Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Iran launches its first satellite (Read 7299 times)
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #30 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 4:46pm
 
Lestat wrote on Feb 12th, 2009 at 10:21pm:
lol...Lizzie. Is this the best you can come up. Reflects actually on how stupid you are.

And the sad thing you actually think its clever.

BWAHAHAHAHA

No, we're winning because we have morons like you to contend with. Small play really, we just let you continously shoot yourself in the foot.

Cheesy




'winning', girl, 'winning'.




Back to top
 

No one has the right not to be offended.
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #31 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 7:15am
 
freediver,
Quote:
The Islamic empire was not the last empire to be dismantled...
Quote:
So what?


Come on fd, surely you get the relevance of that? you implied it's a uniquely Islamic trait that caused the Ottomans to try and cling onto the age of empires. I merely pointed out Muslims weren't the only ones.

Quote:
So Islam is backwards now?


Completely irrelevant question. Islam isn't even implemented now, for it to be considered backwards or not.

Quote:
Why do you expect it to play catch-up in the future?


Again, completely irrelevant question. A state only really plays catch up when it's already in the game, and is lagging behind. When entering the game, it must do so at the current "stage" of the game, and therefore wouldn't be playing catch up, would it?

Quote:
It is not a democracy. Just because the clerics try to pull the strings from behind the scenes does not mean it isn't a dictatorship


As I've tried to inform you enough times already, there's no such thing as a position called "cleric" in Islam, neither by that name, nor by an Arabic equivalent, nor even by the meaning. Such a position simply doesn't exist in the structure of the Caliphate. This is just a poor attempt to translate Christianity's structure onto your view of Islam, sorry but it doesn't always work out so neat and even.

Try judging Islam within it's own context, not just translating your ideas of Christianity onto it. "If Christianity is a religion and has clerics, and Islam is a religion, then it must also have clerics", this is a logical fallacy, and you well know it.

Quote:
No you didn't. If you had, I wouldn't have such basic questions going unanswered


You asked the question about where slaves and war booty can be taken, the answer is in the common misconceptions thread. End of story.

Not to mention the fact I've already stated several times in many threads you're involved in, that it relates to the Pagan Arab custom of taking women and riches into battle... Anyway when you wanna accept my answer, it's been given. If you choose not to,  good for you.

Quote:
Like on Answering Islam?


Yeh... anti-Islamic websites, sure... that's exactly what I meant. Is it that hard for you to actually look up Islamic websites, and see what they have to say? Are you incapable of browsing to anything other than jihadwatch or answering-islam.com? But you don't want pre-fab answers, you want me to be your personal answer-bot, as I said previously, sorry I'm not your lackey.

I answer what I like, when I like. I've answered probably 10 times more questions for you, than you've ever done for me. I've asked you so many things that you've just passed over... ever see me whinging and carrying on like this? in some lame attempt to claim victory because the other side doesn't answer? Grow up fd.

Quote:
Is it any wonder that so many wild accusations about Islam get taken seriously


They get taken seriously because Islamophobes wanna believe them, not because of lack of access to Islamic sources.

I remember back when I was searching about different religions. I found Islam to be the most forthcoming. Try digging up detailed information, like you can find about Islam, on any other religions beliefs, you simply won't find it. It's difficult to come by.

Islam is honest, you are not.

Quote:
I believe that only Islam makes a doctrine out of building an expansionist military empire.


Good for you. As I said, nothing in Islam that states "build an expansionist empire" sorry.

Quote:
Islam is unique in commanding its spread by the sword.


Strawman, Islam doesn't command it's spread by the sword.

Quote:
The fact that they were a product of their times does not mean it wasn't nasty.


Well no more than states are nasty today, as a product of their own times. The problem is fd, you view them in a vaccum, and you do use today's standards as your yardstick, by which to measure them. By today's standards, yes they would be considered nastier. I agree.

Quote:
Did Jesus go round killing people? Did Moses? Did Budda?


I can't seriously believe you put Moses (pbuh) in there!! Didn't you say you read the Bible before??? Did you just skip over the parts where God supposedly commanded Moses (pbuh) to kill men, women, children, old young, maidens, pregnant women etc. ???

