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Did this child deserve to die? (Read 25669 times)
Amadd
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Mo

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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #225 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:50pm
 
Quote:
Hmm... I thought you were the squeaky clean one...

I've seen corrupt cops in action in my time, but I know they're in the minority. You appear to have decided all cops are dirty because one cop bullshitted to uphold a pissant charge... You shouldda got a lawyer if you wanted to screw around with them in court.


That's just ridiculous Helian. I'm talking about a squeaky clean "criminal" record. I have no "criminal" record at all.
Check out the records of politicians some time.

Get a lawyer for a "day in court'?? WTF?

And I don't need to bring up every other instance throughout my life where I've found cops to be less than useless to me, but they are a plenty.

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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:58pm by Amadd »  
 
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #226 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 10:13pm
 
The following are all Mozzaok Quotes:


Quote:
As far as the issue of Tyler's death is concerned, their is no reason to believe the police had any racial motive for shooting Tyler, as opposed to Martin Luther King, a black, civil rights leader, assassinated while in the middle of the world's biggest ever civil rights campaign, I would think even somewhat as ill equipped to follow logical reasoning, as yourself, could spot the difference there.


Who says King's assasination was racially motivated, Mozzaok?  Roll Eyes Ooooo, because he was black and the assassin was white? My word, Mozzaok, did you figure that one out all by yourself?  Grin

The anti-racists used MLK's death to forward their agenda, Mozzaok. And this trend continues to this day. With so many *ahem* sheep eating it up and so many pieces of filth promoting it. There isn't much difference between the two, Mozzaok, aside from the grand scale of it, as the media is playing it down, unlike back in the 1960's, where the media was less centralized/monopolized and less agenda driven.


Quote:
So it is worth noting the incident, but until further information is available, it is hard to make a balanced judgement of where, and how much blame, gets attached to the incident.

I have always thought that serious questions needed to be asked about how they came to use such a high degree of force, but I also felt that to prejudge them, which is what you did, was grossly unfair.

If, after an enquiry, and all the facts come to light, any blame is apportioned the police, then would be the right time to make criticisms of them.


What a crock. Has that ever stopped the media before? They usually jump onto a story as soon as they can get the quotes. 'Fact-checking' my eye. They have the tendency to report whatever comes out of the families mouth. It's all over the internet in both anti-racist and racist circles that he was attacked by a Lebanese gang.

The media just reported that the Government reestablished Australia's multicultural policy and that it would get tougher on wacists in Melbourne. Targetting them with "ZERO TOLERANCE." Is it really that hard to believe that the media and Government are in it together on this one? They realise that this incident could undo two years worth of multiculturalism propaganda since the Cronulla protests.
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Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything
&&-- G.K. Chesterton
 
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Amadd
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #227 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 10:33pm
 
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Is it really that hard to believe that the media and Government are in it together on this one?


The media and the government have always worked hand in hand. That's why Labor always used to get the left hand side of the page until they succumbed to corporate pressure and we now pretty much have two major right wing parties.

And I might add Mozz's intial comments which went like this:
Quote:
On tonight's news, they reported that he subscribed to a white supremicist group, and that he had threatened others with the knifes before the police arrived, and also that he shouted that he wanted to die.

Now if I was faced with a crazy person with a knife, who says they want to die, then I would certainly be prepared to shoot them if I felt I was in imminent danger.

That is the call that the police made, and if the reports are correct, it does seem justified.


It doesn't really matter about further reports that the police knew about in the first place. This is the very same argument which he has stuck with.
The kid was psychotic, waving knives, threating to kill and wanting to die, he deserved to die.
That's all the public needs to know, now move on.....says Mozz.

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« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2008 at 10:48pm by Amadd »  
 
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mozzaok
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #228 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 11:50pm
 
I've stood in smelly stuff with more sense than you Donald, you are truly..(fill in your own description that will equate to ignorant, self absorbed, and not too bright), an oxygen thief.

And as Ammad says, I have remained consistent on this matter, as if that was the wrong thing to do.
Has new information come to light to warrant a change of view?

