Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant... (Read 6048 times)
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #15 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 11:42am
 
mantra wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:10am:
Just

Muslims also have 2 or 3 breaks during a working day for prayers - non muslims don't.


as if- what about smoking breaks, tea breaks, coffee breaks? and like abu said- it's twice max (unless you work completely insane hours, in which case you're entitled to a break anyway)

Quote:
Many Australian non muslim workers work straight through the day and many of them are now working 2 or 3 jobs just to get by because they don't have the enormous families that Muslims propagate - which means many Muslim males don't have to work because they're getting massive family payments, baby bonuses etc.  


so it's easier for muslims with heaps of kids to get by than people with fewer kids? yeah cause that 3000 dollar baby bonus will cover raising the kid with some extra bucks for a holiday. honestly, this really is a ridiculous argument.

you're saying the reason non-muslims have to work so hard is because muslims have more kids? really? even if in some bizarre world th children of one particular community were able to suck the life blood out of a country and change it's economy- how do you propose that less than 2% of the population is doing this? every non-muslims hardship is put down to this minor portion of our country? pull your head in- seriously!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #16 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:40am
 
So what you are saying is if they are Muslim they have prayer breaks on top of all the other breaks.   Grin


you are such an apologist.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #17 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:48am
 
Quote:
Twice at most, usually once. Also praying takes less than 5 minutes, and I don't know about others, but I always have done it during my lunch break.

Good, that's as it should be. If muslims were having more breaks than non-muslims just so they could pray, then that would be daft, but it seems they're not because they can do them during a normal break.
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #18 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:55am
 
We have a special prayer room for them and thety take longer than 5 mins and they don't do it during their breaks for lunch etc.

Oh and gaybriel they have lots of smoke breaks too.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #19 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:03am
 
Well they shouldn't be getting anymore time off than non-muslims. Period.
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #20 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:56pm
 
Quote:
So what you are saying is if they are Muslim they have prayer breaks on top of all the other breaks.   


you are such an apologist.


yeah yeah blah blah


jordan484 wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:03am:
Well they shouldn't be getting anymore time off than non-muslims. Period.


well I'm sure if 5 or 10 mins more makes you wee your pants that much- you could always insist they get there a bit earlier

is this what keeps you people awake at night?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #21 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 5:56am
 
rude and an apologist....

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #22 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 6:17am
 
Quote:
so it's easier for muslims with heaps of kids to get by than people with fewer kids? yeah cause that 3000 dollar baby bonus will cover raising the kid with some extra bucks for a holiday. honestly, this really is a ridiculous argument.

you're saying the reason non-muslims have to work so hard is because muslims have more kids? really? even if in some bizarre world th children of one particular community were able to suck the life blood out of a country and change it's economy- how do you propose that less than 2% of the population is doing this? every non-muslims hardship is put down to this minor portion of our country? pull your head in- seriously!


Calm down Gaybriel - yes we have non-muslim bludgers as well.  Australia has always had a reputation as the welfare country, but it's been a couple of years since the baby bonus was $3,000 - it's now $5,000.  Then we have family allowance which is at least $150-200 p.f per child but it increases substantially again after 2 children.  We have the $600 annual payment for children under 16.  What do you think your annual income would be if you had 9 or 10 children and you weren't a PAYE employee?

You're looking at minimally - at least $1,000 to $1,200 a week in family payments alone.  Another $6,000 annually if there's 10 kids under 16 and then take into account the parent's unemployment benefits or disability - and you're looking at $80,000 - $90,000 p.a. tax free and with all the government benefits attached.

I can't remember his name - but that bloke who used to speak on behalf of Sheikh Hilaly - he was having his 10th child - probably 12 kids by now and apart from translating for the Sheikh (I don't know whether he was legally paid for that) - he didn't have a job, although he wrote a couple of small religious books.

Non-muslims do it as well - but obviously not on such a grand scale, although there have been a few single women who have almost reached that capacity in kids.

It looks like Grendel is right about you - you are an apologist.  At least Abu is up front and straight about his convictions and not pretending to be someone he isn't.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #23 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 7:00am
 
Mantra,

Quote:
I can't remember his name - but that bloke who used to speak on behalf of Sheikh Hilaly - he was having his 10th child - probably 12 kids by now and apart from translating for the Sheikh (I don't know whether he was legally paid for that) - he didn't have a job, although he wrote a couple of small religious books


That guy is hardly an example of the majority of Muslim families. Yes there are a few who have large families, but not as many as you might think. On average Muslims do have slightly larger families than non-Muslims in Australia, but 10-12 is certainly nowhere near the norm.

I think in Burnie (Tasmania) alone there'd be more single mothers with large (> 7) amounts of kids than all Muslims Australia wide.

Quote:
Non-muslims do it as well - but obviously not on such a grand scale, although there have been a few single women who have almost reached that capacity in kids.


Come on it's on a much grander scale amongst non-Muslims. And also it's much worse, because they're usually single mothers. So it means most of the kids are just ratbags who run amok all over the place. I've lived in streets before that have these kinds of families, and it's just a nightmare.

Quote:
It looks like Grendel is right about you - you are an apologist.


I'd say Gaybriel has just had a lot more exposure to Muslims than most here, that's why she's a lot more accepting and supportive of Islam. Obviously she also has an open mind and didn't approach the Islamic topic with the bias a lot do.

