i see it differently.
The loss of the black colour does it a lot of justice, to me the flag shows the Australian landscape of the southern cross in the sky with the big orange sun rising over the hot surface of our land.
That does appeal to me.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:30pm by DILLIGAF »  

Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #3 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:41pm
 
See how many of those flags I burn and rip up if it ever becomes the National flag.

Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
DILLIGAF
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1259
The greens are red
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #4 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:44pm
 
Calanen wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:41pm:
See how many of those flags I burn and rip up if it ever becomes the National flag.



I'll supply the matches.
Back to top
 

Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #5 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
DILLIGAF wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:22pm:
If i had to choose though if we were to lose our awesome flag, it would be the Eureka one. And of the options above, the sunburnt flag- it looks very Australian. Sure you may say i'm hypocritical here due to it being a mix of the abo flag and ours i see it differently.
The loss of the black colour does it a lot of justice, to me the flag shows the Australian landscape of the southern cross in the sky with the big orange sun rising over the hot surface of our land.
That does appeal to me.

Ignoring the racist tirade.

I agree mostly with you about the Sunburnt flag. The design is great and really well though out. It incorporates the old flag (Southern cross and red, white & blue colours), the Aboriginal flag (red lower third and yellow half-circle), and the rising sun over the blood of the Anzacs. I think it's great. I think Brendan Jones' designs a little more stunning, but I'd be so happy with the Sunburnt flag. My objection to the current flag is the Union Jack. I'm so to any proud Monarchs here but I just don't think our relationship with Britain is anything more now than just formality and a technicality. Even militarily we're more faithful to the US than the UK these days. I'd love to become a Republic. I think Australians deserve their own head of state and I think it would do us good to claim our independence for good. But short of that, I think at least we should adopt a new flag that's unique to us, Australians, without the constant reminder of our ties to mother England.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jim Profit
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 439
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #6 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:18pm
 
...
A challanger appears...

lol!


But I'll just say this, you should go with something that's different from the bars. I know your anscestors were English refugees, and that's the thing. You finally got away from England. Why would you want anything to do with those knuckle teethed fascists?
Back to top
 

But I still believe there's something left for you and me.
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #7 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:18pm
 
"Sunburnt"... looks like something from Kindi to me... Tongue

So you'd like to ignore who we are and what made us Bob?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:43pm
 

Cocos Islands flag should become the national flag!!

...
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:46pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:18pm:
"Sunburnt"... looks like something from Kindi to me... Tongue

You're right. I love the imagery and the symbolism in it but it is a little kindy.

Quote:
So you'd like to ignore who we are and what made us Bob?

No. I just think it's time to move on. I think that no matter how independent we get and how much we cut our ties from Britain, we shouldn't forget our history. But why does that have the be represented by a Union Jack? What's wrong with the red, white and blue? And what about the other part of our history? The traditional owners of this land?   You say "who we are". We are more than just ancestors of British convicts. We are Aboriginals, we are Asian migrants, we are a multicultural country and you'll have to accept that sooner of later because the fringe element of Australian society that wants to evict all non-Whites will never have any sort of power to do so.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #10 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:49pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:43pm:

Cocos Islands flag should become the national flag!!

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/c/cc.gif

That looks ridiculous.

The palm tree in the yellow circle (I suppose representing the sun) looks cheap.

The crescent moon denotes an Islamic theocracy which we're not and never will be.

Big no to this flag.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #11 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:59pm
 
You have no real idea what I think or what I accept.

Well I support a hybrid UFlag as i said because it incorporates our heritage and history as a nation.  Like it or not the British gave us just about everything that made us what we are today.  Most of our culture, law, government/political system, architecture, arts, sport, language, etc, etc, etc...

I happen to recognise 2 Australian cultures...  the indigenous and the western...  I think most Australians do.  Globally however the Australian western culture is the dominant one.  (Stereotypes and all).

We are not multicultural...  we are multiracial.  A nation can have only one national culture.  We are Australian and so is our culture.  You want to live another culture migrate but don't call it Australian.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47066
At my desk.
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #12 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:03pm
 
Thanks Bob. I know we've had this discussion before, but it's great to see some actual suggestions put forward.

'Kindy' is not a bad thing. I think we should resist the urge to overcomplicate the flag.

Personally, I don't see much point in trying to change it. To me a flag is more of a historical symbol than anything else. It's practical value is diminished these days. So for that reason we should stick with what we've got.

It's just a symbol for idiots to wrap themselves in while they beat up immigrants.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #13 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:20pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:59pm:
You have no real idea what I think or what I accept.

Well I support a hybrid UFlag as i said because it incorporates our heritage and history as a nation.  Like it or not the British gave us just about everything that made us what we are today.  Most of our culture, law, government/political system, architecture, arts, sport, language, etc, etc, etc...

I happen to recognise 2 Australian cultures...  the indigenous and the western...  I think most Australians do.  Globally however the Australian western culture is the dominant one.  (Stereotypes and all).

We are not multicultural...  we are multiracial.  A nation can have only one national culture.  We are Australian and so is our culture.  You want to live another culture migrate but don't call it Australian.

I think we agree, but for some reason we're arguing.

Yes, the British gave us our governmental system, our sport, our culture. Yes, the western culture in Australia is the dominant one. Yes, we should represent our national heritage. But why does that have to be represented by the Union Jack? I think we can represent our British heritage through the colours red, blue and white. I don't know why it's so important that we keep the Union Jack. That's what makes us feel tied down to mother England and not our own nation.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #14 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:31pm
 
Many flags have the Union Flag on it.  Commonwealth countries in particular.  To me it is like being called junior.

So i look at it in the light that when we grow up we have our own version of the Union Flag an Australian hybrid.  This maintains our ties with history and heritage.  

Bleeding in the Aboriginal colours is in my view an act of symbollic reconcilliation.  It cements them as a indellible part of our nation.

I have several versions of a draft at home.

The flag can be seen as a form of Union Flaq, locking in our western history and heritage and also our  indigenous history and heritage.  It has the Southern Cross at its centre identifying our place in the world and if you look carefully it can be seen as spearheads pointing to the stars.