I still say, unless information comes to light that the police acted improperly, and so far absolutely none has, then no-one has the right to maliciously attack them, as some here did.

So it stands with an unfortunate and tragic death, of a very troubled, armed youth, being shot, when he violently resisted any attempt to subdue him.

That still sounds justifiable.

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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #229 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 3:13am
 
Mozzaok quotes:

Quote:
I've stood in smelly stuff with more sense than you Donald, you are truly..(fill in your own description that will equate to ignorant, self absorbed, and not too bright), an oxygen thief.


Oh... poor Mozzaok... what's the matter? Upset that your arguments are ineffective?  Roll Eyes (Note: I use the term 'arguments' very loosely, as most are just insults)   

Why'd you stop talking about MLK so suddenly, Mozzaok? Where was the 'racial motivation' you so desperately tried to link with the MLK shooting?  Grin (Note: I only brought up MLK to defend myself against your insults and all anti-wacists delusions that anti-wacists 'never' use unfortunate deaths to forward their own political agenda).

Quote:
And as Ammad says, I have remained consistent on this matter, as if that was the wrong thing to do.
Has new information come to light to warrant a change of view?


Yes. A Lebanese gang attacked Tyler a few hours before the multicultural controlled police murdered him.

Yet, the (Multicultural) media have somehow avoided that SMALL detail in this article. Preferring to focus on the fact that he was 'erratic,' 'DANGEROUS' and 'out of control.'

Quote:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24805590-661,00.html

TYLER Cassidy looked as though he'd been to a war zone, according to a bus driver who dropped the teenager near his home shortly before he was shot dead by police.

"His shirt was all dirty around his stomach. It looked like he'd been in some sort of fight, so I thought I'd better help him out.


It's amazing what little coverage the media has given this little detail isn't it, Mozzaok?

Why don't you contact mediawatch and ask them why they didn't go more in depth on the subject???  Grin

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/

Apparantly, they think late night 'racist' callers to David Oldfield are a more important issue than this.  Roll Eyes Grin

Mozzaok, open your eyes and smell the sh1t. This is dirty work by the media. It's an attempt to destroy this group (SCS) by Government and media. The multiculturalist elites do not want competition.

They do not want people to think that this boys views were somehow justified by his death. As Lebanese youths would be directly linked with this crime committed by Tyler.

Quote:
I still say, unless information comes to light that the police acted improperly, and so far absolutely none has, then no-one has the right to maliciously attack them, as some here did.


I still say, you've got an unhealthy trust in authority, Mozzaok. I still say, this whole situation stinks. The cops keep changing their story. "Oh yeah, by the way, we did try shooting at their legs... blah dee blah blah."

They WON'T admit they screwed up, EVEN if they did.

You act like he's a killer and that he was out control. That the cops couldn't 'control him.' Bullsh1t. Several witnesses said that he was not out of control.


There were 4 armed cops against 1 fifteen year old kid holding two knives. Wow. Difficult to control. The police were notified half an hour before the incident of what the situation was and what the kid looked like. They were warned that he was acting erratic, but they shot him dead. WHY? Because of this sh1t:

Quote:
Victorian police vow crackdown to stop 'another Cronulla'


POLICE will use roadblocks, mounted coast patrols and fines for swearing to protect Melbourne beaches from a Cronulla-style anti-immigrant gang.

The crackdown follows boasts by the 200-strong Melbourne chapter of the Southern Cross Soldiers, who admit having criminals and neo-Nazis in their ranks (OH NO!!! NOT THE BIG SCARY WACISTS!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!), that they will converge on bayside beaches this summer.

The radical police plan to protect beaches from December to March includes:

ROADBLOCKS and car checks to stop troublemakers heading to the beach.

A ZERO-TOLERANCE blitz, including on-the-spot $130 fines for swearing on the beach, to stop trouble before it starts.

MOUNTED horse patrols in troublespots and undercover beach officers.

PHONING parents of drunk and violent youths to pick up their children from police stations.

SHOOTING anyone who opposes multiculturalism now, it seems.


