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muslim men allowed to rape wives (Read 33809 times)
Sprintcyclist
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muslim men allowed to rape wives
Jan 22nd, 2009 at 8:03am
 

ho hum, another week, another muslim regression to 1400 years ago, another denial by "moderates"



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A SELF-STYLED Islamic cleric has told his male followers they can force their wives to have sex and also hit them if they are disobedient.

Samir Abu Hamza said despite Australian rape laws it was impossible for a man to rape his wife even if she refused to have sex with him.

In a recorded lecture entitled "The Keys to a Successful Marriage", delivered to his male worshippers but now broadcast on the internet and viewed by several thousand people, Mr Hamza from Melbourne said Islamic law allowed men to hit their wives as a last resort but they were not to make them bleed or become bruised.

He said under Islamic law, as described in a Koranic verse, it was a man's right to demand sex from his wife whenever he felt like it.

He then mocked Australia's criminal laws which required consent for sex to be lawful.

"In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to and she hasn't got a sickness or whatever, there is nothing wrong with her she just does not feel like it, and he ends up sleeping with her by force ... it is known to be as rape. Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?" Mr Hamza asked.

In the contradictory sermon, delivered in Melbourne or Sydney about 2003 but posted late last year, Mr Hamza initially instructs his listeners "don't hit your wife".

But he goes on to say exactly how men should hit their wives, according to his interpretation of Islamic teachings.

"After you have advised them (not to be disobedient) for a long, long time then you smack them, you beat them and please brothers, calm down, the beating the Mohammed showed is like the tooth brush that you use to brush your teeth," he said.

"You are not allowed to bruise them, you are not allowed to make them bleed."

Mr Hamza runs the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australasia which offers spiritual advice, prayer facilities and boxing, karate and gym classes for Muslims.

He yesterday stood by his comments and blamed controversy caused by them on a hidden zionist agenda run by the media.

Islamic Women's Welfare Council of Victoria executive director Joumanah El Matrah said Mr Hamza's interpretation was bigoted. "Abu Hamza's interpretation of this Koranic verse (on beatings) is no longer an accepted interpretation of the verse," she said.

Islamic Council of Victoria vice-president Sherene Hassan said Islam did not condone domestic violence.

"The Prophet Mohammed stated 'The best of you is he who is kindest to his wife'," Ms Hassan said. "The ICV is deeply concerned that there are individuals who may interpret this lecture as condoning violence against women."  



http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24945456-952,00.html
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Calanen
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #1 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 8:15am
 
This is nothing new. What is NEW is that it has hit the mainstream media. Normally such things are hushed up.

Kayser Trad will be on the news to say something like this:

'Everyone knows that the learned Sheikh was in fact talking about Rap, not rape. He was saying, that you can rap with your wife homeboy, play that funky beat and jive to the music. Only racist bigots would have said that he was saying 'rape', but that shows their ignorance and hatred. We all know that if he was talking about rape, he would have mentioned cats and uncovered meat. Where is the discussion of meat, or cats? There is none, so clearly we are talking about funky disco rap beats and not rape. And the beating he is speaking of is musical beats, not actual violence..LOL! The racists and Islamaphobes never give up trying to defame Islam.'
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Gaybriel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #2 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:21am
 
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #3 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:23am
 
A Muslim man shouldn't have to rape his wife. She is supposed to 'look after him'....
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Gaybriel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #4 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:26am
 
he should get together with that female judge who said this a few years back

I can't find the judge (although I'm pretty sure there was one) but maybe I'm thinking of this woman

Phyllis Schlafly: "By getting married, the woman has consented to sex, and I don't think you can call it rape," she has said

"Could you clarify some of the statements that you made in Maine last year about martial rape?
I think that when you get married you have consented to sex. That's what marriage is all about, I don't know if maybe these girls missed sex ed. That doesn't mean the husband can beat you up, we have plenty of laws against assault and battery. If there is any violence or mistreatment that can be dealt with by criminal prosecution, by divorce or in various ways. When it gets down to calling it rape though, it isn't rape, it's a he said-she said where it's just too easy to lie about it.

Was the way in which your statement was portrayed correct?

Yes. Feminists, if they get tired of a husband or if they want to fight over child custody, they can make an accusation of marital rape and they want that to be there, available to them.

