Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Racism (Read 5148 times)
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Racism
Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:45pm
 
"Racial discrimination is treating people differently through a process of social division into categories not necessarily related to race."

It was already noted by DuBois that in making the difference between races, it is not race that we think about, but culture: “…a common history, common laws and religion, similar habits of thought and a conscious striving together for certain ideals of life”[11] Late nineteenth century nationalists were the first to embrace contemporary discourses on "race", ethnicity and "survival of the fittest" to shape new nationalist doctrines. Ultimately, race came to represent not only the most important traits of the human body, but was also regarded as decisively shaping the character and personality of the nation.[12] According to this view, culture is the physical manifestation created by ethnic groupings, as such fully determined by racial characteristics. Culture and race became considered intertwined and dependent upon each other, sometimes even to the extent of including nationality or language to the set of definition.

Pureness of race tended to be related to rather superficial characteristics that were easily addressed and advertised, such as blondness. Racial qualities tended to be related to nationality and language rather than the actual geographic distribution of racial characteristics. In the case of Nordicism, the denomination "Germanic" became virtually equivalent to superiority of race.

Bolstered by some nationalist and ethnocentric values and achievements of choice, this concept of racial superiority evolved to distinguish from other cultures, that were considered inferior or impure. This emphasis on culture corresponds to the modern mainstream definition of racism:
"
Racism does not originate from the existence of ‘races’. It creates them through a process of social division into categories: anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic, cultural, religious differences
.
"[
13] This definition explicitly ignores the fiery polemic on the biological concept of race, still subject to scientific debate. In the words of David C. Rowe "A racial concept, although sometimes in the guise of another name, will remain in use in biology and in other fields because scientists, as well as lay persons, are fascinated by human diversity, some of which is captured by race."[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:01pm
 
rac⋅ism
   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.      a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.      a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.      hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:02pm
 
rac·ism      (rā'sĭz'əm)  Pronunciation Key
n. 

   1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
   2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:02pm
 
racism

noun
1.      the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
2.      discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:03pm
 
racism

The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them. In the United States, racism, particularly by whites against blacks, has created profound racial tension and conflict in virtually all aspects of American society. Until the breakthroughs achieved by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, white domination over blacks was institutionalized and supported in all branches and levels of government, by denying blacks their civil rights and opportunities to participate in political, economic, and social communities.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #5 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:07pm
 
Racism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:08pm
 
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups. The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief. The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #7 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:09pm
 
want more?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Racism
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 11:49pm
 
sure- because none of it disproves what I'm saying. that is, that the term racism is used to refer to superiority/inferiority that is not merely based on race

certainly race ideology was initially based upon scientific beliefs of racial speriority/inferiority- I don't deny that at all. but since these scientific beliefs have been proven false, and yet racism itself continued on, the term has come to encapsulate more than its original meaning and usage. such is the evolution of language.

btw can you provide links for those definitions.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47067
At my desk.
Re: Racism
Reply #9 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 7:44am
 
You should have just split the discussion off the other thread.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #10 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 8:05am
 
Grendel and I have been through all this before, where I proposed the same things Gaybriel does, that while his dictionary term is still valid, the actual use, and understanding of the word racism, has evolved to encompass the broader meaning of bigotry, because of social, and cultural differences, and does not strictly contain itself to the more specific racial definitions of 100 years ago.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
locutius
Gold Member
*****
Offline


You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male
Re: Racism
Reply #11 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:05am
 
mozzaok wrote on Jan 9th, 2009 at 8:05am:
Grendel and I have been through all this before, where I proposed the same things Gaybriel does, that while his dictionary term is still valid, the actual use, and understanding of the word racism, has evolved to encompass the broader meaning of bigotry, because of social, and cultural differences, and does not strictly contain itself to the more specific racial definitions of 100 years ago.


I agree that I have seen "racism" being used in this broader sense but I think it is a mistake and dillutes the accuracy of what we are talking about. It makes it difficult because I personally am not racist, I do not believe in racial superiority based on skin colour, nor do I believe in racial purity or preservation of purity. I do an will discriminate culturally in that I will disapprove of or attack belief systems that I do not agree with. I do not believe in cultural or behavioural immunity. Now to label that as "racism" is inaccurate in my opinion, and gets in the way of getting at deeper issues.

Maybe it is just laziness because other terms may be awkward or not hold an automatic negative connotation. Then again being racist is a positive for some people because they DO believe in the value of racial purity. I don't shy away from the word because it is a naughty word, nor am I afraid to be called one because the claimant could not back up the accusation.

