Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 9
Send Topic Print
muslim men allowed to rape wives (Read 34895 times)
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #60 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 8:26pm
 
Calanen,

A strike on the chest could mean many things. It could mean pointing with your finger (most likely if it's on the chest).
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #61 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 8:37pm
 
Grendel,

Quote:
The list is endless...


Yes it is endless, and would also include sex. Most likely, during that time period, it would've referred to sex rather than breast enlargements, whatever helps you avoid the inevitable though...

Quote:
However in Western society women are not chattels.
Marriage today is seen as a partnership, not ownership.


That's nice, but still doesn't change what's clearly written in the NT.

Quote:
When will the Muslims enter the 20th century.


Are you still stuck in the 20th? We're in the 21st now..

Quote:
Took a bit of goading to finally get it out of you..


I've stated this before, didn't take any goading at all.

Quote:
So you were never really a Christian and you had if anything just a rudimentary understanding of it.


Prior to Islam I had little knowledge about Christianity. However, when embracing Islam, I was encouraged to look at Christianity... I'd say I have a much deeper grasp of what Christianity is about now than you do, and you're a Christian.

Quote:
made up lies (How NOT unusual) and converted to Islam...  why?


Because it is pure monotheistic belief in the one true all powerful Creator of all existence. Anyone denying Islam would be denying their own existence.

Quote:
So you refute official statistics...  because it doesn't suit your belief.  that's called living in denial.


I refute them because I know most Christians are just Christian by name, on paper, in the statistics. In reality most don't goto Church, don't even know the basic fundamental beliefs of Christianity, nor do they care about them.

Quote:
We don't care if Moslems go to mosques.  The thought never crosses my mind.


Obviously some Australians do, as they constantly try to block building of mosques, especially when it involves converting a former Church. This has happened in so many cases recently.

Quote:
you are deluding yourselves.  Even athiests would rather live in a Christian society than an islamic one.


You are the one deluding yourself. You live in an atheist society, not they live in a Christian one. Australia is completely secular, the laws are not based on Christianity whatsoever.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #62 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 9:21pm
 
Sooo  when are you going to face reality and stop telling lies Abu?

I have better things to do than continually point them out and correct you.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #63 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 9:23pm
 
ROTFLMAO.

Secularism and athieism are not the same thing.  You need a non-Muslim dictionary to check that?

Also our laws are based in christian morality.  History a little dodgey Abu?  Of course it is...  it's the Muslim version.

I just love how you twist quotes around and run off on tangents.  Grin Grin Grin

Oh and Abu...  your posts keep pointing out just how deluded you are.  That translates to me that the rest of so called moderate Muslims are equally deluded.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #64 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 10:21am
 
Quote:
Also our laws are based in christian morality...


This is an oft-quoted phrase, yet if it were true, then you'd have to concede:

Homosexuality
Prostitution
Adultery
Fornication
Gambling

Are all considered ok by Christian morality... is that so?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #65 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 11:01am
 
Thou shalt not steal...  oh dear theft is against the law.

Thou shalt not kill...  oh dear murder is against the law.

Here's one you need to personally address...  thou shalt not bear false witness...  slander, libel, fraud, etc, etc...  are covered by laws. 

Just from these 3 Christian tenets many other laws have been formed.

Jesus said...  turn the other cheek... so revenge and retribution  are other things frowned upon and against the laws and rules in many things. 

He also said... Render unto Caesar...  which speaks to secularism.  Which is another tenet of our society.

The list goes on and on and on...  much like your ignorance.  Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jim Profit
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 439
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #66 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 11:04am
 
...
Man, who cares?

Try to be reasonable here. You get married, you never have sex, wth?! What's the point of getting married without sex?! That's like ordering a value meal at Burger King and it's missing a key component like the onion rings. I don't care what your excuse, I want my onion rings damnit!