You also cant confuse it with either the Union Flag or the NZ flag.  good for the olympics and commonwealth games.  Grin

As for the anglophobia...  that's just childish.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #15 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:38pm
 
Quote:
That looks ridiculous.
The palm tree in the yellow circle (I suppose representing the sun) looks cheap.


As an Australian I take great offence to you mocking and belittling one of our great OFFICIAL state/territory flags! How dare you!

Quote:
The crescent moon denotes an Islamic theocracy which we're not and never will be.


Actually it's a symbol of the various Turkic peoples (even some of them non-Muslims), if truth be told.

Quote:
Big no to this flag.


Party pooper!

How about a Talibaan standard but gold on green? Can even throw in a boxin' kangaroo if you like?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #16 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:56pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 10:38pm:
How about a Talibaan standard but gold on green? Can even throw in a boxin' kangaroo if you like?


Wearing a pashtoon hat and a koran in his front pocket, surrounded by 4 fully veiled emus, long lashes fluttering (no makeup).

I think you are onto something here.





Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #17 - Feb 18th, 2009 at 2:54am
 
Unfortunately site restrictions mean I cannot post the design or variations.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #18 - Feb 18th, 2009 at 7:00am
 

Yeh the swastika is not allowed here, sorry Grendel.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Jim Profit
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 439
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #19 - Feb 18th, 2009 at 7:37am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 18th, 2009 at 7:00am:
Yeh the swastika is not allowed here, sorry Grendel.

I'd prefer a swastika over those english bars.

I don't like the english. Well, more accurately I don't like their police state of a government.
Back to top
 

But I still believe there's something left for you and me.
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #20 - Feb 18th, 2009 at 3:53pm
 
It's only become a police state due to Muslims...  right Aboo?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #21 - Feb 18th, 2009 at 8:42pm
 
Australia a police state??  Grin
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Jim Profit
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 439
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #22 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 6:06am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 18th, 2009 at 8:42pm:
Australia a police state??  Grin

Sounds about right, you guys got large taxation, over 9000 social laws, a bunch of gun control, compulsory democracy, you can't even look at pornography without worrying about an arrest.

Sounds pretty police state to me.
Back to top
 

But I still believe there's something left for you and me.
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #23 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 9:41am
 
Jim Profit wrote on Feb 19th, 2009 at 6:06am:
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 18th, 2009 at 8:42pm:
Australia a police state??  Grin

Sounds about right, you guys got large taxation, over 9000 social laws, a bunch of gun control, compulsory democracy, you can't even look at pornography without worrying about an arrest.

Sounds pretty police state to me.

You're right. Totally right. Australia is not perfect. It's not a "free" country IMO. We don't even have a constitutional right to freedom of speech or privacy. That's why so many video games are banned or modified in Australia and why the Labour government has been thinking of introducing an Internet filter. It's ludicrous. I wish everything you listed was reversed. Lower taxes, fewer laws, increased gun rights, optional voting, right to privacy and to speech.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #24 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 3:42pm
 
...


...

You will be seeing a lot more of these.

Soon....
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie Skinhead
Senior Member
****
Offline


Reichsfuhrer der Deutsche
Reich

Posts: 391
Queensland Australia
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #25 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 4:58pm
 
How dare you do that to the great Eureka flag. The Eureka flag should be left alone. I agree with Australian Nationalist that we should adopt the Eureka flag as the federal flag. I always proudly salute the Eureka and federal flags on May Day. I don't see why we have to change the federal flag. The full blood Aboriginals have nearly died out. The Aboriginal race is dying. So, we shouldn't worry about what they want. In fact, we should help the dying Aboriginal race by helping them become apart of the white western civilization. Their children are poorly educated and mistreated. So, I think the Aboriginal children should be removed and placed in state or religious institutions. It is our duty to help them.
Back to top
 

“Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.”&&&&Reichsfuhrer Adolf Hitler der Grosse Deutsche Reich
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #26 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 5:38pm
 
Oh dear Aboo completely missed the point again...  that'll teach you not to read things Islamonazi.  Shocked
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #27 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 5:52pm
 
Bob George,

Quote:
You're right. Totally right. Australia is not perfect. It's not a "free" country IMO.


Have you ever visited an actual police state? If not, just thank God you've never experienced it and be glad you live in Australia, which is quite free, for now. Although those freedoms are swiftly being eroded in the name of the "War on terror", We're still much freer than any police state.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #28 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 8:04pm
 
Aussie Skinhead wrote on Feb 19th, 2009 at 4:58pm:
How dare you do that to the great Eureka flag.



It's not the Eureka Flag. It's black instead of blue. Like the NZ flag and the naval ensign are similar flags, but not the same, as the Australian flag.

Quote:
The Eureka flag should be left alone.


I am. I'm not saying to change the Eureka Flag. I just want the Black Southern Cross. The other one with the red across it is a battle flag.

Quote:
I agree with Australian Nationalist that we should adopt the Eureka flag as the federal flag.


Maybe, its been hijacked by too many morons. Need a clean slate.

Quote:
I always proudly salute the Eureka and federal flags on May Day. I don't see why we have to change the federal flag.


We dont.

Quote:
The full blood Aboriginals have nearly died out. The Aboriginal race is dying. So, we shouldn't worry about what they want. In fact, we should help the dying Aboriginal race by helping them become apart of the white western civilization. Their children are poorly educated and mistreated. So, I think the Aboriginal children should be removed and placed in state or religious institutions. It is our duty to help them.


It is our duty to pay for them. Don't think anyone can help them.
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #29 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 9:13pm
 
1. For those who like colouring in
2. had to cut the centre out of my flag due to site restrictions

Back to top
 

Flag_lin.jpg (65 KB | 66 )
Flag_lin.jpg
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47066
At my desk.
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #30 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 9:42pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19th, 2009 at 5:52pm:
Bob George,

Quote:
You're right. Totally right. Australia is not perfect. It's not a "free" country IMO.


Have you ever visited an actual police state? If not, just thank God you've never experienced it and be glad you live in Australia, which is quite free, for now. Although those freedoms are swiftly being eroded in the name of the "War on terror", We're still much freer than any police state.


