I guess Rupert's latest outburst stuck in my craw because not so long ago Aboo was making similar disparaging remarks about his fellow Australians.  

So here's some facts.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:GxE9pi8mbB4J:www.8hourday.org.au/pdf/888_fact_03_work_rest_play.pdf+44+hour+weeks+australians+work&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

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How are they right?

I believe Aboo used the word lazy (amongst others) to describe Australians  work ethic or lack thereof and Rupert used the word bludger and said; "While a safety net is warranted for those in genuine need, we must avoid institutionalising idleness. The bludger should not be our national icon."  Which is factually bereft of reality and based on a long since dead stereotype.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/on-bludging-a-republic-and-the-public-education-scandal/2008/11/02/1225560637998.html

good grief...  Aboo was talking about infidel Australians fd.
Rupert was basing his ideas on a dead stereotype.
Australians are amongst the hardest workers in the world...  been that way for many years now.

what are you on?
about?

I'm saying that to someone who works a lot harder than us, we will appear lazy. To someone who works less, we will appear hardworking. Hence Abu's perception of us as lazy is probably justified, if he gets up every morning before sunrise just to pray.

Most 3rd worlders would be harder working, especially in places like India. that's why your 'stats' are always limited to 'the developed world'.

Most Muslims get up before dawn to pray. That gives them a pretty big head start over most Australians.

Sometimes you are a complete idiot fd...

Mantra,

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Do you think Muslims have some special anti-traffic powers?

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This is a valid point. In summer I do sometimes go back to bed, because sunrise is so early. But for the rest of the year, there's no point. If you're up at 6:00 to pray and have to leave home by about 8:00, how much extra sleep are you going to get?

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Twice at most, usually once. Also praying takes less than 5 minutes, and I don't know about others, but I always have done it during my lunch break.

So what you are saying is if they are Muslim they have prayer breaks on top of all the other breaks.   


you are such an apologist.

We have a special prayer room for them and thety take longer than 5 mins and they don't do it during their breaks for lunch etc.

Oh and gaybriel they have lots of smoke breaks too.

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yeah yeah blah blah


jordan484 wrote on Nov 12^th, 2008 at 11:03am:


well I'm sure if 5 or 10 mins more makes you wee your pants that much- you could always insist they get there a bit earlier

is this what keeps you people awake at night?

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Calm down Gaybriel - yes we have non-muslim bludgers as well.  Australia has always had a reputation as the welfare country, but it's been a couple of years since the baby bonus was $3,000 - it's now $5,000.  Then we have family allowance which is at least $150-200 p.f per child but it increases substantially again after 2 children.  We have the $600 annual payment for children under 16.  What do you think your annual income would be if you had 9 or 10 children and you weren't a PAYE employee?

You're looking at minimally - at least $1,000 to $1,200 a week in family payments alone.  Another $6,000 annually if there's 10 kids under 16 and then take into account the parent's unemployment benefits or disability - and you're looking at $80,000 - $90,000 p.a. tax free and with all the government benefits attached.

I can't remember his name - but that bloke who used to speak on behalf of Sheikh Hilaly - he was having his 10th child - probably 12 kids by now and apart from translating for the Sheikh (I don't know whether he was legally paid for that) - he didn't have a job, although he wrote a couple of small religious books.

Non-muslims do it as well - but obviously not on such a grand scale, although there have been a few single women who have almost reached that capacity in kids.

It looks like Grendel is right about you - you are an apologist.  At least Abu is up front and straight about his convictions and not pretending to be someone he isn't.

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Usually I would judge a person on their merits Abu - but her aggressiveness is a little distracting and obfuscates her "merits".

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Yes it's true that many of the kids end up ratbags running amok - but you can't deny that in areas like Lakemba and Punchbowl there aren't streets full of idle working age men and many of them would have large families.  But seeing as there are no statistics on who's producing the most children - single mothers or Muslims - we'll have to assume they're propagating in equal amounts.

You expect more from an apologist jordan?

mantra wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 6:17am:


please excuse my facetitious tone- my frustration got the better of me.

the point I was trying to make is that govt pay outs hardly totally off set the expense of raising a child. and to suggest that a community that comprises 2% of the population could have such a dramatic impact on Australia is not logical.

even if these payments did offset the expense of a child- they would hardly be significant enough to throw the rest of the economy out of whack.

large families have never been discouraged in Australia. Our population has been encouraged to grow from the word go- and I see this line of argument as merely an excuse for people to vent their frustrations about their lives, whilst using whatever immigrant group happens to be in the spotlight as a scapegoat.

these comments and arguments are not new- they have been around for a long time, and when you see the pattern- it's hard to ignore what's motivating such repititious behaviour, particularly when the allegations against immigrants have time and time again proven to be false

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if that is your opinion you are certainly entitled to it. but I assure you I am straight up about what I believe.

but I am also straight up about the fact that I don't have all the answers. I have certain beliefs and understandings yes, certain morals I see as uncompromisable- if you think I "umm and aahhh" about things- it is not because I am avoiding anything or dodging around a topic- it may just be because I am learning as I speak to people, I am forming my opinion in dialogue with others, to benefit from their knowledge as well as my own.

I have learnt that to doggedly argue a point without any willingness to hear the other person is arrogance and pride- and I try not to give into those things (not always successfully)

if you feel this doesn't make me honest then so be it- but really I am just trying to understand things comprehensively and to the best of my ability

apologies again for my tone earlier to everyone but specifically to grendel to whom it was directed. I should have controlled my temper.

gaybriel - so now the whole country is to be less productive ?
ie muslims and nonmuslioms having extra breaks.

you can start a company that offers this to all employees and stays profitable.


why don't we just all lie down and comtemplate our navals for 14 years so we don't offend anyone ???


if someone wants extra breaks, do it in your own time and dont offend others

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 20^th, 2008 at 1:52am:


it's not about offending people- it's about catering to the diversity that we actively encourage to proliferate.

australia cannot purport itself to be mutli-cultural and then refuse to cater to the diversity that is inherent to this multi-culturalism. it's unrealistic, not to menton hypocritical.

you are overreacting, making a mountain out of a molehilld

unhypocritical?

If you decide to stop working, the whole country becomes less productive. Just not by very much. 2% of the population will obviously have an impact.

I think the Dirty Digger was talking about handouts to industry, not workers.

freediver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2008 at 4:06pm:


It's pretty funny that this ladies name is Gabriel.