And if your husband hits you, hit him back. You're a grown woman, defend yourself. You'd be surprised how many physical fights end up turning into passionate sex. Relationships are funny that way..

And no, I don't hit my girlfriend. So before anyone whines about it, I'm actually really good at centering my anger. (Mainly on the thing that's troubling me. Which is never Julz)

That's why we have such a succesful relationship. So we know what the bugger we're talking about.. We have both been in abusive relationships, and we know that the problem was mostly us for not asserting ourselves.

And if I don't feel up to having sex, Julz is in the right to play with my genitals and force herself on me as she sees fit. When I agreed to this relationship we share everything. My body is her body. Her body is my mind. Our minds, souls, and everything else work as one. We don't think of ourselves, we think of eachother's needs and wants.

Yeah, she got kind of screwed there lol! She's gorgeous and I'm...I'm not lol! XP

But all this neo-femmenist bullcrap isn't helping anybody. If you want to empower women, stop treating them like glass. Tell them to either getup and defend themself or shut the hell up. If it's good enough for my friends and my pets, it's good enough for some stranger with a vagina.

Quote:
Australia is completely secular, the laws are not based on Christianity whatsoever.

...
Maybe that's why you can't do anything!

When there is no God, government takes on the role of morality. And that always endsup ten times worse...

I mean take for example your strict firearm laws. You live in a country with all these creepy animals straight out of HP Lovecraft.

Why in the hell would your government take away the guns when you could get attacked by some five foot scorpion?!

And you can't even look at porn on the internet. You're going to talk to me about Christianity being backward when your government doesn't even let you spank your whank to lolicon?!

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your country sucks. It might not be the worst, but it's not nearly the best. I'd say you rank somewhere above England, but below America.

And that's pretty low.. France is doing better then us for crying outloud!

And the best western countries are probably The Vatican City and Ireland.

But even better then them are countires like El Salvador and The Dominiquin Republic.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009 at 11:10am by Jim Profit »  

But I still believe there's something left for you and me.
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #67 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 9:06pm
 
Quote:
Thou shalt not steal...  oh dear theft is against the law.

Thou shalt not kill...  oh dear murder is against the law.

Here's one you need to personally address...  thou shalt not bear false witness...


Aren't they all from the OT? So you accept the OT when it suits you?

Either way, those laws predate the Bible (the first detailed mention of them is to be found in the code of Hammurabi), and EVERY single society on earth has pretty much those same laws. Even godless Soviet Russia had them, as do Muslim countries, Hindu countries, Buddhist countries etc.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #68 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 9:38pm
 
ROTFLMAO....

I knew you were gonna be dumb enough to try that crap.

Jesus actually taught these things ABU...  oh dear...  therefore they are Christian moral tenets...  just like the others I quoted..  get an adult to explain it to you.

Your Koran is confused and contradictory in its messages about killing, lying etc...  Jesus isn't.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 35310
At my desk.
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #69 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 11:12pm
 
Quote:
There is no doubt that in Islam the husband has control over the family, and therefore he is able to disclipine the wife. I've never come across a Muslim women who's ever  spoken against that idea.


Of course not. If they did, they wouldn;t be Muslim, right?

Quote:
However they do oppose domestic violence


Yeah, keep redefining domestic violence as violence that exceeds what Islam allows.

Quote:
Domestic violence is a disease which must be stamped out of all societies. But it has nothing to do with giving your wife a 'smack' when she's gotten out of control


  Shocked Grin Shocked

Quote:
Likewise, I think most people would make a distinction between smacking children with a disclipinary smack, and abusing them... No?


Plenty of people oppose smacking children. Plenty don't. It's a grey area. Smacking your wife on the other hand is a different matter. Only Muslims and scum seem to support that.

Quote:
So what you'd probably be referring to is domestic violence, which is nothing to do  with the disclipine Islam permits. They are two completely seperate phenomena.