Kind of ironic from someone who wants to recreate an Islamic dictatorship.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
tallowood
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4230
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #31 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:02pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19th, 2009 at 5:52pm:
Bob George,

Quote:
You're right. Totally right. Australia is not perfect. It's not a "free" country IMO.


Have you ever visited an actual police state? ...


I did and that is why I am against any resemblance of islamic states anywhere in the world.


Back to top
 

Reality is a figment of imagination
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #32 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:01pm
 
edited version...

Back to top
 

FLAGA.jpg (84 KB | 65 )
FLAGA.jpg
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #33 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:34pm
 
freediver,

Quote:
Kind of ironic from someone who wants to recreate an Islamic dictatorship.


Nowhere have I ever claimed I want to recreate a dictatorship. This is just pure bovine faeces.

Tallow,

Quote:
I did and that is why I am against any resemblance of islamic states anywhere in the world.


Since there's no actual Islamic state in the world, that'd be a little hard.

Grendel,

Quote:
had to cut the centre out of my flag due to site restrictions


You removed the swastika out of the middle, and replaced it with a southern cross?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47066
At my desk.
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #34 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:55pm
 
Quote:
Nowhere have I ever claimed I want to recreate a dictatorship. This is just pure bovine faeces.


Sure you did Abu. You just tried to pretend it was not a dictatorship.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #35 - Feb 19th, 2009 at 11:50pm
 
oh poor Aboo...  no that's the original design you racist Islamist schmuck.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #36 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 4:12am
 

Quote:
Sure you did Abu. You just tried to pretend it was not a dictatorship


Ok if it keeps you happy, I did.. no problem fd.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #37 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 7:24am
 
What is about gun nuts and flags?

All these people who want the right to free speech, and the right to have a gun to shoot any who disagree with them?????

I love england, I have english, irish, scottish, and french(way back) ancestry, but I do not think the union jack, an amalgam of the st george, st andrew, and the st patrick, crosses, should have any place on an aussie flag, when we finally declare our independence, and become a republic, and changing the flag for any other reason, or time,  would be almost pointless.

Of the options here, I do like the kindy flag, and I have always had a deeper respect for the eureka flag, and considered it to be a truer version of our national flag, than the one the authorities nominate.

I recall the value of the aussie flag as a young traveller, although many did not know it was an aussie flag, it identified that at least you were not american, and so much antipathy felt for the US, was avoided.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would still have the same effect today, and we can thank our pollies for our falling popularity, in many places overseas.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #38 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 7:29am
 
As Jerry Seinfeld once quipped, “I love your flag - Britain at night,”.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
tallowood
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4230
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #39 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 7:54am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:34pm:
...
Tallow,

Quote:
I did and that is why I am against any resemblance of islamic states anywhere in the world.


Since there's no actual Islamic state in the world, that'd be a little hard.
...


And that's the way it should be  Smiley


Back to top
 

Reality is a figment of imagination
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #40 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:20am
 
Saying there is no actual Islamic state, is a bit like the sleight of hand all communists used, that there was no TRUE communist state...even though the Soviet Empire dominated the globe. Just more obfuscation from the master of obfuscation.
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #41 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:39am
 
Calanen,

An Islamic state is known as a Caliphate. This is widely known by pretty much all Muslims and even many non-Muslims. Do you see a single state today calling itself a Caliphate?

When we examine the constitutions of all the countries you will claim are Islamic, we find they have so much stuff that clearly contradicts Islam, and which nullifies their status as an Islamic state. They are no more Islamic than the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic. Islamic names, inscriptions on flags, decorations and other paraphernalia do not an Islamic state make.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #42 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:44am
 
Well how about Islamically inspired theocracy?

Would that be appropriate to describe them?
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #43 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:51am
 
If you could call DPRK a "democracy inspired" state, then perhaps.

But it still doesn't change the fact they don't really represent Islam nor Muslims. Most of them are quite pro-Western and are simply there to serve their masters needs, this is well known and documented. They have no loyalty to Islam or Muslims whatsoever.

Saudi Arabia for instance, which supposedly is the "closest" to  an Islamic state is one of the staunchest U.S allies in the world.

They also have some veryy bizarre laws which have absolutely nothing to do with Islam, like forbidding women from driving.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #44 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:56am
 
Quote:
, like forbidding women from driving.


Yes I love that one.

A saudi woman can get a jet licence, but must ride a bike to the airport. lol
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #45 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 10:31am
 
Well i don't know who the gun nuts are but having been a Cub much earlier in life I understand about the other flags involved in ours.  And I for one refuse to deny or exclude our heritage and history in our symbolic representation.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #46 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 11:45am
 
Quote:
Well i don't know who the gun nuts are but having been a Cub much earlier in life I understand about the other flags involved in ours.  And I for one refuse to deny or exclude our heritage and history in our symbolic representation.


I can just see you as a Cub Grendel.  I was a Brownie but never made it to Girl Guides - earning those little badges became too challenging - and monotonous.  I can imagine you would have excelled.  Cheesy
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #47 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 11:58am
 
Nice of you to comment on topic mantra...  not a personal attack of course eh.  Well mantra you've never been right about me before so your last comment is no surprise.  Not into badges at all...  just the friendship, learning  and games etc. Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #48 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 12:13pm
 
No - seriously it wasn't a personal attack - just pointing out something we had in common.  But obviously we had different objectives even as kids. Grin

I was exploited financially as a Brownie. Sorry to divert from the topic - I got distracted.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
muso
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #49 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 1:27pm
 
mantra wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 11:45am:
Quote:
Well i don't know who the gun nuts are but having been a Cub much earlier in life I understand about the other flags involved in ours.  And I for one refuse to deny or exclude our heritage and history in our symbolic representation.