The police, Government and media are collectively responsible for Tyler's death. Why you can't see this, Mozzaok, I don't know.


Quote:
So it stands with an unfortunate and tragic death, of a very troubled, armed youth, being shot, when he violently resisted any attempt to subdue him.

That still sounds justifiable.


God help your puny, anti-wacist brain.  Smiley How do you sleep at night?
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locutius
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #230 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 9:53am
 
Amadd wrote on Dec 22nd, 2008 at 4:37pm:
“… Authority has always attracted the lowest elements in the human race. All through history mankind has been bullied by scum. Those who lord it over their fellows and toss commands in every direction and would boss the grass in the meadow about which way to bend in the wind are the most depraved kind of prostitutes. They will submit to any indignity, perform any vile act, do anything to achieve power. … Every government is a parliament of whores. [We pay them to get screwed?] The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us.” – P. J. O’Rourke



So? Just because I agree with that statement dosen't change or sway what I have said in this topic based on the story that was presented. I am unable to fathom an agenda that profits from shooting 15 year old knife weilding adolesents other than to discourage 15 year old knife wielding adolescents. Which I happen to find a sufficient enough reason.

Quote:
... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New
ALEX CAREY


That is one of my favourite quotes and reflects my distrust in many things corporate and government and media. That does not effect my ability to make a value judgement concerning situational events. You made this an issue of rights and courage and age. I saw it tactically and objectively and pragmatically.

I didn't need to be wronged by the system to distrust it, I was a student of history. Just because you have been wronged does not make you right, even though you seem to think that everyone that disagrees with you are idiots. I educate people about the media, corporations and government. That said, I would hardly use your nonsensical, emotionally driven, knee jerk response to the story as an example of good critical reasoning.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #231 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 10:53am
 
Amadd wrote on Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:50pm:
Quote:
Hmm... I thought you were the squeaky clean one...

I've seen corrupt cops in action in my time, but I know they're in the minority. You appear to have decided all cops are dirty because one cop bullshitted to uphold a pissant charge... You shouldda got a lawyer if you wanted to screw around with them in court.


That's just ridiculous Helian. I'm talking about a squeaky clean "criminal" record. I have no "criminal" record at all.
Check out the records of politicians some time.

Get a lawyer for a "day in court'?? WTF?

And I don't need to bring up every other instance throughout my life where I've found cops to be less than useless to me, but they are a plenty.


Maybe not a real lawyer.... just a crumple suit from legal aid... just to give cross-examination a bit of pathos.

Agonies of an Accidental Anarchist... it has a cinematic ring to it... something loosely based on David Hicks....

The opening scene : The protagonist, the accidental anarchist, wakes up in Gitmo chained to an Islamic zealot, who's arse up, yodelling like an old testament prophet... and the story line works its way through Afghanistan back to the failure-to-indicate affair.

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Amadd
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Mo

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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #232 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 8:04pm
 
Quote:
Maybe not a real lawyer.... just a crumple suit from legal aid... just to give cross-examination a bit of pathos.


Even if I wanted to waste my time trying, do you honestly think that legal aid would come to court in such a case?
They wouldn't even give me advice.

The only reason I  bothered with it in the first place was to bring to light the complaint so alarm bells may possibly ring if it had been a common occurence in the past, or if it was to be in the future.
I was working afternoon shift at the time, so it was sort of convenient.
Most times it's just too much of a hassle to contest anything. It's far more convenient to just part with the extortion fee and move on to the next extortion fee.
But maybe I would've done well to have you by my side, and you could've used mockery as admissable evidence.


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Amadd
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #233 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 8:26pm
 
Quote:
Has new information come to light to warrant a change of view?


Yes there has been a lot of information, as DT said. I haven't been able to find the part about the Lebanese gangs just yet (maybe internet filtering is up and running already?), but it's obvious that his previous beating and robbing sparked the rage. I'd think he would've been consolable if the right method was used - Not pepper spraying.

"The police according to our witnesses chased him, cornered him at the skate park in Northcote, he was surrounded and gunned down by four officers firing at least six or seven shots.