You truly are a goose. Did you think slipping that in between two known pacifists might pass undetected??? Or are you just really ignorant about such things? Besides, there are a few passages of the Bible, which indicate Jesus (pbuh) was not necessarily a pacifist. Likewise, assuming his entire life is documented in the Bible, would be a little more than naive.

No doubt now you're going to flip flop and claim "But they don't follow the doctrines in the Bible anymore". So when it suits you to judge Islam based on what's in it's texts rather than their actions, you'll do so, then when it comes to Christianity/Judaism you judge them on their actions, not their text.. Make up your mind. Do you judge a religion based on it's texts or it's actions?

Quote:
I am a bigot because I don't have a rpoblem with proselytising religions other than Islam? Can you explain that please?


Exactly.

(note: your statement has been modified to reflect truthfully what it was in response to. ie. that you don't have a problem with proselytising religions other than Islam, please be honest from now on fd)
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #32 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 7:43am
 
Quote:
Abu, you yourself say you support stoning women to death


I do? Really? Can you provide a link/quote? Perhaps it's in that thread where I said I support stoning people to death who have bad penmanship?

Sensationalist lines like this "you support stoning women to death" really do nothing more than take any impact, that might've been in your argument, out of it. Nowhere did I specifically state I support stoning women to death any more than I support stoning red haired people to death or people who own an odd pair of socks or people who live north of the tropic of capricorn and you well know it. So why do you insist with this nonsense?

It leads me to believe you just want your arguments to be dismissed.. or you're just a bit dense.

Quote:
Why not? Are you saying another 'evil empire' could never arise again? It's been less than a century since the Nazis tried to take over the world. That's a bit naive don't you think?


It's highly unlikely any more empires will be arising again, as we know them. Look at the world's response to the Nazi empire. It wouldn't have been all that much different even if they didn't kill lots of people, the world simply isn't a place for empires anymore. They simply don't fit into the geo-political landscape anymore.

Quote:
Crap Abu. The US does not call for the death penalty of those who think freedom and democracy is a bad idea... ...does not mean that Islam's death penalty for apostasy can be equated with America's penalty for treasoin.


US citizens who reject US freedom and democracy, and embrace Communism, can and have been executed for doing so. And if Senator Joe had had his way, it would not have had to have involved a conviction for spying.

Anyway, this was a comparative analogy, I wasn't claiming the two death penalties are exactly alike, they are not. Although I do consider it to be treason, and that's what's mentioned in the hadiths about it, quite clearly.

You claimed that it's "crap" that Islam spreads by people recognising the truth of it  and embracing it, BECAUSE of the fact the death penalty exists for apostates. Now that's no more correct than the assertion that the US doesn't believe in freedom and democracy, BECAUSE of the fact it calls for the death penalty for those who reject those things, and embrace another ideology, committing treason against the state. Nowhere does that analogy maintain that the two death penalties are identical in their details.

I really shouldn't need to explain this kind of stuff for you. Stop *digging* for points... it does nothing but indicate desperation.

Quote:
The Islamic empire was not imperialistic in the sense all European powers were. Quote:
Yes it was.


No it was not. I did explain some of the reasons why, it would've been better if you addressed them, rather than just saying "Yes it is".

Quote:
EXcept it never actually happened that way in practice did it? And Dhimmis are given second class status, not the 'exact same' status. Islam creates an Apartheid regime.


And you claim you don't ask loaded questions.

Even if we accept the loaded component of your question, that dhimmis are relegated to second class status (which they most certainly are not), that wouldn't refute my claim that the Caliphate made the peoples of conquered lands full and equal citizens, because any Muslims in those lands would be full and equal citizens, unlike the European empires, who did not. But who held the lands as a possession to pillage and plunder, whilst the people just remained like slaves, subjects who could only be transported to other colonies to perform labour. Even if the subjects of a colony embraced Christianity, as many foolishly did, they were still much worse off than a dhimmi in the Caliphate (according to your second class citizen claim). But hey, at least they'd be equal with all the non-Christian 'subjects' of the colony right?? None of this second class slaves business here!!

Quote:
Capital punishment is prescribed in the Islamic texts, militant expansionism is not, that's why
Quote:
So the 'liberation' of Spain was not military expansionism? Or is this just another example of you changing the English language to make Islam seem more politically correct?


