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Iran launches its first satellite (Read 7755 times)
abu_rashid
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Iran launches its first satellite
Feb 3rd, 2009 at 10:00pm
 
It seems Iran can't do anything right can they. Even if they make great achievements like launching their own satellites, it's automatically misconstrued as being a hostile act. Just another example of how clear it's becoming  who is behind the push for clash between Islam and the West.

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Iran has launched its first domestically made satellite into orbit, state media reports.

TV commentary said Monday's night-time launch from a Safir-2 rocket was "another achievement for Iranian scientists under sanctions".

The satellite was designed for research and telecommunications purposes, the television report said.

Iran is subject to UN sanctions as some Western powers think it is trying to build a nuclear bomb, which it denies.

Tehran says its nuclear ambitions are limited to the production of energy.

The launch of the Omid (Hope) satellite had been expected and was clearly timed to coincide with the 30th anniversary of the Iranian revolution, says the BBC's Jon Leyne in Tehran.

Space centre

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the satellite was launched to spread "monotheism, peace and justice" in the world.

But the launch could cause alarm in the West because of fears the technology could be used to make a long-range missile, possibly with a nuclear warhead, our correspondent says.
     
IRAN SPACE AMBITIONS
  • Aug 2008: Iran launches rocket 'capable of carrying satellite'
  • Feb 2008: Iran launches research rocket as part of satellite launch preparations, Tehran says
  • Feb 2007: Iran says it launches rocket capable of reaching space, which makes parachute-assisted descent to Earth
  • Oct 2005: Russian rocket launches Iran's first satellite, Sina-1


Iran will no doubt reply that it is once again being judged by double standards for using a technology that is commonplace in many other parts of the world, he adds.

Last August, Iran said it had successfully launched a rocket capable of carrying its first domestically built satellite, having in February launched a low-orbit research rocket as part of preparations for the satellite launch.

That launch marked the inauguration of a new space centre, at an unidentified desert location, which included an underground control station and satellite launch pad.

The White House called the 2008 launch "unfortunate", warning it would further isolate Iran from the global community.

In February 2007, Iran said it had launched a rocket capable of reaching space - before it made a parachute-assisted descent to Earth.

In October 2005, a Russian rocket launched Iran's first satellite, the Sina-1, which carried photographic and telecommunications equipment.

Source: BBC
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Calanen
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 2:20pm
 
...

Good job there Photoshop man.

...
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 8:44pm
 
Why is it that you go to such great lengths to point out that the actions of middle eastern nations are not a reflection of Islam because they are not proper Islamic dictatorships, but when the west criticises these governments you claim it is an attack on Islam?

It seems that you pick and choose what is Islam and what isn't at your convenience, depending on whatever spin you wish to place on something. You place greater restrictions on what others may attribute to Islam than what you do.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 9:23pm
 
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but when the west criticises these governments you claim it is an attack on Islam?


Their citizens are Muslims. The attacks by the West on Muslim nations are an attack against Muslims. Likewise, since the West always paints it as a clash between Islam and the West, then it has taken on such a hue. That's irrelevant to whether those nations correctly implement Shari'ah or not.

When they wage their relentless wars on the Muslim lands, it's innocent Muslim civilians who die.
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 9:50pm
 
Quote:
Their citizens are Muslims. The attacks by the West on Muslim nations are an attack against Muslims.


So likewise we can blame the actions of these countries with Muslims citizens on Islam? It is a blatant double standard Abu. The country represents Islam when it suits you, but it represents the evil imperialist west interfering in the middle east whenever the situation is reversed.

Quote:
Likewise, since the West always paints it as a clash between Islam and the West


The west went to great lengths to paint it as a war on terrorism, not a war on Islam. Are you saying they the same thing? Every time you here 'war on terrorism' do you think 'oh no they are onto us again'?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 10:16pm
 
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So likewise we can blame the actions of these countries with Muslims citizens on Islam? It is a blatant double standard Abu.


If they were popularly elected governments, and their citizens had any input whatsoever into how they actually functioned, then I might be inclined to agree with you. But they are not, they are all dictatorships in which the citizens are just helpless bystanders.

Quote:
The country represents Islam when it suits you, but it represents the evil imperialist west interfering in the middle east whenever the situation is reversed.


The state does not represent Islam, the people however are Muslims. For instance, when the U.S toppled the Baathist state, I couldn't care less, and don't consider it an act against Muslims, if anything it's an act in favour of Muslims, removing a tyrant who'd oppressed and slaughtered them for so long (never mind that they put him there to begin with and supported him  the whole time and gave him very nasty weapons with which to do it all).

