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Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME (Read 21413 times)
Grendel
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Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Feb 12th, 2009 at 11:34am
 
GREENIES TO BLAME TO VICTORIAN BUSHFIRE DEATHS

Miranda Devine

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/green-ideas-must-take-blame-for-deaths-20090211-84mk.html

t wasn't climate change which killed as many as 300 people in Victoria last weekend. It wasn't arsonists. It was the unstoppable intensity of a bushfire, turbo-charged by huge quantities of ground fuel which had been allowed to accumulate over years of drought. It was the power of green ideology over government to oppose attempts to reduce fuel hazards before a megafire erupts, and which prevents landholders from clearing vegetation to protect themselves.

So many people need not have died so horribly. The warnings have been there for a decade. If politicians are intent on whipping up a lynch mob to divert attention from their own culpability, it is not arsonists who should be hanging from lamp-posts but greenies.

Governments appeasing the green beast have ignored numerous state and federal bushfire inquiries over the past decade, almost all of which have recommended increasing the practice of "prescribed burning". Also known as "hazard reduction", it is a methodical regime of burning off flammable ground cover in cooler months, in a controlled fashion, so it does not fuel the inevitable summer bushfires.

In July 2007 Scott Gentle, the Victorian manager of Timber Communities Australia, who lives in Healesville where two fires were still burning yesterday, gave testimony to a Victorian parliamentary bushfire inquiry so prescient it sends a chill down your spine.

"Living in an area like Healesville, whether because of dumb luck or whatever, we have not experienced a fire … since … about 1963. God help us if we ever do, because it will make Ash Wednesday look like a picnic." God help him, he was right.

Gentle complained of obstruction from green local government authorities of any type of fire mitigation strategies. He told of green interference at Kinglake - at the epicentre of Saturday's disaster, where at least 147 people died - during a smaller fire there in 2007.

"The contractors were out working on the fire lines. They put in containment lines and cleared off some of the fire trails. Two weeks later that fire broke out, but unfortunately those trails had been blocked up again [by greens] to turn it back to its natural state … Instances like that are just too numerous to mention. Governments … have been in too much of a rush to appease green idealism … This thing about locking up forests is just not working

.The Kinglake area was a nature-loving community of tree-changers, organic farmers and artists to the north of Melbourne. A council committed to reducing carbon emissions dominates the Nillumbik shire, a so-called "green wedge" area, where restrictions on removing vegetation around houses reportedly added to the dangers. In nearby St Andrews, where more than 20 people are believed to have died, surviving residents have spoken angrily of "greenies" who prevented them from cutting back trees near their property, including in one case, a tea tree that went "whoomp". Dr Phil Cheney, the former head of the CSIRO's bushfire research unit and one of the pioneers of prescribed burning, said yesterday if the fire-ravaged Victorian areas had been hazard-reduced, the flames would not have been as intense.

Kinglake and Maryville, now crime scenes, are built among tall forests of messmate stringy bark trees which pose a special fire hazard, with peeling bark creating firebrands that carry fire five kilometres out. "The only way to reduce the flammability of the bark is by prescribed burning" every five to seven years, Cheney said. He estimates between 35 and 50 tonnes a hectare of dry fuel were waiting to be gobbled up by Saturday's inferno.

Fuel loads above about eight tonnes a hectare are considered a fire hazard. A federal parliamentary inquiry into bushfires in 2003 heard that a fourfold increase in ground fuel leads to a 13-fold increase in the heat generated by a fire.

Things are no better in NSW, although we don't quite have Victoria's perfect storm of winds and forest types. Near Dubbo two years ago, as a bushfire raged through the Goonoo Community Conservation Area, volunteer firefighters bulldozing a control line were obstructed by National Parks and Wildlife Service employees who had driven from Sydney to stop vegetation being damaged.

The poor management of national parks and state forests in Victoria is highlighted by the interactive fire map on the website of the Department of Sustainability and Environment. Yesterday it showed that, of 148 fires started since mid-January, 120 started in state forests, national parks, or other public land, and just 21 on private property.

