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ishmael (Read 3031 times)
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ishmael
Nov 4th, 2008 at 9:56pm
 
The story of one of The Bibles nastiest names.



Prophecy of Ishmael pre birth.
“The angel of the LORD also said to her:
      "You are now with child
      and you will have a son.
      You shall name him Ishmael,
      for the LORD has heard of your misery.
He will be a wild donkey of a man;
      his hand will be against everyone
      and everyone's hand against him,
      and he will live in hostility
      toward all his brothers.’"                                                      Genesis 16:11,12

Gods covenant with Isaac only.
                                                                       
“And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"  Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.”
Genesis 17:18,19


Ishmael dies, prophecy of his descendants being in hostility.

“Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.”
Genesis 25:17,18



His daughters marry

“so he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham, in addition to the wives he already had.”
Genesis 28:9

“Esau took his wives from the women of Canaan: Adah daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Oholibamah daughter of Anah and granddaughter of Zibeon the Hivite- 3 also Basemath daughter of Ishmael and sister of Nebaioth.”
Genesis:36:3


Deception and assassination

“Gedaliah took an oath to reassure them and their men. "Do not be afraid of the Babylonian officials," he said. "Settle down in the land and serve the king of Babylon, and it will go well with you." In the seventh month, however, Ishmael son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, who was of royal blood, came with ten men and assassinated Gedaliah and also the men of Judah and the Babylonians who were with him at Mizpah.”
2Kings 25:24,25




Commander of units of 100 soldiers.

“In the seventh year Jehoiada showed his strength. He made a covenant with the commanders of units of a hundred: Azariah son of Jeroham, Ishmael son of Jehohanan, Azariah son of Obed, Maaseiah son of Adaiah, and Elishaphat son of Zicri.”
2 Chronicles 23:1


Bloodline continues

“From the descendants of Pashhur:
      Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethanel, Jozabad and Elasah.”
Ezra 10:22


Spoken about in a rumour of assassination

“Johanan son of Kareah and all the army officers still in the open country came to Gedaliah at Mizpah 14 and said to him, "Don't you know that Baalis king of the Ammonites has sent Ishmael son of Nethaniah to take your life?" But Gedaliah son of Ahikam did not believe them.”
Jerimiah 40:13,14


Nb, followers of baal used to sacrifice their children in fire to him.
The Ammonites came from the incest between the demented Job and his two daughters after the destruction of Sodom and Gemorrah.
The offspring became the Ammonites and the Moabites.
Both tribes were always fighting.
This is who Ishmael is associated with.

tbc
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Re: ishmael
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 9:57pm
 

Both tribes were always fighting.
This is who Ishmael is associated with.



Assassination successful, murders many Jews.
“In the seventh month Ishmael son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, who was of royal blood and had been one of the king's officers, came with ten men to Gedaliah son of Ahikam at Mizpah. While they were eating together there, Ishmael son of Nethaniah and the ten men who were with him got up and struck down Gedaliah son of Ahikam, the son of Shaphan, with the sword, killing the one whom the king of Babylon had appointed as governor over the land. Ishmael also killed all the Jews who were with Gedaliah at Mizpah, as well as the Babylonian soldiers who were there.
The day after Gedaliah's assassination, before anyone knew about it,  eighty men who had shaved off their beards, torn their clothes and cut themselves came from Shechem, Shiloh and Samaria, bringing grain offerings and incense with them to the house of the LORD. Ishmael son of Nethaniah went out from Mizpah to meet them, weeping as he went. When he met them, he said, "Come to Gedaliah son of Ahikam."  When they went into the city, Ishmael son of Nethaniah and the men who were with him slaughtered them and threw them into a cistern.  But ten of them said to Ishmael, "Don't kill us! We have wheat and barley, oil and honey, hidden in a field." So he let them alone and did not kill them with the others. Now the cistern where he threw all the bodies of the men he had killed along with Gedaliah was the one King Asa had made as part of his defense against Baasha king of Israel. Ishmael son of Nethaniah filled it with the dead.
Ishmael made captives of all the rest of the people who were in Mizpah—the king's daughters along with all the others who were left there, over whom Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard had appointed Gedaliah son of Ahikam. Ishmael son of Nethaniah took them captive and set out to cross over to the Ammonites.
When Johanan son of Kareah and all the army officers who were with him heard about all the crimes Ishmael son of Nethaniah had committed, they took all their men and went to fight Ishmael son of Nethaniah. They caught up with him near the great pool in Gibeon. When all the people Ishmael had with him saw Johanan son of Kareah and the army officers who were with him, they were glad. All the people Ishmael had taken captive at Mizpah turned and went over to Johanan son of Kareah. But Ishmael son of Nethaniah and eight of his men escaped from Johanan and fled to the Ammonites.”           Jerimiah 41:1-15 

There is no later mention of Ishmael in The Bible.
He does turn up later on in history, mentioned about 1500 years later.