No, it's another case of you trying to change the context of the argument.

You responded to my assertion that military expansionism is not in the Islamic texts, by questioning if the 'liberation' of Spain was military expansionism. Whether it was or wasn't, doesn't tell us anything about what's in the Islamic texts, does it fd?

Quote:
Why did you keep bringing up Spain as an example of how 'nicely' Islam slaughtered people?


Spain is an example of how Islam spread at the request of the Christians themselves, nothing more, nor have I claimed it as anything else. Another loaded question from the person who claims he doesn't load questions.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2009 at 7:58am by abu_rashid »  
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 35539
At my desk.
Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #33 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 10:46pm
 
Quote:
Come on fd, surely you get the relevance of that? you implied it's a uniquely Islamic trait that caused the Ottomans to try and cling onto the age of empires. I merely pointed out Muslims weren't the only ones.


Muslims are the only ones who are still clinging to it. Everyone else has come to their senses.

Quote:
Completely irrelevant question. Islam isn't even implemented now, for it to be considered backwards or not.


Haven't we been over this before? Islam can be backwards even if it is not implimented. We can still talk about Islamic doctrine even if there is no Caliphate. Get it?

Quote:
Again, completely irrelevant question. A state only really plays catch up when it's already in the game, and is lagging behind. When entering the game, it must do so at the current "stage" of the game, and therefore wouldn't be playing catch up, would it?


Again, it is a very relevant question. Quit the silly games Abu. You can't deflect to 'Islam doesn't exist' every time you get a difficult question.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Deception_of_Non-Muslims#Islam_doe...

Quote:
As I've tried to inform you enough times already, there's no such thing as a position called "cleric" in Islam, neither by that name, nor by an Arabic equivalent, nor even by the meaning. Such a position simply doesn't exist in the structure of the Caliphate. This is just a poor attempt to translate Christianity's structure onto your view of Islam, sorry but it doesn't always work out so neat and even.


We've been over this too Abu. No it isn't Abu. As I have told you, cleric is the common English term used to describe a Muslim in a religious leadership position. Until Muslims can offer up a single generic word, rather than insisting people learn the dozen or so specific ones before they will even discuss an issue, they will have to put up with the inevitable. If you have the specific word, supply it. If you don't know what the specific word is, don;t criticis others for not knowing, and don;'t use it as yet another excuse to worm your way out of a difficult point.

Quote:
Try judging Islam within it's own context, not just translating your ideas of Christianity onto it. "If Christianity is a religion and has clerics, and Islam is a religion, then it must also have clerics", this is a logical fallacy, and you well know it.


I'm not doing that Abu. As I have pointed out countless times, in this context Islamic cleric does not imply an equivalent to the Christian position. So get over it already. It is you who is unnecessarily projecting the Christian context onto the Islamic one. No-one else here is confused about it, only you. I have told you what I mean. I have told you what the word means. All that is left is for you to understand it.

Quote:
You asked the question about where slaves and war booty can be taken, the answer is in the common misconceptions thread. End of story.


There are no answers in the common misconceptions thread. Only deflections. For example, I did not ask about where slaves and war booty can be taken. This is judst another example of you making up a question you can answer to avoid the one you don;t want to answer. Let me be the judge of whether it clarifies anything to me. You may think it is wonderful. I think it is completely useless. I suggest you use it to answer your questions instead of pretending it answers mine.

Quote:
Yeh... anti-Islamic websites, sure... that's exactly what I meant. Is it that hard for you to actually look up Islamic websites, and see what they have to say?


I wnat an answer to a specific question, not another fluff piece. Sure, I could find a dozen different answers to my question, all saying something different. Then I would have a dozen more questions that you are unwilling to answer. So stop rpetending that 'google it' is a useful answer. If you are ashamed of your religion, why pretend to be open and honest about it?

Quote:
Are you incapable of browsing to anything other than jihadwatch or answering-islam.com?


I have never browsed either. I don't pretend to be able to judge what is a real Muslim belief and what isn't. That is whole point of asking a Muslim. Get it?

Quote:
I answer what I like, when I like. I've answered probably 10 times more questions for you, than you've ever done for me. I've asked you so many things that you've just passed over... ever see me whinging and carrying on like this? in some lame attempt to claim victory because the other side doesn't answer? Grow up fd.