Quote:
The west went to great lengths to paint it as a war on terrorism, not a war on Islam.


That's the outward meaning we've been given. But we both know it's been painted constantly as a clash between Islam and the West, by the media and by the political analysts and in reality on the ground, it's been a battle between Muslims and non-Muslims. Bush actually slipped up and announced it as a crusade, and even you yourself have been arguing this as a clash between a civilised Western ideology, and a barbaric Islamic ideology.
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2009 at 10:33am
 
Quote:
The state does not represent Islam, the people however are Muslims. For instance, when the U.S toppled the Baathist state, I couldn't care less, and don't consider it an act against Muslims, if anything it's an act in favour of Muslims, removing a tyrant who'd oppressed and slaughtered them for so long


But didn't you say elsewhere that you would have rpeferred Saddam to stay in power and the west not to intervene, and that Muslims were doing the right thing by fighting against the change?

Quote:
That's the outward meaning we've been given. But we both know it's been painted constantly as a clash between Islam and the West


Is this paint on the inside?

Quote:
even you yourself have been arguing this as a clash between a civilised Western ideology, and a barbaric Islamic ideology


Where did I do that?
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2009 at 8:18pm
 
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But didn't you say elsewhere that you would have rpeferred Saddam to stay in power


No.

Quote:
and the west not to intervene


Yes.

Quote:
and that Muslims were doing the right thing by fighting against the change?


Very few Iraqi's were fighting against the removal of Saddam, they are fighting against the occupation by the U.S. You need to learn to distinguish between the two. I'm aware the propaganda in the Western media continiously claims them to be inseperable, but they are not the same thing.

And in fact, Saddam and the U.S are one in the same anyway, as he was their servant in Iraq, until they decided he had outlived his usefulness.

Quote:
Where did I do that?


You constantly claim that Islam is  a backwards barbaric ideology, and this claim has been put forward as part of the wider "war on terrorism". Remember Bush's speeches about this being a war between the civilised world and the uncivilised world. He doesn't mean the uncivilised dictators who rule Muslim countries (they're in fact the West's trusted friends), as many Westerners sheepishly thinks, he means Islam as an ideology, civilisational construct and belief system.
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #8 - Feb 5th, 2009 at 10:17pm
 
Quote:
Very few Iraqi's were fighting against the removal of Saddam, they are fighting against the occupation by the U.S. You need to learn to distinguish between the two. I'm aware the propaganda in the Western media continiously claims them to be inseperable, but they are not the same thing.


So your ideal scenario would be the US rolling in, toppling Saddam, then pulling out and leaving a power vaccuum, rather than a democracy? How do you think that would have worked out?

Quote:
You constantly claim that Islam is  a backwards barbaric ideology, and this claim has been put forward as part of the wider "war on terrorism".


I may claim that islam is backwards, but I have conceded that the terrorism we see today is not part of it. Or at least, not part of mainstream Islam. I don't think they are totally unrelated. I think Islam sets the ball rolling and expects it to stop when it says stop, but the ball keeps rolling. In that sense it is naive, but you'd expect that from a 1400 year old law. That is why I kept trying to get you to concede that Muslims should be doing more to actively fight Islamic terrorism. I don't want the west to have to deal with it any more than you do. Muslims could do it with a scalpel, the west has to use a bomb. I would prefer Muslims to deal with it. But they cannot expect to place conditions on their dealing with it. They cannot use terrorism as a negotiating tool to get what they want, no matter how aggrieved they feel. They cannot make fighting terrorism secondary to geopolitical goals.

Quote:
Remember Bush's speeches about this being a war between the civilised world and the uncivilised world. He doesn't mean the uncivilised dictators who rule Muslim countries (they're in fact the West's trusted friends), as many Westerners sheepishly thinks, he means Islam as an ideology, civilisational construct and belief system.


No, he means Islamic terrorism, that which you do not consider to be a real part of Islam either. He was extraordinarily careful, given his limited capacities, not to make this into a war between Islam and the west.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #9 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 1:49am
 
Quote:
So your ideal scenario would be the US rolling in, toppling Saddam, then pulling out and leaving a power vaccuum, rather than a democracy? How do you think that would have worked out?


I think the only thing Muslims have ever asked of the U.S is not to actually support the dictators, with money, weapons etc. After that, they could be removed much easier. It is mostly this support that keeps them in place. The U.S has long recognised that this is what causes a lot of hatred for the U.S in the Middle East.

