Australian Politics Forum - Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #15 - Dec 7^th, 2008 at 8:54pm

Just while you're all stunned into apoplexy about those naughty Muslims not singing the national anthem, spare a little vituperation for the 'evil' Christian Jehovah's Witnesses who have been refusing to be upstanding for or sing the National Anthem, join the armed services or partake in any patriotic celebrations at all, since the foundation of the sect in the late 19th century.

So the next time those little old ladies knock on your door with their copies of The Watchtower, don't forget to give them a little what for.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39515 Gender:	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #16 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 1:15am nice deflection helian.
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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4230	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #17 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 6:07am bliss wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 4:01pm: Get rid of all religious schools, I say..................they're nothing but trouble. ... Including atheistic schools?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #18 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 7:11am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 7^th, 2008 at 12:10am:

muslim is not a race.
Interestingly, invariably people who say that they are athiests or "christians are'nt us to everyone" or such a similar statement are a very spiritual stable person who contributes much to society.
They exhibit, live and agree with fundamantal christian ideals.

Fundamental Christian ideals include belief in God, belief in Jesus as the son of God, the virgin birth of Jesus, the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, miracles, angels, Heaven, Hell, baptism, the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

Atheists live by the fundamental moral ideals that are common to all human societies, Christian or not.

You could boil it down to the golden rule which predates Christianity and appears in various expressions throughout all human society.

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locutius

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #19 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 8:10am

Well said Helian!

Tallowood, atheism is not a religion.

Bliss and Mozz, I agree ban all religious schools that teach primary and secondary education. Non goverment support religious colleges, fine as long as they are 100% funded by their community. Ban all private schools fullstop actually in my opinion.

While we are at it, remove all tax free status for all religions as well.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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bliss

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #20 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 9:12am

Quote:

Just while you're all stunned into apoplexy about those naughty Muslims not singing the national anthem, spare a little vituperation for the 'evil' Christian Jehovah's Witnesses who have been refusing to be upstanding for or sing the National Anthem, join the armed services or partake in any patriotic celebrations at all, since the foundation of the sect in the late 19th century.

So the next time those little old ladies knock on your door with their copies of The Watchtower, don't forget to give them a little what for.

So true..................JW kids generally stand and don't sing the anthem but JWs do not have JW schools and Gov. funding, and they do NOT insist that all should conform to their way of worship or lifestyle. I know, I was one (although I don't associate anymore)

For example, they don't celebrate Xmas.............but they have never demanded that because they don't, all public places should remove decorations etc. They accept that they live in this world and not all will accept their beliefs. They don't participate but accept that others do so.

They also take it when they're the brunt of jokes and persecution (unlike some other groups who want revenge).

So all though I think there is a lot of wrong in the JW organisation and their interpretation of the bible, I must say that apart from their preaching work they do nothing more aggressive to promote or defend their faith.

Australia is in a pickle with it's indiscriminate 'open arms' and political correctness, there are more problems to come I'm sure.

I do not believe religion should be taught in school or that a school should insist on it's religious philosophy being subliminally or directly passed onto our kids. Schools should be teaching equality and humanity, not religious/class distinctions. Private education, religion and money does not make better, smarter, kinder people. Religion should be a parental/personal responsability.

In the ACT the student that got the highest score was a public school student. Funny that! Also, some of the most supportive schools for children with special needs are government schools.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #21 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 9:52am

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 9:12am:

So true..................JW kids generally stand and don't sing the anthem but JWs do not have JW schools and Gov. funding, and they do NOT insist that all should conform to their way of worship or lifestyle. I know, I was one (although I don't associate anymore)

By proselytization, Jehovah's Witnesses do insist that all should conform to their way of worship or lifestyle.

They also demand that adherents not question JW dogma and are told that to do so is to question god itself. Adherents are strongly encouraged to commit more and more time to proselytization and if any choose to leave, they risk being shunned by believers, which may include one’s immediate family.

They certainly do practise at least one thing which is much more pernicious than proselytizing. Jehovah’s Witnesses put lives in danger by adherence to their bizarre doctrine of prohibition on blood transfusions. Now while that may be acceptable when it’s an adult who is freely choosing not to have his own life saved, it is immoral in the extreme to impose that kind of death sentence on a child. For that reason alone, the sect's right to exist should be questioned.

JWs can claim no high ground as a religious group. They display the same immoral bigotry as most others do.

