Australian Politics Forum - other religions

freediver

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Re: other religions
Reply #15 - Nov 13^th, 2008 at 1:39pm

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

The doctrine called for slaughter

See, quite obviously this is what you believe the doctrine to be.

It's not Islamic doctrine to slaughter them, and I've already stated this. Yet you persist with your ridiculous claims about a wall of silence and deflections.

Now since you quite obviously believe it is, and have said so.. why not just bring forth whatever you claim it's based on, and then we casn actually engage in the discussion.

Really, if anyone can't justt discuss this straight it's obviously you.

That was a question Abu, not a statement. You are sinking pretty low if you have to resort to quoting half a sentence so that it can be taken out of context.

I am asking a question. You are doing your best to avoid it, or to make up strawmen answers supposedly provided by me so you can knock them down without providing an ounce of truth. Any other interpretation is absurd.

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Grendel

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Re: other religions
Reply #16 - Nov 13^th, 2008 at 3:28pm

Quote:

Where did anyone mention the crusades?

Lestat only mentioned the atrocities of Christians inside Europe, not their escapades elsewhere.

Guilty conscience perhaps?

No I mentioned it... he's mentioned it b4. Thought I'd cover as many bases as I could b4 it came back at me again.

He mentioned the Christians/Spanish outside of Europe.
So yes their escapades elsewhere...

Guilty? Not I. I've only ever raised my hand in anger once.
Not a pleasant experience.
Do you think we have a collective conscience going back over time to adam and eve? I don't even hold myself guilty for my fathers sins why would I for someone I didn't know centuries ago?

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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #17 - Nov 13^th, 2008 at 8:26pm

Quote:

"When the moon rides on high
As she crosses the sky,
And the stars on her gown trail behind.
Then we wiccans below,
Are with love all aglow,
Just to see her so brightly enshrined.

On the night of Full Moon,
As we sing to the tune,
Of the Lady who watches above,
We raise high our song,
As she glides by so strong,
And we bask in the light of her Love"

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Phillip

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Re: other religions
Reply #18 - Nov 13^th, 2008 at 10:41pm

freediver wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 2:39pm:

There has been a lot of discussion here about the treatment of Christians and Jews under Islamic law. However, I can't seem to find out much about the treatment of atheists, Hindus and other religious groups. How does Islam command Muslims to treat such people?

depends on the type of muslim and what school of thought they follow. Basically the shafi'i extended the protection(of people of the book) to Hindus Buddhists and athiests. And shafi'i was the school dominant in the areas where muslims and people of those other religions co-existed.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: other religions Reply #19 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 9:37am So they are a Shia sect? What about Sunnis? What about pagans?
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Lestat

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Re: other religions
Reply #20 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 11:43am

freediver wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 9:37am:

So they are a Shia sect? What about Sunnis? What about pagans?

It is Sunni, and it is not a sect, more like a school of thought.

Less loaded questions, more sincere enquiries, and we may even begin to take you seriously.

What about pagans?

There are plenty of pagen tribes in north and central Africa which have survived to this day...which were under Islamic rule for centuries.

In comparison, Saxon/Aztec/Mayan pagan culture/religons were completely destroyed under Christian rule....

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: other religions Reply #21 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:05pm I thought the Shiits dominated in the east, which is where you would expect Islam to come into most contact with Hindus and Bhuddists. Is it that they didn't manage to co-exist in those areas? Please stop these silly accusations of insincerity. If I didn't want to know, I wouldn't ask.
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Grendel

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Re: other religions
Reply #22 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:10pm

So according to you Spaniards who were on a world conquest kick... in the name of Spain and it's King... not in the name of God. and who were at war with other countries who were also nominally Christian somehow equates to Christianity trying to conquer the world and commit genocide?

Hmmm... sorry

mod:don't change usernames

... but history and world politics is much more complicated than the us and them mentality you as a muslim (vs Them) have developed.

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« Last Edit: Nov 14^th, 2008 at 3:25pm by Gaybriel »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: other religions Reply #23 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:26pm I think it's just projection. Muhammed did actually try to conquer the world in a military sense, so Muslims assume the same of other religions.
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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #24 - Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:41pm

Lestat wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 11:43am:

...
What about pagans?