Only because you insist on defining it that way to make Islam seem more PC. It's just an attempt to mislead people. Once youj redefine it you can say Islam opposes domestic violence and only those who push the issue impolitely find out you support smakcing your wife to keep her in line.

Quote:
It states a man has authority over his wife's body, this means he could have sex with her whenever he pleased, does it not? It means that no consent would be required in order to have sex, as he has authority, not her.


Shocked

Quote:
Let's just say it's the same as the NT.


Maybe you could stop assuming that everyone here knows about, or even cares what the NT says or what your interpretation of it is. Whatever vile tripe you can dig up from that book or your interpretation of it is not any kind of justification for your ideology. You'd be the last person I'd ask for advice about other religions.
Quote:
Nope just telling you how it is, something you seem to dislike, especially when it doesn't conform to your preconceived notions.


But that's not how it is Abu. Slapping your wife to keep her in line is domestic violence. The fact that your religion premits it is irrelevant. It just means that islam permits domestic violence, just like it permits spousal rape. The fact that Islam says men don't need their wive's consent for sex does not mean it isn't rape. The fact that it permits a bit of a slap does not mean it isn't domestic violence. These words have actual meanings and it is a lie to change their meaning merely to make it more convenient for you.

Quote:
Just put it down to Taqiyyah if you like... that's what you'd most like do anyway.


You don't really leave me much choice if you claim that smacking isn't domestic violence and non-consensual sex isn't rape.

Quote:
As I said, I liken it to the smack of disclipine a child receives when they need to be brought into line. Do you also consider that abuse?


If you treat your wife as a child in that manner then yes it is an abusive relationship.
Back to top
 

Ayers rock - the first casualty of climb-it change.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #70 - Jan 25th, 2009 at 11:40pm
 
Quote:
You don't really leave me much choice if you claim that smacking isn't domestic violence


So you think a light smack, the same as what a child would receive is domestic violence? You're off your rocker. You might be able to push the point that it's humiliating to the lady to be treated like a child, and I agree, that's the intended purpose of it, to make her feel like a naughty child, who should grow up and stop acting immaturely. But to try and claim it is domestic violence is just ridiculous. Domestic violence actually needs to be violent, a disclipinary smack ISN'T violent, not in my definition of violence anyway.

You really devalue the legitimate complaints of women in domestic violence situations, by associating a disclipinary smack with their plight.

Quote:
and non-consensual sex isn't rape.


Can you quote me on that Mr. Ventriloquist? Or just content throwing your voice my way, as you seem to be doing with ever increasing frequency?

This time I'm not going to let it slide, provide a quote, or apologise, you've done this one time too many times now freediver, without owning up like a man and admitting your error.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10748
Gender: female
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #71 - Jan 26th, 2009 at 12:18am
 
Quote:
So you think a light smack, the same as what a child would receive is domestic violence? You're off your rocker. You might be able to push the point that it's humiliating to the lady to be treated like a child, and I agree, that's the intended purpose of it, to make her feel like a naughty child, who should grow up and stop acting immaturely. But to try and claim it is domestic violence is just ridiculous. Domestic violence actually needs to be violent, a disclipinary smack ISN'T violent, not in my definition of violence anyway.


Abu I don't often disagree with your political posts, but in regard to Islam's subjugation of women I disagree.  You have to understand a light smack is considered domestic violence here, not just physically but emotionally.  It's a form of control and abuse and a disciplinary smack is violence.  A wife is a partner - not a child to be disciplined.

But does it stop even at a light smack?  There would be many who take advantage of this law and would push it even further.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #72 - Jan 26th, 2009 at 3:07am
 
Mantra,

Quote:
Abu I don't often disagree with your political posts, but in regard to Islam's subjugation of women I disagree.


Well it wouldn't be much fun if we all always agreed now would it?

