Australian Politics Forum - Muslim foum may need your input

Calanen

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #45 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 9:55am

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I've made so many excuses for Muslims in the past - but this is abhorrent. Seriously there has to be something wrong with Muslim women who live in Western countries in the 21st century and put up with all of the above. Are they so submissive and weak that they will accept the teachings of someone from the 7th century?

You ask women who are captives to violence and the risk of death to be brave - when our newspapers are too afraid to publish a Mohammed cartoon because of what might happen?

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Gaybriel

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #46 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 10:02am

mantra wrote on Dec 5^th, 2008 at 6:26am:

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"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'an there have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage.

This is incredible - so it's wrong not to want to beat your wife.

First you're allowed to tap your wife - now some other interpretation says you can beat her.

no- this interpretation says 'beat' as in tap with a scarf or miswak. that is what is meant by beat. the terminology is offputting- but that is the definition of beat.

I think this is a massive problem- when I hear beat I think of someone actually beating someone else up, fists, feet etc etc- but here it is not used in that way

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Who determines whether her "nasty" behaviour justifies a beating - the angry husband? Then if all else fails - go to your relatives for their advice. No second guesses as to who they would support.

It's easy to say women can apply for a divorce, but after a person has been beaten for a period of time, they begin to believe they deserve it, especially if the Quran endorses it.

it doesn't

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So the men are all so decent that when they receive double the amount women receive in a marriage settlement - the difference goes towards the ongoing support of the ex wife and children.

Pull the other one.

we are talking theoretically about things that are supposed to be enforced by law, much the same as australian divorce law. the problem we have is that shariah is not practised correctly anywhere as I understand it.

not to mention any assets the woman has she keeps solely to herself, and she also receives a bulk payout from the husband.

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I've made so many excuses for Muslims in the past - but this is abhorrent. Seriously there has to be something wrong with Muslim women who live in Western countries in the 21st century and put up with all of the above. Are they so submissive and weak that they will accept the teachings of someone from the 7th century?

the muslim women I know are not submissive and weak- it all depends on how your interpret these things and how you apply them in your life.

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freediver

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #47 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 10:54am

It is inevitable that some people would use that verse in the Koran to justify full-on wife-beating. The Koran must be judged by it's inevitable consequences, not just the intended ones. After all, it is a law and a system of government, not a personal moral code. If it allows a pedophile to marry a 6 year old girl, drag her off into the hills to live with her, but 'expects' him not to have sex with her until she is ready, then the law facilitates pedophilia. Just like it facilitates wife beaters. No one would tolerate a law that encourages that, but because it has a religious angle people think it should be judged by the technicalities, not by the reality.

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the problem we have is that shariah is not practised correctly anywhere as I understand it.

That's because the 'correct' practice is just as abhorent.

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mantra

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #48 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 11:36am

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You ask women who are captives to violence and the risk of death to be brave - when our newspapers are too afraid to publish a Mohammed cartoon because of what might happen?

Good point Calanen. I assumed there were no reported cases of violence because the media would be on to it straight away, but forgot they were so cautious about offending Muslims.

And Gaybriel - you said the women you know are not submissive and weak - that's good news, because it means that your generation of Muslim women will not accept the treatment that was meted out to their mothers and hopefully they will bring their daughters up to be even stronger.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47432 At my desk.	Re: Muslim foum may need your input Reply #49 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 11:42am I takes a few generations and a supportive culture to beat the assertiveness out of women.
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Soren

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #50 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 7:27pm

tallowood wrote on Dec 5^th, 2008 at 12:38am:

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The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time.

What are rules of islamic divorce? Do women and men get equal parts when they split under islamic law?

If you are a man - easy.

If you are a woman - nobody wants to know you. Have a look.

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/showpost.php?p=293635&postcount=1

There is a lot of shuffling of feet and glancing away.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47432 At my desk.	Re: Muslim foum may need your input Reply #51 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 7:59pm One sure way out for a woman is to get caught cheating. Then all her suffering will be over, though it can be a painful and drawn out process.
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Soren

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Re: Muslim foum may need your input
Reply #52 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 8:46pm

Nostalgic -isms, like islamism, fascism, communism, want to re-primitivise the world.

They are against everything that is not backward or backward-looking. That's why each of the above finds both America andd the jews foremost among their enemies.

America and the jews are the bulwarks against the re-primitivisation of the world in all the guises of tribal, arian, class grievance mongering.

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