I can just see you as a Cub Grendel.  I was a Brownie but never made it to Girl Guides - earning those little badges became too challenging - and monotonous.  I can imagine you would have excelled.  Cheesy


I was a cub too. I was actually a sixer, and I was pretty good at it. That was the first and last extremist paramilitary organisation I ever belonged to  Grin

Then I discovered girls.....
Back to top
 

...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
IP Logged
 
tallowood
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4230
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #50 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 2:01pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:39am:
...
An Islamic state is known as a Caliphate. ...


and this ... is caliphate flag, which you called turkic early on. So was caliphate turkic or islamic state?
Back to top
 

Reality is a figment of imagination
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #51 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 3:34pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 10:31am:
Well i don't know who the gun nuts are but having been a Cub much earlier in life I understand about the other flags involved in ours.  And I for one refuse to deny or exclude our heritage and history in our symbolic representation.

Yes the Union Jack is symbolic of our heritage, but it's not so much a symbol as it is a flag. Do you get what I'm saying? We have another nation's flag on our flag in the upper-left (if your looking at it) corner of the flag implying subordination to that flag. That's offensive to me. It's like we're a territory of Britain rather than our own country. The Union Jack is not the only way we can symbolise our heritage. And what about the other parts of our heritage? Just ignore everything else? Is our British history the only part of our history that needs remembering? Why isn't red, white and blue a good enough representation of our British heritage? Why isn't the Southern cross a good enough representation of our old flag? And what if we do become a Republic? Would you still want to retain the Union Jack. That would seem very pointless to me and almost like a child afraid to let go of his mother's hand on his first day of school.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #52 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 4:48pm
 
Abu's avatar is part of the flag of the Cocos and Keeling Islands pushed into a map of Australia.
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #53 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 5:25pm
 
My version doesn't have the Union Flag...  but it still nods to our history and heritage.

To be offended is just being childish BTW...  i really don't understand anglophobic Australians.

I already explained my design...  thoroughly.  I suggest you re-ead it look at it...  then comment.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47066
At my desk.
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #54 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 9:49pm
 
A new flag if we become a republic may make sense, but I expect it would be so hard to agree on a new one that we would just stick with th old one.

I agree with Abu about the Islamic state thing. Through most of Islam's history it was a single empire. It was always obvious which was the Islamic state. Not any more. It doesn't make sense to have lots of little ones. I'm pretty sure they would simply merge by whatever means necessary if they were genuine Islamic states. I think Muslims are stuck in the uncomfortable position of baulking at the reality of a genuine Islamic state. I think the Taliban was probably closest, yet that was one of the most heavily criticsed regimes. As much as conservative Muslims blame the west for their predicament, it would simple not be possible to prevent another Caliphate if there was a genuine demand for one. In the end, it is progressive Muslims who stand in the way of a Caliphate.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #55 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 10:12pm
 
mozza,

Quote:
A saudi woman can get a jet licence, but must ride a bike to the airport. lol


Although you might think that's amusing, it's not true. Women in the pirate Saudi state are not allowed to commandeer any motorised vehicle, including aircraft. This caused quite a rukus a while back when they tried to prevent foreign female pilots flying over their airspace.

Calanen,

Quote:
Abu's avatar is part of the flag of the Cocos and Keeling Islands pushed into a map of Australia.


Actually that's a co-incidence. My avatar is made by me, before I even saw the Cocos flag. I remember seeing the emblem of an Australian Muslim community group a few years back that had something like this, so I reconstructed it roughly from memory. Perhaps they based their emblem on the Cocos flag, not sure. Either way, it's an officially recognised Australian symbol, of our one territory which (so far) has a majority Muslim population. Perhaps as Muslims become majority (insha'allah) in other states/territories, we can adopt/refine the Cocos flag to suit them, then one day the federal flag INSHA'ALLAH!!! when our plans for national and global domination eventually come to fruition *evil world domination laugh*

Tallow,

Each Caliphate had different flags. I'm not sure what Caliphate that flag is from, perhaps it was an Ottoman flag, since they were the only Turkish-based Caliphate.

freediver,

Quote:
I think the Taliban was probably closest


I think not.

The Caliphate restorationist movements called on the Talibaan to establish a Caliphate, they refused, claiming they don't believe in it, that it's just a situation that existed 1400 years ago, which has nothing to do with today (much like your view actually, rather than mine).
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #56 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 10:45pm
 
So what has all this crap got to do with the Australian flag?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #57 - Feb 20th, 2009 at 11:15pm
 
Ask those who diverted into those arguments. I merely responded to correct them.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
DILLIGAF
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1259
The greens are red
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #58 - Feb 21st, 2009 at 10:06am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 20th, 2009 at 11:15pm:
I merely responded to correct them.


No you dont, you lie through your islamic inbred buck teeth.
Back to top
 

Total anti-marxist and anti-left wing. The Right is Right.&&&&&&
 
IP Logged
 
athos
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Re-educate barbarians

Posts: 6347
Hong Kong
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #59 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 10:55am
 
deleted wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:21pm:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/blueensign_thumb.png

This is currently the flag of the Australia. It was officially recognised as our national flag in 1953. Previous to that it was used by the Commonwealth government but a red ensign flag was used by the state and local governments, private organisations and citizens.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/redensign_thumb.png

The Australian flag has strong ties to our British heritage. The Union Jack, of course, being the flag of the United Kingdom and an ensign used by most Commonwealth nations. And it's precisely because of this that a lot of Australians want a new flag. Many feel we need a flag that is more unique, gives us a sense of independence and pride for our own country rather than mother England. And with Republicanism being a big issue in Australia, there may be a need for a new flag if and when Australia becomes a Republic.

There have been many suggestions made and competitions held to find an alternative flag. The main objective for most flag designers being to replace or remove the Union Jack. A simple solution is to replace the Union Jack with the Federation Star:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/republicflag_thumb.png

A popular suggestion has been to replace the Union Jack with the Aboriginal Flag:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/aboriginalensign_thumb....

Here is Sam Neill in the movie Event Horizon wearing an Aboriginal-ensign Australian flag on his sleeve:

http://www.ibiblio.org/samneill/pictures/eh/353miller.jpg

But this design has drawn a lot of criticism. First of all, it's not an aesthetically good design. Harold Thomas, the designer of the Aboriginal Flag has objected to this flag saying the Aboriginal flag shouldn't be placed as an adjunct to any other thing.