Yes Islam does place the husband in the position of authority in the family, and some women do have a problem with that, but there's actually a lot, surprisingly, who don't. Islam holds the position that no social grouping can exist (or actually, function harmoniously) without the establishment of leadership. The Prophet (pbuh) even said "Three people should not go out, without appointing one of them as leader". And some people, not just Muslims, attribute a lot of the family problems in most Western societies to this lack of clear leadership, and the failed attempts to establish some kind of false equality and 'sameness' between men and women, especially in family roles.

Just out of curiousity Mantra, do you consider an employee and an employer to be in an unfair relationship? Do you consider a student (an adult one, let's say) and his teacher to be in an unfair relationship? Do you consider a soldier and his commanding officer to be in an unfair relationship?

Although it's often painted as an abusive and oppressive arrangement, it does not have to be and in fact shouldn't be.

Quote:
You have to understand a light smack is considered domestic violence here, not just physically but emotionally


I doubt we're talking about the same thing here. Domestic violence implies a continual release of anger by one spouse against another (as far as I see it), Islam does not permit that at all. Also, in the Australian context anyway, Islam requires Muslims to follow the 'law of the land' in which they live, except when it forces them to break the rules of Islam. Since Islam does not require disclipining of the wife, then it's actually irrelevant anyway.

Quote:
A wife is a partner - not a child to be disciplined.


She  is not a child, and she is a partner, but that doesn't mean the family should be deprived of leadership.

Quote:
But does it stop even at a light smack?


If it doesn't stop at a light smack, then it's nothing to do with Islam, it's to do with a person having anger management problems, which he must comes to terms with.

Quote:
There would be many who take advantage of this law and would push it even further.


That's not really an argument. Exact same can be said for giving children a disclipinary smack also. Just out of interest what is your view on smacking children Mantra?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #73 - Jan 26th, 2009 at 6:26am
 
LoL  light smacks...  this from the man who says pots and pans are part of the womans arsenal.

Quote:
This time I'm not going to let it slide, provide a quote, or apologise, you've done this one time too many times now freediver, without owning up like a man and admitting your error.


Well then ABU lets not be a total hypocrite eh...  have you restored my post and did you apologise for lying about me and what I said yet?  Feel like owning up like a man yet?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10748
Gender: female
Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #74 - Jan 26th, 2009 at 8:03am
 
Quote:
Just out of curiousity Mantra, do you consider an employee and an employer to be in an unfair relationship? Do you consider a student (an adult one, let's say) and his teacher to be in an unfair relationship? Do you consider a soldier and his commanding officer to be in an unfair relationship?

Although it's often painted as an abusive and oppressive arrangement, it does not have to be and in fact shouldn't be.


Some of these relationships could be considered unfair if the person in authority is verbally abusive, but the relationship still doesn't permit smacking.  It would be violating their work charter of behaviour and ethics.

Quote:
She  is not a child, and she is a partner, but that doesn't mean the family should be deprived of leadership.


In many relationships of course, one person does become the leader - through dominance or necessity - one being weaker than the other, but this is "usually" by mutual acceptance, although not in all cases.  When a person is dominated against their will it is abuse.  

Islam automatically gives the role of leader to the man, regardless of whether he is weak, strong, brutal or sadistic.  It is not given through natural selection as is the case in many relationships.  Although in an ideal relationship there is no leader, but a team.

Quote:
Exact same can be said for giving children a disclipinary smack also. Just out of interest what is your view on smacking children Mantra?


I have never believed in smacking children.  There are other ways of disciplining them, although a couple of times under extreme pressure, I resorted to hitting them on the legs with a rolled up newspaper, which fortunately they took in good humour.  It put a stop to their bad behaviour, simply because it was an aberration.  If it had been a regular occurrence, no doubt it would have been ineffective and they would have become resentful.

If my partner or husband had done similar when I "misbehaved", no doubt I would have been enraged at not only the humiliation but because he used his physical strength to exert dominance and control over me.

Violence begets violence, no matter how reasonably it's portrayed or justified.  i
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 9
Send Topic Print