Quote:
but I have conceded that the terrorism we see today is not part of it


Could've fooled me.

Quote:
That is why I kept trying to get you to concede that Muslims should be doing more to actively fight Islamic terrorism


Well, if you're referring to people like Bin Laden, or insurgents in Iraq, then as I've mentioned to you before, those people around them have usually been the victim of years of Western oppression and attacks, so it's very unlikely they'd turn against those who are merely defending them. I really can't understand why you find this so hard to fathom, other than the fact that you have this inability to look beyond them being "the most evil people on earth". The idea that they're just defending themselves is beyond your reach.

If you're referring to people amongst the Australian Muslim community, as I've pointed out enough times lately with the Ben Brika case, Abu Hamza was a prosecution witness, and also was instrumental in trying to prevent Ben Brika from doing anything. Other members of the Muslim community have been prosecution witnesses as well. As i've said though, people like this generally don't widely advertise their militant tendancies.

Quote:
No, he means Islamic terrorism, that which you do not consider to be a real part of Islam either


No, Rumsfeld has spoken at length about this referring to anyone who believes in the concept of A Caliphate. It's quite clear it refers to Islam as a civilisation.

Quote:
He was extraordinarily careful, given his limited capacities, not to make this into a war between Islam and the west.


Well he didn't do a very good job, he alienated pretty much the entire Islamic world. Even former allies of the U.S have turned more towards militant attitudes. If anything, he did more for the cause of the militants than he did against them.
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:37am
 
Quote:
I think the only thing Muslims have ever asked of the U.S is not to actually support the dictators, with money, weapons etc. After that, they could be removed much easier. It is mostly this support that keeps them in place.


You mean like the embargo on Iraq? Weren;t you complaining elsewhere that embargoes are acts of war?

Quote:
Well, if you're referring to people like Bin Laden, or insurgents in Iraq, then as I've mentioned to you before, those people around them have usually been the victim of years of Western oppression and attacks, so it's very unlikely they'd turn against those who are merely defending them.


So 9/11 was 'merely defending them'?

Quote:
The idea that they're just defending themselves is beyond your reach.


I don't think the terrorist attacks were 'just defending themselves'. The London bombers were locals and had never experienced the oppression you complain about. Same with Benbrika.

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No, Rumsfeld has spoken at length about this referring to anyone who believes in the concept of A Caliphate.


Would you mind quoting him?
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:34pm
 
Quote:
You mean like the embargo on Iraq? Weren;t you complaining elsewhere that embargoes are acts of war?


They supported him during his most brutal years. Just because they finally decided to dispose of him doesn't mean a thing.

Quote:
So 9/11 was 'merely defending them'?


As I've stated before, no evidence, no trial, no conviction...
We don't know who done it, how can we claim it was defence for anyone?

Quote:
Would you mind quoting him?


Sure..
Rumsfeld: Violent Extremists Aim to Establish a Caliphate
White House Letter: Watchword of the day - Beware the caliphate
Bush Administration Misuses the Word 'Caliphate'
Muslim Conspiracy to Rule World Just Nonsense
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #12 - Feb 11th, 2009 at 12:59am
 
Abu, when you say the understanding, that so many westerners have, of the Islamic ideal of uniting the world under a new caliphate is just nonsense, when it appears to be what is stated, pretty clearly in the Koran, leads us once more to the subject of Taqiyya.

If you wanted to take over the world, and convert all the infidels to Islam, and create a worldwide Islamic Caliphate, you would naturally wish to play down that fact, because of the natural resistance, to be expected, from those who have no wish to convert, or die for refusing to convert.

So when you say it is nonsense, can you explain how you interpret the bits of the Koran, that seem to instruct muslims to pursue that goal, and why actually pursuing it would be nonsense?

This is a very crucial question, as so many people, that you would describe as Islamophobic, believe that the whole 'New Caliphate" issue is a real, and irrevocable tenet of the Koran, and if you were able to honestly, and effectively, dispel that idea, then you could expect much less suspicion, and mistrust of Islam, to be displayed.

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« Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:05am by mozzaok »  

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #13 - Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:53am
 

A Caliphate is merely a state ruled by Islam, the fact Muslims desire to live under it says nothing about conspiracy theories that Muslims are trying to take over the world.
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Re: Iran launches its first satellite
Reply #14 - Feb 11th, 2009 at 1:58am
 
You know very well that is not the whole story Abu, and your reluctance to answer frankly, and fully, just deepens peoples' mistrust of Islam.

Would you care to try and answer more fully please?
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