Australian Politics Forum - muslim men allowed to rape wives

freediver

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #90 - Jan 27^th, 2009 at 6:08pm

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FD- you know what there is an entire thread on this where I have discussed why I don't feel it is an incorrect usage but rather one of the many wys in which language has evolved.

you're not willing to accept that and that is fine- but please don't sit there and reiterate the same crap over and over and over- it's just boring

But the language hasn't 'evolved' and people's tendency to correct your incorrect use is evidence of that. It would only be evidence of true evolution if no-one thought to correct your mistake.

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I could quote a million passages from shakespeare and give you examples of words and phrases that have changed since their original meaning as used by him

Again, you are confusing two issues. Yes language evolves, but that does not mean that all misuse of language is an example of evolution. Sometimes it is just a mistake. If the mistake sticks, then you might be justified in calling it evolution, but not otherwise. The reason that some mistakes stick while others remain as mere mistakes is that the mistakes make communication more difficult, whereas language evolves where it aids communication. Criticism of religion will never be correctly called racism because it would just screw with communication.

Or two put it more simply, the fact that apples are red does not mean all red things are apples.

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sure, words may be misapplied originally but this does not invalidate their usage in common society from then on.

Nor does it validate it. You are not arguing an absence of invalidation, you are claiming validation through error. You are claiming that it is an apple merely because it is red.

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you say it would defeat the purpose of language- but the very NATURE of language is that it is constantly evolving and constantly changing

.

Actually, for the most part it remains the same. The change is slow. The words I use have the same meaning today as they did yesterday. 99.99999999% of the errors people make remain errors. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of language.

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I know where you stand, you know where I stand. we don't agree. wonderful- let's leave it at that

I'd rather keep pointing out that you are wrong, so that people know what racism actually is. You show no signs of dropping the 'red things are apples' fallacy, so I can only assume you haven't grasped it.

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I see islamaphobia as almost a subcategory of racism

I hope you didn't put that in your thesis. Tongue

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Soren

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #91 - Jan 27^th, 2009 at 11:59pm

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 27^th, 2009 at 5:52pm:

I see islamaphobia as almost a subcategory of racism (as I have explained my definition of racism before)- hence my use of the descriptor is to communicate more effectively the specificity of my phd topic.

Do you see uncompromising hate of and contempt for communism as also a subcategory of racism? Unreserved hatee, fera, conteempt for fascism, capitalism, western liberal democracy?
All hate and fear and contempt are now thought crimes under the bizarre 'subcategory of racism'. And you are going to churn this and related absurdities for 120,000 words.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #92 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 11:17am good point soren. Is any comment against anyone at all going to be plastered with the logo "Wacist" wadda unileftardsocialist lack of reality
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Gaybriel

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #93 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 2:23pm

Soren wrote on Jan 27^th, 2009 at 11:59pm:

Gaybriel wrote on Jan 27^th, 2009 at 5:52pm:

I see islamaphobia as almost a subcategory of racism (as I have explained my definition of racism before)- hence my use of the descriptor is to communicate more effectively the specificity of my phd topic.

Do you see uncompromising hate of and contempt for communism as also a subcategory of racism? Unreserved hatee, fera, conteempt for fascism, capitalism, western liberal democracy?
All hate and fear and contempt are now thought crimes under the bizarre 'subcategory of racism'. And you are going to churn this and related absurdities for 120,000 words.

it's more about studying certain patterns of behaviour in society. australian society went through a big fear of communism whereby people would accuse others of being communist, behaviour that would otherwise be seen as unacceptable was excused under the guise of protecting the country from communism etc etc- the 'reds under the bed' period of time., and hate was excused as acceptable because of the 'threat of communism'.

and yes I also think that this is worthy of study, and people have studied it as well.

whether you label it as a subcategory of racism or not, it certainly fits within the definition of a moral panic.

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Calanen

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #94 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 2:41pm

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The Wife's Marital Obligations:

It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when:

(a) he asks her;

(b) at home;

(c) and she can physically endure it;

(d) another condition that should be added is that her marriage payment (mahr) has been received or deferred to a term not yet expired.

As for when sex with her is not possible, such that having it would entail manifest harm to her, then she is not obliged to comply.

If she asks him to wait, she is awaited to a maximum of three days.

[m 5.0 Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller, A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law.]

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #95 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 4:14pm calanen - thanks for clarifying that. She has 3 days mod: inappropriate
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freediver

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #96 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 4:35pm

Calanen wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 2:41pm:

Quote:

The Wife's Marital Obligations:

It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when:

(a) he asks her;

(b) at home;

(c) and she can physically endure it;

(d) another condition that should be added is that her marriage payment (mahr) has been received or deferred to a term not yet expired.

As for when sex with her is not possible, such that having it would entail manifest harm to her, then she is not obliged to comply.

If she asks him to wait, she is awaited to a maximum of three days.

[m 5.0 Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller, A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law.]

What if she is on her period?

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #97 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 5:07pm I believe it's haram to have sex when you have your period
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #98 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 6:03pm What idiotic pointless modding. classic muslim attitude So no matter how much she hates him, she has 3 days till he can take what he wants. ie in a western world, rape her
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #99 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 6:05pm It sounds like she is required to give ip up on demand. Not sure what the 3 days thing is about.
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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #100 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 8:26pm Quote: What if she is on her period? I'll look that up tomorrow for you, however, there was a helpful section that said you could still have sex during post-natal bleeding.
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Calanen

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #101 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 8:28pm

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 6:05pm:

It sounds like she is required to give ip up on demand. Not sure what the 3 days thing is about.

Seems there is Islamic jurisprudence which suggests she can get the guy to wait for up to 3 days. There is a lot of other stuff which says no way right now. The Reliance of the Traveller has lots of footnotes from different sources, which I obviously cant show u on line because its a book in my office. But if you can beat your wife, couldnt you beat her for making you wait 3 days?

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives Reply #102 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 8:40pm calanen -oh, it all sounds a bit complex to me. Society has no crime against it, I am henned in by religion in its worst form, why not ?
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Gaybriel

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #103 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 9:12pm

Calanen wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 8:28pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 6:05pm:

It sounds like she is required to give ip up on demand. Not sure what the 3 days thing is about.

Seems there is Islamic jurisprudence which suggests she can get the guy to wait for up to 3 days. There is a lot of other stuff which says no way right now. The Reliance of the Traveller has lots of footnotes from different sources, which I obviously cant show u on line because its a book in my office. But if you can beat your wife, couldnt you beat her for making you wait 3 days?

not if it's her islamic right- and again the 'beating' you refer to is only supposed to occur if there is an unresolvable issue and you have tried all other avenues to solve it. so that would hardly fit into the 3 day period anyway

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Gaybriel

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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #104 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 9:14pm

Calanen wrote on Jan 28^th, 2009 at 8:26pm:

Quote:

What if she is on her period?

I'll look that up tomorrow for you, however, there was a helpful section that said you could still have sex during post-natal bleeding.

really? I find that hard to believe considering 1) islam's view on hygeine and 2) the stipulation that you cannot have sex if it will cause the female physical damage

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