So you see this as more of a tool used by people to get out of marriages than as legitimate-

Yes, I certainly do."


argh
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« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:34am by Gaybriel »  
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #5 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:15pm
 
gaybriel lastworder - do you have a point there ??

f/d - maybe a muslim man should nto have to rape his wife, but he is allowed to. Smiley
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #6 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:28pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:15pm:
gaybriel lastworder - do you have a point there ??

f/d - maybe a muslim man should nto have to rape his wife, but he is allowed to. Smiley


sprint- stop changing my username

secondly- yes, my point is that anyone saying a man can't rape his wife (as in if he forces her to have sex it's not rape) is an idiot

as to your last point- no that's incorrect
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Calanen
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #7 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:21pm
 
I almost predicted it....


Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Islamic leaders have condemned a Melbourne Muslim cleric who told followers it was permissible to hit their wives and force them to have sex.

But Coburg mosque cleric Samir Abu Hamza has told a confidant his message has been taken out of context and that he was referring to hitting wives in a metaphorical sense.

Mr Rudd told reporters Mr Hamza's comments had no place in modern Australia.

During a 2003 lecture also posted on the internet late last year, Mr Hamza told followers that under Islamic law, men could demand sex from their wives.

Despite Australian law requiring consent, it was impossible for a man to rape his wife even if she refused to have sex, he said.

"Under no circumstances is sexual violence permissible or acceptable in Australia - under no circumstances," Mr Rudd said.

"Under no circumstances are other forms of violence, physical violence, acceptable towards women in Australia nor are they acceptable in my view to mainstream Muslim teachings.

"Australia will not tolerate these sort of remarks. They don't belong in modern Australia, and he should stand up, repudiate them and apologise."

The President of the Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) Ramzi Elsayed said he had spoken with Mr Hamza about the lecture, titled The Keys to a Successful Marriage.

"He told me he was speaking in a metaphorical sense," Mr Elsayed said.


"In regards to hitting your wife, his position is that it has always been metaphorical - it's not a whack, it's not a slap, it's a wake-up call."


He said Islam did not condone violence against women or making a wife have sex with her husband against her will.

"He believes he was taken out of context insofar as he was talking about people who censure their spouses - it was not so much a physical hit as a metaphorical one to say wake up, we're heading for a divorce kind-of-thing," Mr Elsayed said.

But the senior honorary legal adviser to the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Haset Seli, hit out at Mr Hamza, calling him a lunatic.

"His lecture was absolutely ludicrous, unIslamic and highlighted the ignorance of the man," Mr Seli said.

He said anyone who thinks he can force his wife to have sex with him is a lunatic and certainly not a Muslim.

Mr Seli said he went through a similar episode with the former Mufti, Sheik Taj Aldin Alhilali, who caused a national uproar in a 2006 Ramadan speech when he likened scantily clad women to uncovered meat, suggesting they were to blame for sexual attacks on them.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/wife-beating-metaphor/2009/01/22/12324714810...
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #8 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:28pm
 
I'd be interested to read a transcript of the two lectures.
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Gaybriel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #9 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:29pm
 
sorry but I've watched the whole video and it actually is not only taken out of context but also inflated

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=M2z_2dMecFM

you can watch the whole thing here- this one doesnt have to footage of him talking about rape though. yet to find it

some interesting points in the video to those who don't want to watch the whole thing

8-13
17:50- 20
21- 25
24:30 – where he talks about hitting
26:30
28-32
32-37
40:30 – says same for men as women before

you can see he says the hitting is to the extent of hitting with a toothbrush - it cannot leave a mark or make someone bleed. it is also a very last result after much much consultation.

when you think about it - at a time when violence against women would have been considered fairly commonplace- doesn't this highlight the extent to which you cannot beat your wives? instead of giving permission to beat, it actually says the exact opposite. that the most you could ever do was tap your wife on the arm or leg with the same force as hitting someone with a folded scarf (as pointed out by scholars)
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« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:39pm by Gaybriel »  
 
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #10 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:48pm
 
then you do have problems gaybriel as fo your article..  ROTFLMAO  remind me never to have you as a lawyer.
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Gaybriel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #11 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:52pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 22nd, 2009 at 5:48pm:
then you do have problems gaybriel as fo your article..  ROTFLMAO  remind me never to have you as a lawyer.


what article?
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Grendel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #12 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 6:54pm
 
Not an article?
paraphrase?
made up?
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Gaybriel
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #13 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 7:14pm
 
you've confused me-what are you referring to- quote it please
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Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #14 - Jan 22nd, 2009 at 7:26pm
 
  Re: muslim men allowed to rape wives
Reply #4 - Today at 11:26am
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