Only seven months ago, the Victorian Parliament's Environment and Natural Resources Committee tabled its report into the impact of public land management on bushfires, with five recommendations to enhance prescribed burning. This included tripling the amount of land to be hazard-reduced from 130,000 to 385,000 hectares a year. There has been little but lip service from the Government in response. Teary politicians might pepper their talking points with opportunistic intimations of "climate change" and "unprecedented" weather, but they are only diverting the blame. With yes-minister fudging and craven inclusion of green lobbyists in decision-making, they have greatly exacerbated this tragedy.

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skippy
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 1:18pm
 
Well if Divine says it, it must be true.
Who is this Green beast? in which state do they hold government? oh thats right, its just more s hit from the regresive rightards who hate not being in power.
Could you post Mz Divines credentials for making such outlandish claims?
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2009 at 1:54pm by N/A »  
 
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locutius
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 1:39pm
 
Grendal I think there is a strong element of truth to what she says, but when when she also says "It wasn't the arsonists", that's like taking credibility and throttling it barehanded in a public place.
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skippy
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #3 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 1:42pm
 
[ Cheesy
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2009 at 1:57pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #4 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 2:09pm
 
I've heard similar claims before, but they tend to be a bit short on evidence. I suspect the Greens (the party) once had a policy of encouraging the growth of trees in Northern NSW that do not encourage fires in the same way eucalypts do, to 'transform' it into wet, damp forest that doesn't burn. Last time I checked I couldn't see anything about it. I think most Australians do understand the basic fire management principles.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 2:41pm
 
Yes FD. And like you has said before in another related topic. You pick where you want to live and there are tradeoffs no matter where that is. I don't wish to downplay the hurt in anyway, but living in the bush in Australia means living with the annual threat of bush fires. Proper management will not eliminate the danger but can reduce it.

There is nothing quite like have native animals having folige access right up to your doorstep or verandah, but so does fire.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 5:45pm
 
Even though this attack, is largely ideologically inspired, the fact remains that a strong green lobby has overseen an unquestioning acceptance of unproven environmental principles, inspired by emotive, rather than scientific, or practical attitudes, to land management in bushfire prone areas.

To hypothesise just how people would have fared if other policies were in place, is pure guesswork, and the whole question of habitation, and land management in bushfire prone areas, will come under close scrutiny in the Victorian Royal Commission to be convened to examine the causes, and effects of these fires.

I think that the correct thing to do at this point, is to not pre-empt the findings, in an attempt to make political points.
It is far too important,an issue, and far too painful a subject for those who have lost so much, to allow anything less than allowing the Commission to fully evaluate all the evidence, before making pronouncements intended to blame and shame.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 5:58pm
 
Quote:
the fact remains that a strong green lobby has overseen an unquestioning acceptance of unproven environmental principles, inspired by emotive, rather than scientific, or practical attitudes, to land management in bushfire prone areas


Can you back this 'fact' up? It seems more like an old bogeyman.

Quote:
To hypothesise just how people would have fared if other policies were in place, is pure guesswork, and the whole question of habitation, and land management in bushfire prone areas, will come under close scrutiny in the Victorian Royal Commission to be convened to examine the causes, and effects of these fires.


The question of habitation will not come up. It is perfectly safe to live there if you take appropriate precautions. What will come up is whether people should stay there when a fire passes through, and whether the government should advise them to stay there.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 6:57pm
 
Quote:
GREENIES TO BLAME TO VICTORIAN BUSHFIRE DEATHS


Sheikh Haron (?) takes full responsibility for it because Australians had to be punished for endorsing the execution of the three Bali bombers and Pastor Danny Nalliah says it's retribution for women having abortions - so now we're supposed to believe the Greens are responsible?

