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Islamic etiquette (Read 40655 times)
Grendel
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #90 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:02am
 
ROTFLMAO

WHY THANK YOU ABOO TOR PROVING MY POINT ABOUT MULTICULTI TOLERANCE....

Good to see that our cultures are so compatible.   Cheesy
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freediver
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #91 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:14am
 
Apparently some causes are worth dying for and others are worth killing for.

So destroying the twin towers was worth the death of a few hundred thousand innocent Muslims? Is that what you think?

Don’t presume that they’re loonies because they are part of a paramilitary org.

That's not why I think they are loonies.

Then you’ll be fighting for a very long time.

Not necessarily. There is every chance the west will pull out and leave them to kill each other. According to Abu, it's pretty easy to set up a puppet government to do all the killing for you. It might even be possible to set up a democracy to do it for you, which is pretty ironic.

Why would Australians not want to continue the fight to reclaim the territory?

Sure, regaining the territory might be worth fighting for. But if it just meant we would loose more territory and a few hundred thousand more fellow Australians would die in the process, then it would be time to cut our losses. Maybe that's the problem, Muslims just cannot accept the reality of their situation, nor see alternative paths to their goal.

Do the Muslims think they can win a showdown with the west? They think keeping up in a war for which the west is not even willing to sacrifice it's lifestyle is some great victory?

What if most Australians wanted to continue a guerrilla war against Indonesia and Indonesians?

Are you saying that the majority of Muslims support terrorists? It's not that they are impotent against them, they actually support them? Are those Muslims lying who say that the majority of their co-religionists oppose terrorism?

The reason that conflicts come to a halt in the west, even in quagmires like Northern Ireland, is because the majority of westerners do not support terrorism.

I would suggest that if part of the Australian mainland was annexed by a foreign power, causing the maiming and deaths of hundreds or thousands of Australians in Cairns and further north, most Australians would not be in the mood for Gandhi-isms.

Ghandi did not promote pacifism as a response to that sort of agression. He was a realist. He promoted pacifism because it might work against the British. He knew that it was the agressor, not the oppressed, who dictate the level of violence in a conflict. He understood his enemy. The muslims appear to have no understanding at all of their 'enemy'.

Like I said, we would fight back, and throw everything we had at them. But if we lost the war, we would not let extremists start a new one we do not want every few years. European countries have been annexing bits of each other since the first chief decided to draw a boundary on a map. But you won't find many Europeans advocating a return to the first boundaries they can trace back to.

Maybe that's the problem. Muslims cannot tell the difference between an organised army that has a chance of winning and a bunch of loonies who will only bring misery to their fellow countrymen. All that matters is that you fight the holy war.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:19am by freediver »  

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abu_rashid
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #92 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:18am
 

Quote:
I would suggest that if part of the Australian mainland was annexed by a foreign power, causing the maiming and deaths of hundreds or thousands of Australians in Cairns and further north, most Australians would not be in the mood for Gandhi-isms.


Nice one helian, that's one of the most common advices offered to Muslims "Look at Gandhi, go resist Israeli gunships with hunger strikes!!". Easy to say when they're not the target of the gunships.
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #93 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:23am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:18am:
Quote:
I would suggest that if part of the Australian mainland was annexed by a foreign power, causing the maiming and deaths of hundreds or thousands of Australians in Cairns and further north, most Australians would not be in the mood for Gandhi-isms.


Nice one helian, that's one of the most common advices offered to Muslims "Look at Gandhi, go resist Israeli gunships with hunger strikes!!". Easy to say when they're not the target of the gunships.


Again you misunderstand your enemy Abu. Obviously a hunger strike would not work if your fellow Muslims kept blowing up busses. However, if you could reign in your loonies, a hunger strike would end Israeli agression faster than any campaign of killing innocent civilians. You even seem to realise that Israel depends on the west for support, but you don't seem to realise how many in the west are not exactly fond of Israel and would quickly put an end to Isreali agression against pacifists.

Of course, that would not help you wipe Israel off the map, which is the real reason why it is not an option for Muslims.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #94 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:40am
 

Quote:
You even seem to realise that Israel depends on the west for support, but you don't seem to realise how many in the west are not exactly fond of Israel and would quickly put an end to Isreali agression against pacifists.


You misunderstand your fellow Westerners support for Israel. Go to youtube and search for Obama's speech to AIPAC, you might get a better idea of how US support for Israel works..

Quote:
Of course, that would not help you wipe Israel off the map, which is the real reason why it is not an option for Muslims.


True, Gandhi was struggling for the withdrawal of a foreign occupier, who lived abroad. The Palestinians are struggling for a foreign occupier who's setup camp in their land. The one who lived abroad can just bring his men home, the one who's setup camp cannot, he calls your home home. So it's a different situation, surely you can appreciate that.
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #95 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:43am
 
Quote:
You misunderstand your fellow Westerners support for Israel. Go to youtube and search for Obama's speech to AIPAC, you might get a better idea of how US support for Israel works..


You are ignoring the context. If the context was Israeli agression against pacifists, that would change everything overnight.

Quote:
True, Gandhi was struggling for the withdrawal of a foreign occupier, who lived abroad. The Palestinians are struggling for a foreign occupier who's setup camp in their land. The one who lived abroad can just bring his men home, the one who's setup camp cannot, he calls your home home. So it's a different situation, surely you can appreciate that.


