It is very sad, the death of those children and heartbreaking for the parents. Children really are the only innocents.

However, they were not murdered unless you can show intent. It is counterproductive. I doubt that you can. As Muslim's make no claim to target children nor do anyone else as far as I know.

To do this with intent would be both evil and stupid. Not disputing that there may have been better and more productive options. But that is 20/20 hindsight at work.

Do you diminish the target from all responsibility as it is a known tactic for such people to imbed themselves close to publically sensitive areas. Makes them a less attractive target and if something does (has) gone astray there is great political mileage to made.

jordan484 wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:06pm:


Quote:



They don't look like children to me. Do anybody else think that they are innocent children?

locutius wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:11pm:



The WTC building had military offices as well as CIA offices, does this logic also aply to S11.

Or the Mariot hotel in Kenya which was known to be used as intelligence headquarters for western govt's.

There are Aust. Army barracks on Stkilda Road in the city. Now using your logic, if an enemy were to use WMD to bomb these barracks, destroying everything around it, and killing scores of innocent civilians, do you (using your own very words) , "Do you diminish the target from all responsibility as it is a known tactic for such people to imbed themselves close to publically sensitive areas.

Or does your 'responsibility' of the target only apply when the target is muslim or islamic.

So when western innocents are killed by muslim armed organisations, its the muslims fault, when muslim innocents are killed by western military organisations...once again, its muslims fault.

Gee...you've got quite a system going their locuitus......

A villager said eight known militants, who were sleeping in the courtyard when the missiles exploded, were all killed.

It is not known whether Haqqani was in the building when the missiles hit. Along with his son, Sirajuddin, Haqqani runs an extremist network which, according to British officials, has direct links with al-Qaeda's core leadership.

US in new missile attack on Pakistan territory

America has ignored Pakistan's protests and launched another cross-border strike into the Tribal Areas when unmanned drones fired three missiles at a religious college, killing at least seven people.

By Nell Raven in Islamabad and David Blair, Diplomatic Editor
Last Updated: 7:11AM BST 24 Oct 2008

Tribesmen hold pieces of a missile at the site of a cross-border US missile attack on the outskirts of Miranshah in Pakistan's Tribal Areas which killed at least seven people

Attacks of this kind, which have become almost weekly occurrences, risk stirring popular unrest inside Pakistan.

The US once observed the sensitivities of its ally by leaving the security of the Tribal Areas to Pakistani forces.

This policy has been abandoned, betraying how little confidence America has in Pakistan's ability to secure its side of the frontier with Afghanistan.

Infuriated by repeated US raids on its territory, Pakistan's parliament has passed a resolution urging President Asif Ali Zardari to resist "any incursions and invasions of the homeland".

The latest missile strike targeted a madrassa (religious school) in North Waziristan, one of seven Tribal Areas lining Pakistan's north-west frontier.

Western officials believe these lawless enclaves, which are controlled by local chiefs, serve as havens and supply bases for Taliban insurgents operating inside Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda's core leadership, possibly including Osama bin Laden, may also have found refuge in the Tribal Areas.

Yesterday's attack may have been an attempt to kill Jalaluddin Haqqani, a veteran jihadist blamed for much of the violence in Afghanistan.

Three missiles struck the religious school, which was founded by Haqqani, leaving between seven and 11 people dead.

A villager said eight known militants, who were sleeping in the courtyard when the missiles exploded, were all killed.

A Pakistani official said the strike took place at 2.25am and the madrassa, near the town of Miranshah, was used as a guesthouse for "international and local students''.

He added that a known associate of Haqqani, Mullah Mansoor, ran the madrassa.

It is not known whether Haqqani was in the building when the missiles hit. Along with his son, Sirajuddin, Haqqani runs an extremist network which, according to British officials, has direct links with al-Qaeda's core leadership.

This appears to have been America's second attempt to kill Haqqani, who was a leading "Mujahideen" commander fighting the Russian invasion of Afghanistan throughout the 1980s.

A missile strike on Sept 8 on a house owned by Haqqani killed 23 people, including members of his extended family.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:43pm:


Didn't you read my post, Abu? I agreed with you. I think it's terrible news. I just think it's terrible news for different reasons, that's all.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you think it's such a tragedy that kids are killed. Kids grow up to be adults, you know. Some kids grow up to be very bad people. Those kids will most likely grow up to be bad people. Luckily, they will never grow up to be as bad as you, Abu. You've already got that title in the bag.

Lestat wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:57pm:


No you are correct. More to the point, I criticised your willingness to follow a discriminatory policy of etiquitte and doctrine that disallows criticism of your fellow Muslims. I pointed out that I appreciated the confession because it then allowed me to weigh the value of the pro muslim/anti western dialogue.

Lestat wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:57pm:


You're quite right in suggesting that the joy expressed in the killing of children is appalling. I was at the time writting a rather longwinded reply to something Gaybriel set as a topic. Although it seems like I am on the site all day, I merely leave it open in a tab (at work) and check when I can, sometimes I take many hours before a reply is finished. By the time I got to that subject, Abu had already started another topic complaining about such comments. In terms of criticism, I have shown a reasonable level of criticism to many different topics.

Lestat wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:57pm:


And correctly so. maybe you need to familiarise yourself with subjects such as guerrilla warfare and counter-insurgency. I think I laid some blame with that individual in particular. But the practice is common enough for it to be recognised as a political tactic.

Lestat wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:57pm:


The point is that you have not behaved in that way. We are talking about you posters now, not Islam/West. Hypocrite is an easy word to throw around. All I can say is that I try not to be, and I don't accept that you have shown me to be one here. Abu has has 5 times as many posts on this forum as myself but I believe you will find many more post of mine showing balanced criticism.

For instance a post about a western soldier that committed war crimes and was being processed through the court system with the likelyhood that he would be executed. Seems most posters here would probably volenteered to pull the lever on this joker. It was suggested that this person represented us and that we must be proud of his handywork. Strangely enough, the fact that he was being tried as a murderer BY OUR SYSTEM was constantly treated as an invisible element of the story.

I don't believe I have bashed Islam. Asked for accountability definitely. Displayed contempt for the concept of Muslim Etiquitte as a piece of discriminatory doctrine, absolutely. Islamophobe? No. That would be an irrational fear. Like my fear of heights. I have a rational wariness of Islam's political goals, in the same way that free thinkers were wary of the christian church centuries ago. I respect your right to a faith, I just don't think it makes you special.

DILLIGAF wrote on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 12:33pm:


Or vice versa.