So some designed have been made which use incorporate elements of our current flag and the Aboriginal flag rather than just placing them side by side as they are. This is a design called the "Sunburnt Flag":

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/sunburnt_flag_thumb.png

These two versions of the "Reconciliation Flag" were designed by Brendan Jones:

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/brendanjones1_thumb.png

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/brendanjones2_thumb.png

Here is the first version of the "Reconciliation Flag" on a flag pole:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~brendan.jones/flags/images/aus-1.jpg

I personally love both of these designs. They are very aesthetically pleasing and they incorporate the current Australian flag and elements of the Aboriginal flag well. I prefer the second design. But I would definitely vote for either of these two in a referendum.

There is also an organisation called Ausflag who have campaigned for a new Australian flag and have held competitions to find the best designs for a new Australian flag.

What do you think of the necessity of a new flag for Australia? Have you seen any designs you like?


I think Australia, until gains national and cultural identity, should replace its British flag with Danish flag and British Queen with Danish Queen. Anyway Danish Princess Marry is an Australian, isn’t it?.

Am I going to offend Pome patriots who pretend to be Aussies?
Back to top
 

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #60 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 12:27pm
 
The Britannic heritage of this country is far, far more important than any other heritage or influence or lineage.

And attractive though the Danish flag is, well, it's too red.
Back to top
 

 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #61 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 12:30pm
 
If the flag is to be changed and the Union Jack should be replaced, then it should be replaced by this country's flag, not by another's. That would show our proud Australian heritage.

Back to top
 

AUS_asu_flag.JPG (20 KB | 85 )
AUS_asu_flag.JPG
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #62 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 11:22pm
 
An Australian Flag within an Australian Flag. Interesting, lol.

No, I've already decided. When Australia becomes a Republic our flag will by the Sunburnt Flag.

...

I think it's the best alternative design I've seen and it gets a positive response from most people. I really like it. It should be our new flag. A flag for an independent Australia, not Australia subordinated to Britain.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #63 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 7:25am
 
Aboriginal flag colours, and Australian flag colours together in a hybrid Union Flag.
Back to top
 

FLAGA_001.jpg (84 KB | 72 )
FLAGA_001.jpg
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #64 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 7:35am
 
The Sunburnt Flag is kindi-crap.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #65 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 8:17am
 
deleted wrote on Mar 18th, 2009 at 11:22pm:
An Australian Flag within an Australian Flag. Interesting, lol.

No, I've already decided. When Australia becomes a Republic our flag will by the Sunburnt Flag.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/Bob_George/Flags/suburntflag1-2-1.png

I think it's the best alternative design I've seen and it gets a positive response from most people. I really like it. It should be our new flag. A flag for an independent Australia, not Australia subordinated to Britain.



It looks like a sunset.

"It's goodnight from me and it's goodnight from him."

Might be just the thing in a couple of years...

Jerking around with a flag is a really immature, insecure, cringeworthy thing for a country to do. It is a sign of being sucked in by any passing fad. Nothing dates like the latest thing. We should be glad that our flag and our constitution is older than almost any of the European ones. It's a sign of maturity and steady confidence, unlike most of the Europeans who have been rushing from ideological idiocy to another in the past century or two and therefore rightly cringe when they look back at their own history.
Britain is not one of them, though. There is nothing shameful about Australia's British links.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #66 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 3:59pm
 
I can't stand the look of the first flag.
Grendel, yours is absolutely horrid.
I like the sunburnt flag, but be careful about wanting a republic too much. It won't be for our benefit.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #67 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 7:14pm
 
Why is it horrid...  good colours nice relevant design.
back to kindi with you...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #68 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 9:38pm
 
Quote:
Why is it horrid...  good colours nice relevant design.
back to kindi with you...


Well Grumble, yours reminds me of some aboriginal version of "Dad's Army" - Period.  Bob George's sort of looks like the sun rising for the aboriginal community under the southern cross. It's more simple, concise, and is considerably more aesthetically pleasing; understandably, the aboriginals may not agree with me there, and I don't agree with me either, but at least it's positive.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #69 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:11pm
 
You'll have to do better than that Amadd...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #70 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:14pm
 
Quote:
You'll have to do better than that Amadd...


Then tell me what you wish me to add besides my opinion.
Tell me the meaning of your flag... I don't get it.
If you're going to use the aboriginal colours, then you have to convey a meaning to it. What is it?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #71 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:23pm
 
Well i'd like an opinion based on logic and reason...  a reason with some reason...  that would be nice.

Dont you think the aborigines should be represented somehow on our flag?
BTW I think you'll find an explanation somewhere near the front of this topic.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
deleted
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 68
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #72 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:26pm
 
Amadd wrote on Mar 19th, 2009 at 9:38pm:
Quote:
Why is it horrid...  good colours nice relevant design.
back to kindi with you...


Well Grumble, yours reminds me of some aboriginal version of "Dad's Army" - Period.  Bob George's sort of looks like the sun rising for the aboriginal community under the southern cross. It's more simple, concise, and is considerably more aesthetically pleasing; understandably, the aboriginals may not agree with me there, and I don't agree with me either, but at least it's positive.




Just to make it clear, the sunburnt flag is not "Bob George's". I didn't design it. I only messed it with a bit because I didn't like how the Southern Cross looked on the original design. The original design can be found at sunburntflag.com.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #73 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:39pm
 
Quote:
Just to make it clear, the sunburnt flag is not "Bob George's". I didn't design it. I only messed it with a bit because I didn't like how the Southern Cross looked on the original design.


Yes, good. It's nice that it's been endoursed by Cathy Freeman, but I think it's trying to re-write history a bit - quite a lot really.
The sun didn't exactly rise for them. More like their entire reason for existence was exterminated in one foul swoop.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #74 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:53pm
 
Quote:
Well i'd like an opinion based on logic and reason...  a reason with some reason...  that would be nice.


I asked you the reason Grumble and you didn't answer me.
What is the significance of the aboriginal colours in your version of the Australian flag?
You didn't answer me.....I'm still waiting.....and waiting....and waiting.....