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« Last Edit: Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:05am by NorthOfNorth »

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39515 Gender:	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #22 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:21am hhhmmm, trying to think of the last JW terrorist. Or the athiests marching carrying placards saying "Behead the believers"
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #23 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:22am Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:21am: hhhmmm, trying to think of the last JW terrorist. The last one whose child died for lack of a blood transfusion or the threat thereof.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39515 Gender:	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #24 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:35am Gidday helian - yes, that is a terrible thing for a parent to do. I believe a judge has now overruled on those cases, very rightly, imho
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #25 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:06am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:35am:

Gidday helian - yes, that is a terrible thing for a parent to do.

I believe a judge has now overruled on those cases, very rightly, imho

However, it is still part of JW dogma. We can only wonder what parents would do if they could choose, without the authorities knowing, not to present their sick child at a hospital where they believe a blood transfusion may be required.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest Reply #26 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:12am Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 10:21am: Or the athiests marching carrying placards saying "Behead the believers" Sprint, I know you think you're in some kind of privileged communion with atheists, but really as a practising Christian.... you're part of the problem.
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bliss

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #27 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 9:52am:

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 9:12am:

So true..................JW kids generally stand and don't sing the anthem but JWs do not have JW schools and Gov. funding, and they do NOT insist that all should conform to their way of worship or lifestyle. I know, I was one (although I don't associate anymore)

Quote:

By proselytization, Jehovah's Witnesses do insist that all should conform to their way of worship or lifestyle.

Insist is the wrong word, they just share what they believe is a better way of life and hope for the future. And they are peaceable people, they go away if you ask them to, unlike some other fanatics.

Quote:

They also demand that adherents not question JW dogma and are told that to do so is to question god itself. Adherents are strongly encouraged to commit more and more time to proselytization and if any choose to leave, they risk being shunned by believers, which may include one’s immediate family.

True...........I didn't agree with or like a lot of their practices and no longer associate. The original topic was about religious schools, national anthems and disrespect for others beliefs.

Quote:

They certainly do practise at least one thing which is much more pernicious than proselytizing. Jehovah’s Witnesses put lives in danger by adherence to their bizarre doctrine of prohibition on blood transfusions. Now while that may be acceptable when it’s an adult who is freely choosing not to have his own life saved, it is immoral in the extreme to impose that kind of death sentence on a child. For that reason alone, the sect's right to exist should be questioned.

No argument from me on the blood issue. But let's remember that some of the people that condem JWs for refusing blood are often the very same people who agree with euthanasia........personal choices about one's life (not talking about the kids. In Australia the courts make sure kids get the life-saving treatment). One adult person choosing to not use blood and possibly dying as a result is not like killing hundred or more in a terrorist attack. Slightly different consequences for religious beliefs I'ld say.

Quote:

JWs can claim no high ground as a religious group. They display the same immoral bigotry as most others do.

Yep.............that's right! I left the cult. But JWs still don't hurt other people. They just believe they have the 'truth' and preach it.

Oh yeh, if you're that against them at your door, look up Jehovah's Witnesses in the phone book in your area and tell them you don't want them to come back to your home.....you'll then be a 'do not call' list and they'll never bother you again. Unlike some other fanatical groups.

I'm speaking from personal experience...........what's yours Helion?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #28 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:58am

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am:

Insist is the wrong word, they just share what they believe is a better way of life and hope for the future. And they are peaceable people, they go away if you ask them to, unlike some other fanatics.

Perhaps, but I think the sect expects more than sharing, otherwise the penalty for apostasy would not be severe or exist at all. The aim of proselytization is to induct new members into the faith, not just to share.

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am:

But JWs still don't hurt other people. They just believe they have the 'truth' and preach it.

Almost a text book guarantee that they will inflict suffering.

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am:

But let's remember that some of the people that condem JWs for refusing blood are often the very same people who agree with euthanasia...

Are they? I bet some are vegetarians as well.

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am:

I'm speaking from personal experience...........what's yours Helion?

My direct experience of them is at the door with their copies of The Watchtower.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Muslim school plan draws Gold Coast protest
Reply #29 - Dec 8^th, 2008 at 12:03pm

bliss wrote on Dec 8^th, 2008 at 11:35am:

But JWs still don't hurt other people.

And neither do Muslims by wanting to build an Islamic school, despite the protestations of flag wearing rabble, the p!ssed kind you might also see abusing minorities on Australia Day.

Note that of the songs they were playing at the 'protest', none was reported as being 'Advance Australia Fair', just ones about eating vegemite and getting p!ssed.

So much for their patriotism.

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