Quote:
At least Abu is up front and straight about his convictions and not pretending to be someone he isn't.


Well, prior to actually embracing Islam, I was also considered an apologist for Islam. How about you just judge her on the merits of what she says, rather than any perceived role you think she fits into?
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #24 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 7:18am
 
Quote:
How about you just judge her on the merits of what she says, rather than any perceived role you think she fits into?


Usually I would judge a person on their merits Abu - but her aggressiveness is a little distracting and obfuscates her "merits".

Quote:
Come on it's on a much grander scale amongst non-Muslims. And also it's much worse, because they're usually single mothers. So it means most of the kids are just ratbags who run amok all over the place. I've lived in streets before that have these kinds of families, and it's just a nightmare.


Yes it's true that many of the kids end up ratbags running amok - but you can't deny that in areas like Lakemba and Punchbowl there aren't streets full of idle working age men and many of them would have large families.  But seeing as there are no statistics on who's producing the most children - single mothers or Muslims - we'll have to assume they're propagating in equal amounts.




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #25 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 7:22am
 
Gaybriel wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:56pm:
Quote:
So what you are saying is if they are Muslim they have prayer breaks on top of all the other breaks.  


you are such an apologist.


yeah yeah blah blah


jordan484 wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:03am:
Well they shouldn't be getting anymore time off than non-muslims. Period.


well I'm sure if 5 or 10 mins more makes you wee your pants that much- you could always insist they get there a bit earlier

is this what keeps you people awake at night?


I am not kept awake at night.

Why do you think it's acceptable for members of one religion to have more breaks (even short ones, they all add up) than everyone else? If muslims were made to have less breaks you'd be all up in arms. I don't discriminate, everyone should be working the same hours, same breaks, you discriminate against non-muslims.
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #26 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 8:05am
 
You expect more from an apologist jordan?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47067
At my desk.
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #27 - Nov 13th, 2008 at 9:34am
 
Quote:
On average Muslims do have slightly larger families than non-Muslims in Australia


By how much?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #28 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 11:52pm
 
mantra wrote on Nov 13th, 2008 at 6:17am:
Calm down Gaybriel - yes we have non-muslim bludgers as well.  Australia has always had a reputation as the welfare country, but it's been a couple of years since the baby bonus was $3,000 - it's now $5,000.  Then we have family allowance which is at least $150-200 p.f per child but it increases substantially again after 2 children.  We have the $600 annual payment for children under 16.  What do you think your annual income would be if you had 9 or 10 children and you weren't a PAYE employee?


please excuse my facetitious tone- my frustration got the better of me.

the point I was trying to make is that govt pay outs hardly totally off set the expense of raising a child. and to suggest that a community that comprises 2% of the population could have such a dramatic impact on Australia is not logical.

even if these payments did offset the expense of a child- they would hardly be significant enough to throw the rest of the economy out of whack.

large families have never been discouraged in Australia. Our population has been encouraged to grow from the word go- and I see this line of argument as merely an excuse for people to vent their frustrations about their lives, whilst using whatever immigrant group happens to be in the spotlight as a scapegoat.

these comments and arguments are not new- they have been around for a long time, and when you see the pattern- it's hard to ignore what's motivating such repititious behaviour, particularly when the allegations against immigrants have time and time again proven to be false

Quote:
It looks like Grendel is right about you - you are an apologist.  At least Abu is up front and straight about his convictions and not pretending to be someone he isn't.



if that is your opinion you are certainly entitled to it. but I assure you I am straight up about what I believe.

but I am also straight up about the fact that I don't have all the answers. I have certain beliefs and understandings yes, certain morals I see as uncompromisable- if you think I "umm and aahhh" about things- it is not because I am avoiding anything or dodging around a topic- it may just be because I am learning as I speak to people, I am forming my opinion in dialogue with others, to benefit from their knowledge as well as my own.

I have learnt that to doggedly argue a point without any willingness to hear the other person is arrogance and pride- and I try not to give into those things (not always successfully)

if you feel this doesn't make me honest then so be it- but really I am just trying to understand things comprehensively and to the best of my ability

apologies again for my tone earlier to everyone but specifically to grendel to whom it was directed. I should have controlled my temper.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: Aboo and Rupert wrong and ignorant...
Reply #29 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 11:55pm
 
jordan484 wrote on Nov 13th, 2008 at 7:22am:
Gaybriel wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 10:56pm:
Quote:
So what you are saying is if they are Muslim they have prayer breaks on top of all the other breaks.  


you are such an apologist.


yeah yeah blah blah


jordan484 wrote on Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:03am:
Well they shouldn't be getting anymore time off than non-muslims. Period.


well I'm sure if 5 or 10 mins more makes you wee your pants that much- you could always insist they get there a bit earlier

is this what keeps you people awake at night?


I am not kept awake at night.

Why do you think it's acceptable for members of one religion to have more breaks (even short ones, they all add up) than everyone else? If muslims were made to have less breaks you'd be all up in arms. I don't discriminate, everyone should be working the same hours, same breaks, you discriminate against non-muslims.


I don't. like I said, if it is that much of a concern (which for many people it wouldn't be) it could always be a prerequisite that those who take prayer breaks make up for this time taken out.

alternatively, the other employees could be given the opportunity to take extra breaks.

either way- the time is minimal and will have little impact
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print