It's a bit lame blaming others for the poor management of the State Government who disregarded the ENRC report and all of its recommendations.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #9 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:22pm
 
I agree with mozzaok evaluation in general but want to point out that I personally know some hippies from 60s who still live in dense forests that burn every few years but those old hippies are still alive because they don't rely on government regulations but on themselves. Houses made of mud bricks are build on top of underground cellar and it takes less then one minute to get whole family in and up to one or two weeks to seat there drinking home brew and eating home produce foods. The only downsize of it is the smell of that horrible weed that they have bad habit to smoke. Got pictures of it before and after bushfire somewhere.

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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #10 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:29pm
 
Quote:
Quote:
the fact remains that a strong green lobby has overseen an unquestioning acceptance of unproven environmental principles, inspired by emotive, rather than scientific, or practical attitudes, to land management in bushfire prone areas


Can you back this 'fact' up? It seems more like an old bogeyman.



No I can't FD.
Basically it is a mixture of observation, and anecdotal evidence, which led me to make that statement.
If we were to examine just how many councils, in these areas, restricted fuel reduction practices, because of advice from "green" groups, I expect there would be hard evidence there to back my claims, but I do not have that information at hand.
So you can change my statement from, "the fact remains", to, "my observations lead me to believe", if you think it conveys the point more appropriately.

Quote:
Quote:
To hypothesise just how people would have fared if other policies were in place, is pure guesswork, and the whole question of habitation, and land management in bushfire prone areas, will come under close scrutiny in the Victorian Royal Commission to be convened to examine the causes, and effects of these fires.


The question of habitation will not come up. It is perfectly safe to live there if you take appropriate precautions. What will come up is whether people should stay there when a fire passes through, and whether the government should advise them to stay there.


Well, you are totally wrong again FD.
I have already told the story here, of my experiences of the Dandenong Ranges fire of 1997, where three people died, fifty metres from my Mum's back door, while seeking shelter in their semi underground, solid brick garage.
I did not go into much detail, but the home they were in was in a street called, Seabreeze Ave, and it was the last street of houses before the forest.
It had not always been so, prior to 1969, there were more streets behind it, extending further down the hill.
In 1969, there were bad fires in the area, and nearly all the houses in that downhill area, were burnt down.
Because of the topography of the area, being a curving downhill slope, that creates a funnel effect when any fire come through, the council changed the zoning of the area, away from residential, and the people were not allowed to build on it any more, which was the correct decision to make.

To see you continue to make these statements about this issue, when you clearly have no experience, and very little knowledge, is not doing your credibility any favours.

So, I still contend that the issue of where people are allowed to build, specifically in relation to local fire history, and predictable fire behaviour patterns, in regard to the local topography, will be very much a part of the recommendations that we see handed down.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #11 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 8:09pm
 
When it comes to human lives and the maintenance of firebreaks around housing areas, I must agree that it is necessary to do this, and I've always believed that.

Apart from that there are strong arguments in favour of firebreaks to protect natural vegetation and parklands, because if we can limit the area burnt, then we can reduce the damage done by bushfires.

Some of the attitudes of councils against felling of trees in settled areas quite frankly needs to change. I think that a lot of the damage was done more by misguided council policies than the effects of any green lobby. Most environmental professionals would probably share my attitude on this.

(By the way this board is hereby declared free of thinly disguised attacks on Muslims or any other religions. If you object to this and can get the backing of FD to restore any deleted posts, I will gladly step down as moderator. )
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #12 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 9:01pm
 
To deny the green politics in this is to be in denial...
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #13 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 9:26pm
 
I've always thought the greens tended to support burining off. It fits in well with the whole 'aboriginal custodians fo the land' thing.

I spoke to an ecologist about this yesterday and he pointed out that too much burning off can increase the risk of crown fires. You burn out the lower story and let the crown build up, but the lower story never gets enough fuel to ignite the crown. So in a hundred years time when the crown finally does go up, it is worse than ever. That is, burning off too often can make crown fires rarer but more intense. I think it's called the 'Yellowstone effect' after the park in California.
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2009 at 9:18am
 
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