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #75 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 11:02pm
 
C'mon Grumble....you can do better than that!!

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #76 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 11:24pm
 
With all due respect to Aborigines, their culture and signficance is vastly, vastly overstated, most likely due to an excessivee sense of guilt. Their impact on the continent of Australia has been, ecologically speaking, admirably negligable. The downside of this is that their impact on the country of Australa, in every other sense, has also been negligable.
The aborignal flag itself is a kitchy, sentimeental, latter day invention by minds habituated completely by western idioms of symbolism. It is almost as ridiculous as the canadian flag. Both are the fruits of junior high school efforts. Their only meaning is sentimentality.


 

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #77 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 11:45pm
 
Then you wouldn't even bother to include the aboriginals in a new Australian flag Soren?
They are the isignificant ones, so they are not worthy to be included?
I think that a sense of guilt refers to an inner knowledge or recognition of what is  good for the team above the individual. On average, team aboriginal is still ahead of team capitalist.
Left to their own devices, the aboriginals would  probably win the race.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #78 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 12:19am
 
Amadd wrote on Mar 19th, 2009 at 11:45pm:
Then you wouldn't even bother to include the aboriginals in a new Australian flag Soren?


No.

But then I don't see the neeed for a new flag. But even if there had to be a new one, I think genuflecting to what is by now a completely debauched and deformed aboginality is sentimental sop and guilt mongering. Their symbolic significance is minimal unless one is consumed by guilt over them. Their myths are not ours. Their superior ecological knowledge is not enough to elevate them to symbolise the whole country.



Re: their own devices -
They are held in the zoo of ethnographic, antropological pity and guilt, condemned to the treadmill of their  'noble savage as victim of modernity' schtik. What is best for theirs children is the same thing that is best for mine - parents who work, regular school with as much maths, englis as they can handle, ditto englsh and science and history, clean clothes and houses, a world that allows them to find their talent and pursue their interests.
I am afraid they have lost the 'race' the day the First Fleet set sail from England. Never had a chance. Primitive tribal cultures don't have a chance.






Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #79 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:14am
 
Quote:
C'mon Grumble....you can do better than that!!


As usual its always you who starts it Amad.  Ok you want to keep playing it that way...  I can stoop to your level as I' have had to so many times in the past.

I did answer your question.
You are a liar and too lazy apparently to look at another page.
Stop lying you lazy haggis and read what i wrote b4.
No use jumping in on a topic and blaming others for your short comings.
I asked you for a reasoned argument and all i get is lies.

Do try again  or just go away.
I was interested in your opinion.  was...
But now I realise it's like so much of your past opinion...  just a brain fart.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #80 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:20am
 
Sorry Soren, I disagree...
(Mind you I like the current flag)

Well I support a hybrid UFlag as i said because it incorporates our heritage and history as a nation.  Like it or not the British gave us just about everything that made us what we are today.  Most of our culture, law, government/political system, architecture, arts, sport, language, etc, etc, etc...

I happen to recognise 2 distinct "Australian" cultures...  the indigenous and the western...  I think most Australians do.  Globally however the Australian western culture is the dominant one.  (Stereotypes and all).

Many flags have the Union Flag on it.  Commonwealth countries in particular.  To me it is like being called junior.

So i look at it in the light that when we grow up we have our own version of the Union Flag an Australian hybrid.  This maintains our ties with history and heritage.  

Bleeding in the Aboriginal colours is in my view an act of symbolic reconcilliation.  It cements them as a indelible part of our nation.  And puts to bed forever claims of being excluded and marginalised.

I have several versions of a draft at home.

The flag can be seen as a form of Union Flaq, locking in our western history and heritage and also our  indigenous history and heritage.  It has the Southern Cross at its centre identifying our place in the world and if you look carefully it can be seen as 8 spearheads pointing to the stars.

You also cant confuse it with either the Union Flag or the NZ flag.  Good for the olympics and commonwealth games.  Grin

As for the anglophobia...  that's just childish.

So in the spirit of reconciliation and in recognition of our past history and heritage...  voila.

Mind you I have various colour versions which all look good .  (Or horrid if you are Amadd apparently)
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:30am by Grendel »  
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #81 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:56am
 
Grendel wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:20am:
I happen to recognise 2 distinct "Australian" cultures...  the indigenous and the western...  I think most Australians do.  Globally however the Australian western culture is the dominant one.  (Stereotypes and all).



Sorry, I do not see that Aboroginal culture would rank anywhere other than the periphery as ethnographic curio. I say this because whatever you or others or me might recognise as Aboriginal cultrure, it has absolutely no impact on our lives. It has not made us in any way. We know of it but our lives are organised and conbducted with absolutely no reference to it.
Outside ecology it is negligible and when noticed it is mostly for its wretchedness.


Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2009 at 9:30am by Soren »  
 
IP Logged
 
Kytro
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #82 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 9:11am
 
I happen to like the sunburnt flag - it just looks good.  I have always found the union jack to look tacky.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #83 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 9:51am
 
Well it does have an impact on our society still.  You'd be blind to not notice. 

Did you see the opening ceremony for the Olympics? 
Did you see Australia?
Do you know of Cathy Freeman, David Gulpilil, Noel Pearson, Lionel Rose, Neville Bonner, Aden Ridgeway, Ernie Dingo, etc, etc, etc.?

Are you aware of Australian Aborigines?
Do you recognise them as indigenous to Australia?
Do you recognise they were here before European settlement and that they are still here?   

Do you deny that Aborigines had an impact on the development of the Australian culture, language and character?

Do you know what a boomerang is?  A didgeridoo?  A billabong? A kangaroo? Humpy? Corroboree?
Do you know what "gone walkabout" means?
Where is the opera house?
Whats woomera?
Heard of native title or mabo?
Can you recognise Aboriginal Artwork?

Quote:
Aboriginal words have always had a very prominent use in Australian English. For example, Australia’s unofficial national anthem, Waltzing Matilda, uses Aboriginal words like coolibah, jumbuck and billabong. Likewise, most of rural Australia has been given Aboriginal names like Wagga Wagga, Joondalup, Bondi, Yakadanda.