Grin Grin Like when you told me I was a zionist and I had to answer questions about Zionism?

Quote:
They get taken seriously because Islamophobes wanna believe them, not because of lack of access to Islamic sources.


But I clearly didn't believe them when Lestat and sprint were posting them. I only believed Islam was barbaric when you confirmed some of the nastier aspects. Yet you still insist on the tired old line of us all being Islamophobes for no valid reason who never listen to what Muslims actually think. Here's you chance Abu. Answer some questions and dispel some myths.
Back to top
 

Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 35539
At my desk.
Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #34 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 10:49pm
 
Quote:
I remember back when I was searching about different religions. I found Islam to be the most forthcoming. Try digging up detailed information, like you can find about Islam, on any other religions beliefs, you simply won't find it. It's difficult to come by.


It's the same with Islam. If I want to know what Christians believe, i will ask one. If I want to know what Muslims believe, I will ask one. That's why I'm asking you. That's why it's absurd for you to tell me to 'google it' because you don't want me to use your words against you.

Quote:
Islam is honest, you are not.


Islam is an ideology. Muslims are dishonest.

Quote:
Good for you. As I said, nothing in Islam that states "build an expansionist empire" sorry.


Yes it does. Why else would you be so afraid to answer the questions about Islamic concepts on spoils of war? Why do you go to so much effort to deflect, but never actually answer questions?

Quote:
Strawman, Islam doesn't command it's spread by the sword.


Yes it does Abu. It just words it slightly differently. The outcome is the same. It's like when you tried to tell me Islam supports freedom of religion. It is a lie. It supports it only technically. Then it gives detailed instructions on how to deny people freedom of religion.

Quote:
Sensationalist lines like this "you support stoning women to death" really do nothing more than take any impact, that might've been in your argument, out of it. Nowhere did I specifically state I support stoning women to death any more than I support stoning red haired people to death or people who own an odd pair of socks or people who live north of the tropic of capricorn and you well know it. So why do you insist with this nonsense?


Because you support stoning women to death. Men too. Happy now?

Quote:
Anyway, this was a comparative analogy


Yes, and Islam came out much worse. America defends freedom of religion. Islam opposes it.

Quote:
You claimed that it's "crap" that Islam spreads by people recognising the truth of it  and embracing it, BECAUSE of the fact the death penalty exists for apostates
.

Not just that. There is the treatment of non-Muslims as second class citizens, or worse. There are all the repulsive laws that the Caliphates imposed on non-Muslims. There is the union of church and state. There is the military-polygamy-concubine complex. Islam is designed to create a society that denies people freedom of religion on every level. It is a virulent ideology. It spread by denying people choice.

Quote:
I really shouldn't need to explain this kind of stuff for you. Stop *digging* for points... it does nothing but indicate desperation.


I am not diggiing for points. I am trying to get you to understand that freedom of religion means more than just saying freedom of religion. It must happen in practice. Islam denies people freedom of religion. No objective consideration of Islamic law could conclude anything else. Any claim that Islam allows freedom of religion is a bald faced lie.

Quote:
Even if we accept the loaded component of your question, that dhimmis are relegated to second class status (which they most certainly are not)


But they are Abu. We have an entire thread devoted to it.

Quote:
that wouldn't refute my claim that the Caliphate made the peoples of conquered lands full and equal citizens, because any Muslims in those lands would be full and equal citizens


It would refute your claim, because only the Muslims would be full and equal citizens. Unless you imagine that the people magically converted straight away before they were systematically subjected to all the ways in which Islam denies them freedom of religion.

Quote:
You responded to my assertion that military expansionism is not in the Islamic texts, by questioning if the 'liberation' of Spain was military expansionism. Whether it was or wasn't, doesn't tell us anything about what's in the Islamic texts, does it fd?


Well I've asked you that exact question before, and you refused to answer it, on the grounds that I might use you answer against you. In fact, you instroduced Spain repeatedly of how 'nicely' Islam expands.

Quote:
Spain is an example of how Islam spread at the request of the Christians themselves


No it is not Abu. This is another bald faced lie. Divide and conquer is not liberation, so quit pretending that it is. How can you complain when people say Muslims lie when you turn around and sprout crap like that?
Back to top
 

Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print