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Muslims can't abide criticism (Read 4780 times)
Grendel
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Muslims can't abide criticism
Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:59pm
 
50 MUSLIM NATIONS PUT UP UN RESOLUTION TO BAN CRITICISM OF ISLAM

"....nations would be able to seek extradition and trial abroad of persons who make statements critical or offensive to one or all faiths anywhere in the world."

from JTA Global Jewish News Service

http://jta.org/news/article/2008/11/20/1001103/op-ed-dont-defend-religion-by-silencing-free-speech

NEW YORK (JTA)—A draft resolution scheduled for consideration by a committee of the United Nations General Assembly threatens to silence criticism of religion. The resolution, circulated by the Organization of the Islamic Conference, representing more than 50 Muslim nations, is perversely being advanced under the guise of protecting human rights.

In its current form, the resolution would declare defamation of religion to be a violation of international law. The resolution's drafters hope to circumvent national constitutional protections for freedom of speech, including the United States' own First Amendment, by superseding international law. If the resolution is ultimately adopted, the effort to ban speech defamatory of religion will be a centerpiece of an upcoming U.N. conference against racism, the so-called Durban II meeting, to be held in Geneva next spring.

The resolution is the culmination of many years of quiet work by the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), which has set as a goal the criminalization of any "defamation of religion, especially Islam."

By making such "defamation of religion" a crime under international law, nations would be able to seek extradition and trial abroad of persons who make statements critical or offensive to one or all faiths anywhere in the world.

This is not merely a hypothetical.

A private group in Jordan (where private parties may initiate criminal prosecutions) is seeking extradition of the Danish cartoonist and publishers of the "Mohammad" cartoons to stand trial in Jordan for defaming Islam. As a result, Denmark's foreign minister has begun telling OIC members that if a ban on "defamation of religion" is part of the anti-racism agenda in Geneva, it and other European nations will not participate.

Defamation is defined in law as the making of a false statement about a person. Finding that a statement about religion is defamatory means finding that it is false. Like now discredited blasphemy laws, requiring judges to decide the truth of competing religious claims is to ask them to decide something well beyond their ken. Of course, offensive things about specific religions are said. Some of these are gratuitously offensive—even demonstrably false—and many are simply rude. Civility and the need to get along would often dictate that such speech be condemned—thankfully the freedom of speech guarantees the right to criticize.

It is also no surprise that religious people take offense at the mocking of their sacred ideas and values. For example, last week a meeting of Catholic and Muslim leaders issued a declaration that "founding figures and symbols they consider sacred should not be subjected to any form of mockery or ridicule." European rabbis were uniformly critical of the decision of Danish newspapers to print the Mohammed cartoons. At an interfaith meeting in Madrid earlier this year, religious leaders echoed the OIC's call for an end to defamation of religion.

This sensitivity is understandable. But it is not compatible with a free society.

Rules of etiquette are one thing, criminal sanctions quite another.  It is a mistake to impose civility by force of law, and to confuse sensitivity with criminality.

Is it—should it be—criminally defamatory to say that Judaism has been superseded by Christianity, or is devoid of spirit, being dominated by law, or that the belief in an incarnate God is idolatry? Was Martin Luther a criminal because of his (to modern ears) unforgivably sharp attacks on the papacy? What of reciprocal Catholic attacks on Protestantism—in this country, as late as the last century, prior to Vatican II? Should it be criminal to say that some African faiths (and perhaps Hinduism) are pagan? That belief in God is a delusion? What of best-selling books by Christopher Hitchens and others insisting that over time religion has given rise to much violence and done little good? Are these books all to be banned?

The draft resolution suggests that any hint that "terrorism [is] associated with any religion …" should be made illegal. Why? It is simply an unpleasant fact that in too many places terror is committed in the name of specific religions. This is true of a small minority of West Bank settlers invoking the Bible, and it is surely true of terrorists in Israel/Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon and India/Pakistan who invoke the Koran. Some anti-abortion bombers are motivated by Christian teaching. Those who engage in religiously based terrorism cite traditional texts to support their activity. It should not be illegal to criticize those claims.

No one would think of shielding secular political ideals (say, nationalism or communism) from criticism that they foment violence. Religion is not entitled to a special immunity.  Contrary to what the resolution suggests, the right to freedom of religious practice and of equal treatment is not offended by such speech. Its targets are free to respond in kind, to call attention to the disruptive effect of false charges, or for that matter, to reaffirm their beliefs.

pt 1
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« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:04pm by Grendel »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: Muslims can abide criticism
Reply #1 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:59pm
 
pt 2

Efforts are being made by experts on the United Nations staff to limit the ban on "defamation of religion" to such speech that directly and predictably incites to religious violence or discrimination. That effort raises almost as many questions as it resolves, and the current draft does not even come close to resolving them. The OIC has benefited from a lack of attention to, and debate about, its proposals, outside of opposition from a few governments (including our own). That needs to change.
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freediver
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Re: Muslims can abide criticism
Reply #2 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:03pm
 
This will be the end of the UN if it goes ahead. If it can't stand up to this sort of bullying then it has outlived it's usefulness.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values#OIC_vs...
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Gaybriel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #3 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 1:54pm
 
Shocked

if that's a true reflection I can't believe it's even being entertained.