There are plenty of pagen tribes in north and central Africa which have survived to this day...which were under Islamic rule for centuries.

In comparison, Saxon/Aztec/Mayan pagan culture/religons were completely destroyed under Christian rule....

Christians had colonies in Africa for centuries too and plenty of pagen tribes.

As for Saxons let me ask you how many Pagans are now amongst Arabs?

Aztec and Mayan Empires did not survived but indian tribes did and some of them still practice their old ways and even incorporated their traditions in LA types of Christianity, which hardly can be said about any types of Islam.

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abu_rashid

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Re: other religions
Reply #25 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:19pm

freediver,

Quote:

I thought the Shiits dominated in the east

Shi'a didn't really dominate anywhere. They were always just a small fringe, kind of like a secret society. Until the Safavid times, when they did take over Persia, and that's why today Iran is Shi'a, but that's about it. Apart from that, they just exist in a few pockets here and there. Most of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan were from the mainstream.

Grendel,

Quote:

So according to you Spaniards who were on a world conquest kick... in the name of Spain and it's King

Wikipedia entry for Conquistador:
Quote:

The stated purposes of these conquests were equally to spread the word of God and to bring civilization to the most obscure parts of the world.

Wikipedia entry for Hernan Cortes:
Quote:

He also supported efforts to evangelize the indigenous people to Christianity and sponsored new explorations.

tallowood,

Quote:

some of them still practice their old ways and even incorporated their traditions in LA types of Christianity, which hardly can be said about any types of Islam

Never heard of the Sikhs?
Or the Yazidis??
Or the Bahai???
Or the Shabaks????

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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #26 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:31pm

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:19pm:

...
tallowood,
Quote:

some of them still practice their old ways and even incorporated their traditions in LA types of Christianity, which hardly can be said about any types of Islam

Never heard of the Sikhs?
Or the Yazidis??
Or the Bahai???
Or the Shabaks????

From link you have given:
Quote:

Generally Sikhism has had amicable relations with other religions. However, during the Islamic conquest of India (1556–1707), prominent Sikh Gurus were martyred by the ruling Mughals for opposing the Mughal's persecution of non-Islamic religious communities.[35]

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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #27 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:36pm

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Thus, the Yazidi have been accused of devil worship. Because of this and due to their pre-Islamic beliefs, they have been oppressed by their Muslim neighbors. Treatment of Yazidis was exceptionally harsh during the rule of the Ottoman Empire during the 18th and the first half of 19th century and their numbers dwindled under Ottoman rule both in Syria and Iraq. Massacres at the hand of Ottoman Turks and Muslim Kurdish princes almost wiped out their community in the 19th century.[15][16] Several punitive expeditions were organized against the Yazidis by the Turkish governors (Wāli) of Diyarbakir, Mosul and Baghdad. These operations were legitimized by fatāwa from Islamic clerics.[17] The objective of these persecutions was the forced conversion of Yazidis to the Sunni faith of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.[18]

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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #28 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:40pm

Quote:

Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, especially Iran, where over 200 believers were executed between 1978 and 1998.[39] The marginalization of the Iranian Bahá'ís by current governments is rooted in historical efforts by Shi`a clergy to persecute the religious minority. When the Báb started attracting a large following, the clergy hoped to stop the movement from spreading by stating that its followers were enemies of God, and these led to mob attacks and public executions.[29] Starting in the twentieth century, in addition to repression that impacted individual Bahá'ís, centrally-directed campaigns that targeted the entire Bahá'í community and institutions were initiated.[6

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tallowood

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Re: other religions
Reply #29 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 11:44pm

Quote:

There is a close affinity between the Shabak and the Yazidis, and Shabaks perform pilgrimage to Yazidi shrines[3]...

Many Shabaks along with Zengana and Hawrami people were relocated and deported to concentration camps (mujamma'at in Arabic) far away from their original homeland. Despite all these actions, Iraqi government efforts at forced assimilation and Arabization of Shabaks (and Zengana and Hawramis), only led to a strengthened sense of a common Kurdish identity among them....

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