Perhaps the lazy way that Australians are perceived to speak is a result of using the Aboriginal words. The Aboriginal words generally end with a vowel sound, which is quite smooth and pleasant on the ear. It is possible that the use of the diminuitive, such as shortening words like journalist to journo, was a way of smoothing over the rough edges of British English in order to gain more consistency with the smoother Aboriginal English.


http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/aborigines.html
Quote:
Aboriginal identities

As the colony expanded out from Sydney, the Europeans came into conflict with Aborigines over land. Although tribal identities remained, the Europeans started to take the place of rival tribes as the principle enemy.

Although there was hostility, there was also friendship. Some Aborigines left their tribes and formed good relations with the native born. They worked as droving hands and sang songs with the other drovers. Aside from being admired for their lyrical ability, they were admired for their bush skills. In a sense, their knowledge of the land had them admired as the protypical bushman.

Reflecting the admiration for the Aborigines is the use of Aboriginal place names for rural Australia.


Quote:
The Aboriginal Victim

By the end of World War II, Aboriginal tribal identities had eroded to the extent that white people stopped seeing differences between Aboriginal tribes and instead began viewing them as a homogenous out-group. Names for individual tribes faded away and instead Aborigines, the generic word for an indigenous population, came into use by default.

Aborigines also stopped thinking in cultural terms and instead began to think of themselves in racial terms. Blacks were part of their in-group while all whites were the out-group invaders. Asians were in an undefined category.

Aborigines developed a strong identification with black power movements from America. They assimilated rap music, and the baggy style of clothes. Oddly, many Aborigines became Rastarian; except they dropped the green from the colour coding. (Rastafarism is a pseudo-Christian based religion developed by the descendents of slaves wanting to show pride in their African heritage. Its name comes from Prince Rastafari of Ethiopia.)

Perhaps assessments of Aborigines also went downhill in mainstream society. When the bush was held up as the "true Australia" the Aborigines were celebrated as the prototypical bushmen. As the bush lost its iconic status, so too did the Aborigines that lived in it.

Expression - Aboriginal flag, protest marches, music, Aboriginal tent embassy, defiance of white authority

"Our world was shattered by the violence of the Invasion which began when the First Fleet of British Boat people arrived in 1788. Our people were decimated, as the invaders stole our country, imposed their own laws and systems of government on our peoples, forcing our people into concentration camps called "missions". " Aboriginal activist

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
locutius
Gold Member
*****
Offline


You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #84 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 11:44am
 
I say no to the current aboriginal flag, for no other reason than I think it is an ugly flag.
Back to top
 

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #85 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 12:29pm
 
Who suggested the current aboriginal flag?  I missed that.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #86 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:05pm
 
I like the southern cross, and would be happy with a slightly modernised, stylised version of the southern cross, on a blue background, with perhaps a red dot perimeter, which would give us the traditional, red, white, and blue, and the dots as a nod to aboriginal culture.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #87 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:38pm
 
This one used to get plugged a fair bit a few years ago. Minus the pictures acourse.

...
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:45pm by NorthOfNorth »  

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
locutius
Gold Member
*****
Offline


You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #88 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:10pm
 
The aboriginal flag was suggested as being a part of a new flag. I am amicable to something representing the ancient culture that includes ideas possibly along the lines Mozz and Helian suggested. So far though, I have to admit to liking the existing flag the most.
Back to top
 

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
IP Logged
 
tallowood
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4230
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #89 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:24pm
 
I don't really care about flags as symbols but just for the fun of it I offer a completely new and original concept of having the Australian flag made of completely transparent material so we can see through it all the wonderful things around us like our southern sky, drop bears on gum trees, fishes and other creatures in seas, rivers and dams, etc., etc., etc..
Back to top
 

Reality is a figment of imagination
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #90 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 4:16pm
 
Quote:
Do try again  or just go away.
I was interested in your opinion.  was...
But now I realise it's like so much of your past opinion...  just a brain fart.


Grin

Well obviously you still see yourself as being above criticism.

If you'd take a look at what the Union Jack actually is, and why it cannot be altered, then you'd see why I consider your "chuck together" as being "horrid".
The union flag is the St. George's Cross (England), the St. Andrew's Cross (Scotland) and St. Patrick's Cross (Ireland) layered on top of each other to signify the union. How on earth can you just throw in some aboriginal colours and call it an Australian flag? It doesn't make sense.




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #91 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 4:45pm
 
tallowood wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:24pm:
I don't really care about flags as symbols but just for the fun of it I offer a completely new and original concept of having the Australian flag made of completely transparent material so we can see through it all the wonderful things around us like our southern sky, drop bears on gum trees, fishes and other creatures in seas, rivers and dams, etc., etc., etc..



Hmm... A see-through polymer flag with a hologram perhaps . Not bad.  Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #92 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 4:47pm
 
locutius wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:10pm:
The aboriginal flag was suggested as being a part of a new flag. I am amicable to something representing the ancient culture that includes ideas possibly along the lines Mozz and Helian suggested. So far though, I have to admit to liking the existing flag the most.



Ideas - there's the rub. None of the 'ideas' on the aborigan flag are aboriginal ideas. They are adverising agency types' ideas of aboriginal ideas.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #93 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:51pm
 
ROTFLMAO...

gee Amadd imagine that...  my design is NOT the Union Flag.  Who'd a thunk it.

Well if you could bring yourself to read anything instead of farting through your mouth, then you'd see i already said it was not the Union Flag.   having been a Cub which mantra would remember me stating you'd know that I have a great deal of knowledge about the Australian flag and the Union Flag and how it was developed.

the reason it is a hybrid is so that it is NOT the UNION FLAG but still is reminiscent of our heritage as a nation.

As for horrid...  I hardly think you really have a clue why you think that apart from it being my design.  So far there is no reasonable reason proffered by you.

I suggest once again that you actually READ what was written then come up with some negative nonsense.

