abu_rashid wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 6:23am:


So you think she wore it because she is a Muslim?

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Probably.

As has been pointed out numerous times before, and is something which many seem to be completely unable to fathom, Hijab is NOT a religious dress, it is merely a level of public decency. Just like bras are not Christian religious dress, although as far as I'm aware all Christian women are required to cover their breasts in public.

If a Christian woman committed a crime with a bra on, would she be an extra bad Christian? Because after all, she was modest enough to cover her breasts, yet here she was committing a crime.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 8:55pm:



Hijab wearing muslims in this society are as ridiculous and anachronistic as goths, clowns and other kooks . They are harmless but ridiculous because they parade and protestt their identity. That is, they are, paradoxically, immodest.. They are shouting, 'look at me, I am different!.
Niqab and face veil wearers are offensive and outrageous in this society. Except during carnivale, there is no place for masks in public places in this society. I would refuse to talk to anyone who is face is covered. I would treated it as a personal affront.
There is no excuse for it.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 9:28pm:


abu, that is what you implied by comparing a head dress to an underwear. I just could not believe that you would make a mockery out of islamic dress code 

Abu, would you mind running through with me what the required clothing is for Christians?

Why is it that you keep referring to Christianity for a comparison, even though there is nothing comparable in Christianity?

Also, you haven't yet explained how America is responsible for this Muslim woman doing the wrong thing.

tallow,

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I did not compare it to underwear, I compared it to covering a piece of the human anatomy, as covering the hair is. But as bras are giggle-worthy items of clothing for you, you couldn't resist. Let us just  say a t-shirt if that helps you to undertsand the comparison a little better, without distracting you into thinking about women's under garments.

soren,

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So you'd have no problem with your wife/sister/daughter etc. walking around topless? If your work for example happened to take you to such a location?

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For the same reason Western governments require New Guinean women cover their breasts when they come to Western societies. Because it's considered to be indecent exposure of one's nakedness.

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That just highlights my point that the Hijab is no special religious cloth, it's just a part of covering one's nakedness. Otherwise, they'd make sure they covered other parts before worrying about their hair.

This example is about as relevant as me stating some Christian women cover their breasts but expose their thighs.

freediver,

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I'll refer you to the "horse's mouth".

Christian clothing
The Christian's appearance
From the pastor's wife
Dress standards for the teenage girl

There's plenty more out there, try looking for once. It's also a known fact that for most of Christianity's history, women dressed much more modestly, and in fact in earlier times, most covered their hair. Some Christian women till thiss day still cover their hair, some any time they leave the same (same as Muslims) and some on in holy places, like Chuches. Ever seen a picture of the Virgin Mary without hijab? Why not?

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America?

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It is a requirement of Islamic dress code, according to all 4 schools of mainstream Islamic thought. And according to the Shi'a sect as well. There  is no difference of opinion about it being compulsory, there are however different levels of practise amongst individuals, and this is more rightly what you seem to be referring to.

I think you mentioned Albanians? Since they lived under Communism for quite a long time, during which it was forbidden to practise any outward aspect  of Islam, many Albanians do not. However, the Albanians I've met in Melbourne do cover their hair, so if I were to just judge Albanians by my experience I'd say the complete opposite to you about them.. That just shows that personal exposure to a few members of a community is not a good indicator of the majority.

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I have no obsesssion with nakedness, nowhere have I ever opened a thread or topic of conservation on such issues. If anything, the non-Muslim members here are obsessed with Muslim women not wanting to expose what they consider to be their nakedness, and I merely respond to them.

Likewise, as I've pointed out, the nakedness of a man according to Islam is different to Australian law also. Any man wearing speedos to the beach for instance would be considered naked by Islamic standards, as would any AFL player, because Islam requires men to cover right down to the knee.

My comments have nothing to do with nakedness of women, they are to do with the Islamic concept of nakedness, for both men and women, and the Islamic requirements of covering that nakedness. It is no more misogynistic than you stating under Australian law a woman must cover her breasts and genitals.

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Actually i've had that discussion, since you mention it, at the initiation of a female member of my family, not at my initiation, and it didn't result in any crack of the ears.

If you have a friend who's a nudist, and you consider them to be indecentally exposing themselves, is there anything wrong with your view? You just have a different understanding of what's right and wrong than them... is there anyhting wrong with that? Must we all conform to the exact same standards of what's right and wrong?

In Australia, nobody enforces hijab, Muslim women choose to wear it themselves. It's only some Australians who'd like to deny them that right, which causes problems.

Besides, asking someone to cover more than their own perceived level of nakedness is no threat to their own personal concept of nakedness anyway. If someone demanded I cover more of my legs than just to my knees (what I believe to be nakedness) I'd have no problem with it. If they asked me to expose some of what  I consider nakedness, then I'd certainly have a problem.