"Ms Stewart said there were a number of shoppers around at the time. It was dark and no-one knew what was happening.

She said that she thought it was "outrageous" that he was shot by police.

"I mean he was terrifying, don't get me wrong, and I'm not easily scared, but he was just a kid. I think it's outrageous.

"I was pretty scared, I guess, and actually just alarmed that the police might be actually shooting someone."

She said that there appeared to have been enough police cars rushing to the scene and there appeared to be no justification for the boy's death. "



Our eyewitness confirmed that Tyler patted her dog, was confronted by the police and sprayed with capsicum foam, then pursued to the skate park, surrounded and hunted down."


"Meanwhile, a woman who saw Tyler minutes before he was gunned down, has used a letter to The Age to deny the boy was aggressive before his death.

The woman, who asked not to be named, said she and her partner were confronted by Tyler after he left the KMart.

She said they felt "nervous maybe, but not threatened".

"I did not encounter someone 'violent and irrational' or 'angry'," the woman wrote.

"I cannot comment on his behaviour before when he was in the shopping centre, or after when he was with the police, but I can remark on our short encounter with him minutes before he was shot.

"He patted our dog on his way to the skate park."

The woman said Tyler was "a kid who needed to sit down and talk".




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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #234 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 8:39pm
 
So now it looks like he was either psychotic or on stimulants (probably not stims, post mortem would have been done by now and it would be through the papers if he was). Either way he would not be of sound mind in either case.

OR

OR

He was a dominant type of personality, the type thugs will target in groups when they are alone in order to make themselves feel more powerful, as often these people will have conditioned fear when seeing the same people again, and was trying to reclaim his former state of mind and was out hunting them down. If that was the case, I see no problem with this kid. The law never works in favour of the victims.

He might have been in the state of mind where he decided "I am not going to be anyone's bitch" and pumped himself up.

If he was walking towards the police, and not rushing them, then clearly he was reasonably composed, either thinking that if I remain calm I can get closer to kill, or that I just want to make them afraid of me, or none of the above.

We do not know if the words he is alleged to have said are true or if the police are lying, which they are TRAINED to do in some cases.

Aren't police supposed to be trained in basic psychology? And this is really basic stuff. However not being there, I don't know the situation. I do know that I know enough to never trust official police reports.

Once a cop always a cop. Remember that, even ex cops who appear to be anti police, get involved with criminals and drugs, are always cops. Might just be undercover, drug squad, and pretending to be a traitor to their original team.

Either way, no cop is going to risk their career and gaol time by telling the truth, if the truth is likely to get them in trouble. If they were prepared to break the law, then obviously they are prepared to lie about it also.
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mozzaok
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #235 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 9:08pm
 
Well I guess it is no surprise that the people who have been "gunning" for the police, will not accept their reporting of the facts anyway, so they do not need to wait for an enquiry, they have already made up their minds.

Because they don't trust any authority figures, they have these officers already condemned as murderers.

How can you even discuss it with people whose minds are already made up?
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easel
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #236 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 9:11pm
 
I don't know if the cops did the right thing or not.

I do know that there are too many criminals (in the sense they are hypocritical and dishonest, morally etc) in the police force.

They might have done the right thing, or they might be lying. None of us know.

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Amadd
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #237 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 9:33pm
 
The initial reports smacked of spin.

I'm much more inclined to believe the word of eyewitnesses over the police, who have a lot to lose.
If they did shoot at the legs, well there's a slight bit of a positive, even though this was argued earlier and poo pooed.
Blind trust is also being prejudiced.

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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #238 - Dec 26th, 2008 at 9:48pm
 
The kid was a bugger. Being shot was the best thing that ever happened to him.
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Re: Did this child deserve to die?
Reply #239 - Dec 26th, 2008 at 10:05pm
 
Quote:
The kid was a bugger. Being shot was the best thing that ever happened to him.


That's a surprise comment Phil.  He was allegedly a white supremist - I thought you had respect for those blokes.
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