Ah loc...  the aboriginal flag was designed by an aborigina; not an ad company and adopted by aborigines as representing their "nation".
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #94 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 9:58pm
 
Quote:
gee Amadd imagine that...  my design is NOT the Union Flag.  Who'd a thunk it.


Not me.
I couldn't imagine that you hadn't taken the original union flag and bastardised it into something completely meaningless.

Quote:
Well if you could bring yourself to read anything instead of farting through your mouth, then you'd see i already said it was not the Union Flag.


You said you'd bleed in the aboriginal colours as a symbolic gesture? Oh how very.

Quote:
As for horrid...  I hardly think you really have a clue why you think that apart from it being my design.


There were plenty of other designs which I see as horrid also. It just so happens that I think yours is right up there in the horridness stakes.
Also, you may note that I originally assumed that the sunburnt flag was Bob George's design; it turns out that it is professionally designed. So I picked the professionally designed flag far and above yours. Go figure.
Now if you want me to say that I like your design, and I find it to be meaningful and significant, then that would be a lie.




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #95 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 11:28pm
 
meaningless...  ah lets see creating a new australian flag is meaningless...   to you maybe dunderhead.

It's a pity you are still the useless fathead you've always been haggis... next time read stuff before you put your oversized feet in your mouth ok.

"bleed' is actually a technical term...  oh I'm sorry...  how remiss of me. technical isn't your forte either is it...  not reading, not thinking and nothing technical.   I didn't say "bleeding" in the colours was a symbolic gesture liar liar pants on fire...  I said the use of the aboriginal colours was.  you ass...

So all you can do is lie to try and back up your opinion now...  well done.

Actually all I wanted from you...  silly me...  was some reason and logic.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #96 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 11:36pm
 
Grendel wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 11:28pm:
meaningless...  ah lets see creating a new australian flag is meaningless...   to you maybe dunderhead.

It's a pity you are still the useless fathead you've always been haggis... next time read stuff before you put your oversized feet in your mouth ok.

"bleed' is actually a technical term...  oh I'm sorry...  how remiss of me. technical isn't your forte either is it...  not reading, not thinking and nothing technical.   I didn't say "bleeding" in the colours was a symbolic gesture liar liar pants on fire...  I said the use of the aboriginal colours was.  you ass...

So all you can do is lie to try and back up your opinion now...  well done.

Actually all I wanted from you...  silly me...  was some reason and logic.


Just shut up and take the pills, pussy pants.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #97 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 11:00am
 
Oh. whatsup copping a beating elsewhere helian

he's a twat...  and he can like it or lump it

i don't have to let his lies and stupidity go uncommented on.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #98 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 9:19pm
 
If you think your flag is so fantasmagorical Grumble, then why don't you submit it somewhere so that it can be officially rejected?
I'm sticking with my original assessment of an aboriginal dad's army, but from another perspective it looks a bit like a squashed spider.

If you removed a few of the lines and colours, you could almost get a Swedish flag out of it - that's not a bad looking flag.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #99 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 9:59pm
 
ROTFLMAO

can't be Dad's army remember...  it's not a proper union jack   Grin

You can't even lie straight in bed.

You try submitting something to Ausflag see how you go...  They quite conveniently don't accept entries at certain times and then suddenly do if you know someone.

As for the Swedes...  yes part of its appeal... good design and colours.

As for mine...  I have several versions.  I don't care personally if YOU like it or not.  I just wanted some sort of proper appraisal and not some childish jibber.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #100 - Mar 22nd, 2009 at 1:11pm
 
Quote:
ROTFLMAO

can't be Dad's army remember...  it's not a proper union jack  


I did say "an aboriginal version" of dad's army didn't I?

And I see that you're now into the hysterical laughter stage, meaning that you must be right if you find it so hilariously funny.
A DWMT must only be a post or two away now.

Quote:
You try submitting something to Ausflag see how you go...  They quite conveniently don't accept entries at certain times and then suddenly do if you know someone.


I don't have enough desire to change the current flag to be bothered attempting something new.
But seeing that you've apparently tried to submit your.. ahem...design, I'll try to be a little more concise on what I don't like about it - even though you don't deserve it because your insults did hurt my feelings so  Cry

Personally, I think that first impressions for something such as a nation's flag are the best. I looked at your flag...went erghhh, and that's good enough for me. No amount of explanation will change a first glance impression.

You say it's a "hybrid" union jack. That to me doesn't make any sense, because the union jack itself is a hybrid of three flags. By changing the colours, you're destroying the underlying flags within the union jack and rendering them non-existent.
So IMO, the union jack comes as a whole or not at all.

And I wouldn't care which colours you use, any colours besides the originals means destroying the underlying flags and the entire meaning of the union jack.

The symbolic gesture of throwing in some aboriginal colours does appear to be just that, "symbolic". I doubt if any aboriginal person would be too impressed to see those colours in amongst a union jacky type thingo.

On the up side, I do like the shape. I think a rectangle is a good shape for a flag.





Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2009 at 1:45pm by Amadd »  
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #101 - Mar 22nd, 2009 at 5:06pm
 
I'm not going to waste my time anymore...  no point arguing about things you don't understand or that don't make sense to you...  a huge category no doubt.

As for your assumptions....  well you always assume and you always turn out to be an ass.

As for insults yours usually exist before mine do.

What is beyond me is the fact you can't get it into your head that it is a NEW flag not a copy or an existing one.

As for your reasons...  they border on childish and irrational.
But hey I doubt that you'd be alone in that.  I just hope the country has more people who aren't regardless of my design.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2009 at 7:29am by Grendel »  
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #102 - Mar 22nd, 2009 at 5:16pm
 
Quote:
I'm not going to waste my time anymore...  


Is that a union jack version of DWMT?
OMG, nowonder I win so much at poker. Even when I give a heads up, the spinners still come in.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #103 - Mar 23rd, 2009 at 7:28am
 
yawn...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Amadd
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mo

Posts: 6217
Re: Australian Flag
Reply #104 - Mar 23rd, 2009 at 4:37pm
 
Please allow me to open this previously written piece of folded white paper and let's see what written inside.

Ah yess....there it is...."yaawwnn".

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print