And we [Allah] made covenant with Abraham and Ishmael . . ."Surah II”

WHO do they make a covenant with ????????
THAT explains a LOT !

The name “Ishmael” means : “God has gathered.”
Used to be said at funerals.
The new hamas leader is an Ishmael.




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Re: ishmael
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:17pm
 

Didn't you already start a thread about Ishamel (pbuh)? When I find it I'll merge this into it.

Quote:
The name “Ishmael” means : “God has gathered.”


Ishmael means "God hears", not "God has gathered", you'd better go and learn a little more about Biblical Hebrew I think.
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Re: ishmael
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:21pm
 
you've probably already deleted it.


mohammad was fond of assassainations too, unsurprisingly

"He will be a wild donkey of a man;
     his hand will be against everyone
     and everyone's hand against him,
     and he will live in hostility
     toward all his brothers.’"            


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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:27pm by Sprintcyclist »  

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Re: ishmael
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:37pm
 

Well that just proves how inaccurate your book is, because Ishmael's (pbuh) descendants got along fine with all the other descendants of Abraham (pbuh). The conflict with the sons of Isaac (pbuh) is only recent (less than 100 years). Prior to that, Jews in fact claim to have had their golden age under the Arabs.

And in fact, if anything, it's Christians who've spent most of their time conflicting with Jews, murdering them en masse, loading them into gas chambers etc.
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Re: ishmael
Reply #5 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:57pm
 
well actually the nazis weren't christians

hitler did away with religion and created his own
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Re: ishmael
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 3:21am
 
Gaybriel wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 11:57pm:
well actually the nazis weren't christians

hitler did away with religion and created his own

Many Nazis were Christians - Generally Catholic or Lutheran.

Hitler had a deal with the Vatican to allow the Catholic Church to operate within the Reich.
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Re: ishmael
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:11am
 

gaybriel - you have allowed abu to post an offtopic remark - then accelerated the offtopic direction by your own !!

Would you delete both off topic posts as you saw fit to delete mine please ?
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Re: ishmael
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:46am
 
Gaybriel,

Quote:
well actually the nazis weren't christians


Many of them were as helian pointed out, and even till this day, many neo-Nazis are Christians. Yes some are not, and they detest Christianity as a Jewish-based belief.

Also, persecution of Jews in Europe goes way back beyond the time of the Nazis, people like Martin Luther, the founding father of Protestant Christianity in Europe wrote many books about the Jews and how best to persecute them:

Quote:
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..." He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them."


This was not just some lone crazed racist, this was THE most prominent Christian ever in the history of the Protestant movement. No chance for sprint to blame it all on the Catholics here.
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Re: ishmael
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 9:28am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 8:46am:
Gaybriel,

Quote:
well actually the nazis weren't christians


Many of them were as helian pointed out, and even till this day, many neo-Nazis are Christians. Yes some are not, and they detest Christianity as a Jewish-based belief.

Also, persecution of Jews in Europe goes way back beyond the time of the Nazis, people like Martin Luther, the founding father of Protestant Christianity in Europe wrote many books about the Jews and how best to persecute them:

Quote:
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..." He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them."


This was not just some lone crazed racist, this was THE most prominent Christian ever in the history of the Protestant movement. No chance for sprint to blame it all on the Catholics here.

And check out the day and month of Krystallnacht and the birth date of the "great" Martin Luther. The Nazis gave Luther his birthday wish.
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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2008 at 9:43am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: ishmael
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 10:36am
 
there are a number of fallacy of guilt by association used here.

I ask the biased moderator (Abu) to delete most posts here and stop falsely moving my threads or threatening me by PM



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Re: ishmael
Reply #11 - Nov 5th, 2008 at 1:59pm
 
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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
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