I understand restrictions on language that will incite hatred etc etc - but banning criticism is ten types of crazy

I wonder how much correlation this has to the anti-defamation laws against individuals etc. There's been a fair amount of criticism about those too hasn't there?
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #4 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:23pm
 
Quote:
I wonder how much correlation this has to the anti-defamation laws against individuals etc. There's been a fair amount of criticism about those too hasn't there?


Such as?
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Gaybriel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #5 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:23pm:
Quote:
I wonder how much correlation this has to the anti-defamation laws against individuals etc. There's been a fair amount of criticism about those too hasn't there?


Such as?


just one random example

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/defamation.html

I think quite a few people have had issues with the defamation laws- because they see it as a violation of freedom of speech

which of course is not guaranteed in australia as we don't have a bill of rights (we need a bill of rights!!)
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #6 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:38pm
 
Quote:
I understand restrictions on language that will incite hatred etc etc - but banning criticism is ten types of crazy


So what about drawings...?
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freediver
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #7 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:41pm
 
It is really just forcing people to take responsibility for what they say. If you can show that what you say is justified, then you are legally protected. If you destroy someone's business out of spite by spreading lies about them, you should be held accountable. Slander legislation is ultimately not about loss of reputation. It is about unjustified financial loss. Our society would not function very well without it.

The issue is more to do with the cost of justice, not the principles.
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tallowood
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #8 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:45pm
 
Yes it is entertained by OIC (Organization of the Islamic Conference).

It seems that Islam can't stand criticism as it knows that any critical thinking will shutter its weak foundations.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/LegalIssues/bg2206.cfm

Quote:
Criticism of Religion Is Not Incitement to Violence. The proponents of a "defamation of reli­gions" law maintain that such a measure is neces­sary in order to avoid incitement to violence and discrimination.[17]  The 2008 "Combating defama­tion of religions" resolution passed by the U.N. Human Rights Council states that the Council "deplores the use of printed, audio-visual and elec­tronic media, including the Internet, and of any other means to incite acts of violence, xenophobia or related intolerance and discrimination towards Islam or any religion."[18]  In other words, criticizing, insulting, or spoofing Islam or any other religion in a newspaper, on television, in a movie, or on the Internet should be outlawed.


There are many people who religiously believe in freedom of speech and such a proposal is obviously defamation of such belief. So it looks like OIC condemned itself.



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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים
 
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Gaybriel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #9 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:41pm:
It is really just forcing people to take responsibility for what they say. If you can show that what you say is justified, then you are legally protected. If you destroy someone's business out of spite by spreading lies about them, you should be held accountable. Slander legislation is ultimately not about loss of reputation. It is about unjustified financial loss. Our society would not function very well without it.

The issue is more to do with the cost of justice, not the principles.


yes I agree- I prob should have qualified my statements more.

you shouldn't be able to go say whatever you want- but at the same time, I think the application of these laws have the potential to go a bit far
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Gaybriel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #10 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:49pm
 
Grendel wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 2:38pm:
Quote:
I understand restrictions on language that will incite hatred etc etc - but banning criticism is ten types of crazy


So what about drawings...?


drawings, language, art, interpretive dance Tongue

whatever category they fit into- criticism, slander, defamation, sedition- etc etc- same things should apply
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #11 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 3:11pm
 
muslems say that according to koran there is only one god named allah. that is obvious criticism against other religions. Therefore the Organisation of the Islamic Conference if they are serious about not allowing any criticism against any religion should turn their energy on eradication of that derogatory book.
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Grendel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #12 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 3:13pm
 
So G you condemn without qualification the destruction and violence brought about by the islamics due to some satirical drawings in denmark?

Quote:
Criticism of Religion Is Not Incitement to Violence.


Yet here even here we have Muslims and their supporters saying that criticism or even dissent or questioning is AN ATTACK ON ISLAM and therefore all MUSLIMS.
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Gaybriel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #13 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 3:34pm
 
Grendel wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 at 3:13pm:
So G you condemn without qualification the destruction and violence brought about by the islamics due to some satirical drawings in denmark?


yes, yes I do
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Grendel
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Re: Muslims can't abide criticism
Reply #14 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 3:38pm
 
Well then me gerl, there's hope for you yet.
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