For instance, cultural dances, festivals and celebrations add flavour to a diverse society. They hold no interest for me. I don't have the ear to appreciate much of the worlds musical styles, and dances and costumes also hold no interest to me. But I appreciate that other enjoy these harmless activities and should rightly have freedom to do so. But if you think cultural tolerance extends to practices such as female circumcision, than no. And I will attack this practice very agressively without apology. That attack according to those standards would be racist. I disagree.
Back to top
 

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.
 
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Racism
Reply #12 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 12:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2009 at 7:44am:
You should have just split the discussion off the other thread.


I couldn't remember the thread it was in and couldn't be bothered searching more than I did.

anyway- this serves just as well so I don't see the problem
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Racism
Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 12:37pm
 
locutius wrote on Jan 9th, 2009 at 10:05am:
mozzaok wrote on Jan 9th, 2009 at 8:05am:
Grendel and I have been through all this before, where I proposed the same things Gaybriel does, that while his dictionary term is still valid, the actual use, and understanding of the word racism, has evolved to encompass the broader meaning of bigotry, because of social, and cultural differences, and does not strictly contain itself to the more specific racial definitions of 100 years ago.


I agree that I have seen "racism" being used in this broader sense but I think it is a mistake and dillutes the accuracy of what we are talking about. It makes it difficult because I personally am not racist, I do not believe in racial superiority based on skin colour, nor do I believe in racial purity or preservation of purity. I do an will discriminate culturally in that I will disapprove of or attack belief systems that I do not agree with. I do not believe in cultural or behavioural immunity. Now to label that as "racism" is inaccurate in my opinion, and gets in the way of getting at deeper issues.

Maybe it is just laziness because other terms may be awkward or not hold an automatic negative connotation. Then again being racist is a positive for some people because they DO believe in the value of racial purity. I don't shy away from the word because it is a naughty word, nor am I afraid to be called one because the claimant could not back up the accusation.

For instance, cultural dances, festivals and celebrations add flavour to a diverse society. They hold no interest for me. I don't have the ear to appreciate much of the worlds musical styles, and dances and costumes also hold no interest to me. But I appreciate that other enjoy these harmless activities and should rightly have freedom to do so. But if you think cultural tolerance extends to practices such as female circumcision, than no. And I will attack this practice very agressively without apology. That attack according to those standards would be racist. I disagree.


but I think the problem here is that the term racism is just being applied willy nilly.

disliking the fact that women and girls have their basic human rights violated by being forced to undergo a violent, dangerous and violating procedure is not racist.

I also don't think everyone has to be interested in being some learned multi-cultural god- my problem is when people just automatically dismiss what is different, or patronise other people because of it.

like the kind of smug arrogance that people hold when they believe that their culture is the only valid culture around, that other cultures are of little to no, or certainly lesser value, and therefore treat the people belonging to that accordingly.

I find that most people who are like this tend to just mock other cultures and deride them, despite not knowing anything about them. I'm talking about non-controversial things- like native dances, languages, lifestyles etc

I went to africa a little while ago, and before I went I had so many people "Africa? why would you want to go there?" I even had one woman perform a mock masai dance, jumping up and down chanting. wonderous.

I do agree with you, that some people can have the knee-jerk reaction where they just assume somebody's dislike for something is motivated by racism. And it makes calling anything racist a joke. personally, I think that the world went through a period of consciousness about race and racism- realising past sins, realising the error of our ways etc- and naturally the pendulum swung to the other extreme, people became really sensitive to the issue etc. now i think it's calming down a bit (although there will always be people who play the racism card when it's not relevant- just like you still have feminists who put everything down to gender).

I think that some people can have a legitimate opinion that is motivated by the fact they are racist, I think that people can have the same opinion and not be racist at all, and then there are the straight out racists and everything they say is coloured by that

I think my frustration with people of the first category is that they are always very willing to vehemently criticise the faults of others, but they refuse to do so with themselves, or other races/cultures they deem to be on their same level of superiority
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47067
At my desk.
Re: Racism
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
All words get misused. The misuse of a word does not change it's definition. The fact that so many people here are correcting misuse of the word proves that the meaning hasn't changed. Furthermore most of the people who misuse the word change their mind once their error is pointed out. That is, they misuse the word out of ignorance, not because they actually want to add the extra meaning to it. Adding to the confusion is that racism is often an accusation of motive. Thus people are accused of racism even if they are criticising someone and couching it in terms of religion, ethnicity, nationality, culture, or specific actions. Again, that does not change the meaning of the word.

In the other thread Gaybriel used the word 'gay' as an example of a change in meaning. However, no-one corrects people who use the word gay to mean homosexual.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229371344/108#108

Gaybriel I can splice that other discussion onto this one if you want, or vice versa.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print