You mean like in Northern Ireland?
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #96 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:47am
 
We've been over the Palestine thing aboo and you admitted you lied, were wrong incorrect...  ok
So why keep perpetrating the same crap.
The Mandate palestine was created by the Brits.
It is now mostly Jordan.
there were no Palestinians b4 then.
The tribes that inhabited the area from way back were not only Muslims.
BTW Muslims are a much more recent arrival.
Hence the Jews/hebrews whatever you want to call them have as much right to be there.

Now this is gonna hurt...  fd...  I back almost everything you say on these Islamic topics Smiley Shocked Cool
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #97 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:51am
 

Quote:
You are ignoring the context. If the context was Israeli agression against pacifists, that would change everything overnight.


I really don't think it would. you're a little too idealistic freediver, and just don't understand the way this relationship works. Like for instance when Israel bulldozed (and murdered) an American peace activist, there were no repercusions whatsoever, and that's one of their own!! It was brushed aside in the media and most actually criticised the girl and claimed it was her own fault anyway... Have you seen "Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land"? If not, I sincerely advise you take a look at it. Besides, the Palestinians resisted peacefully for most of the early part of this invasion, that's why they ended up spread all over the middle east. There was no busses bloown up until the 1980's after decades upon decades of atrocities against civilians that went completely unanswered. Your theory failed.

Also you need to understand, Gandhi was working for, and attained something the West wanted anyway. The British wanted to get rid of their colonies, they just wnated to ensure they were going to still have a lot of influence in them after they did, and they do... indicating Gandhi didn't really win a lot anyway. Same with most Muslim lands who thought they won their 'independance' it was a joke.
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #98 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:53am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2008 at 11:14am:
… as above…

Symptoms of our glorious innocence.

As the ‘great’ Churchill suggested (although he was probably drunk at the time) referring to Curtin’s plea for Australian troops to be returned to fight the Japanese, that Australians needed to toughen up and learn something about the full impact of war, including invasion and the sudden catastrophic destruction of society. He thought us too ignorant of the realities of conflict. Europeans in Europe have witnessed countless land grabs and territorial wars and practically every nation on the continent has had their days of hegemony. They’re used to fighting over and losing and gaining territory… we in Australia are not.

I would bet that an Australian Unionist militia would quickly be established, were the Australian government to capitulate.

I would bet that an Australian Unionist militia would engender the sympathies of many Australians (perhaps most) at least for the first 10 to 20 years.

And I would bet that a Unionist militia would be capable of inflicting, and would without much hesitation inflict, atrocities for the greater good of making Australia whole again.

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abu_rashid
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #99 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:03pm
 
Grendel,

Quote:
We've been over the Palestine thing aboo and you admitted you lied, were wrong incorrect...  ok


Umm, no actually I just let you claim another hollow victory, because you obviously didn't understand the basic concepts involved. ie. that there was no Arab nationalities prior to the arrival of the British, Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian whatever.

Quote:
The Mandate palestine was created by the Brits.
It is now mostly Jordan.


The British mandate consisted of both Palestine and Transjordan, that land which was west of the jordan and that which was east of it, respectively, please go and do some research.

Quote:
there were no Palestinians b4 then


There were people living there. That's akin to dividing Australia up into littlle countries, the one south of the Murray being known as Yarraland, and claiming there never was any Yarralanders all throughout history, what a nonsensical argument. Just like there are Victorians, there were always people who lived in the Sanjack of al-Quds (ie. the Ottoman name of the province that became known as Palestine, under British mandate and today as Israel)

Quote:
The tribes that inhabited the area from way back were not only Muslims.


Not only, but largely.

Quote:
BTW Muslims are a much more recent arrival.


They are? When did they arrive? My history shows me Muslims arrived about 1300 years ago... Guess it depends on what you mean by recent.

Quote:
Hence the Jews/hebrews whatever you want to call them have as much right to be there.


The last Ottoman census, taken in the late 1890's show the Jews to be no more than 2% of the population. Do 2% of the population of a country have a right to expel the majority and turn it into their own racially based state?

Funny, because in our other discussions where the tables are turned, you don't think the 2% minorities have any right to even have their own culture, let alone to expel anyone who doesn't belong to it. You know Muslims are about 2% of Australia's population... Do we have the same rights to do in Australia what you seem to think the Jews had to do in Palestine?
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:12pm by abu_rashid »  
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #100 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:05pm
 
So India is a puppet of the UK as well as the middle east? The British actually wanted to move out, but couldn't figure out how until Ghandi came along and showed them the way?
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #101 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:06pm
 
It would depend on how the new bosses behaved, surely?

If they banned alcohol in queensland or the northern territory, well then they would be like the quadriplegic who fell off the boat. Well and Truly.

Some things ARE worth fighting for. Grin
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #102 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:09pm
 
oh dear...  where is 75% of the mandate of palestine?

that's right in Jordan.

Is Jordan an arabic Muslim state?
Are "palestinians" arabic Muslims?

rotflmao..

Now when did the Muslim religion start?
uh huh..

and how long has the jewish religion been in existence...  how many thousands of years?
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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #103 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:05pm:
So India is a puppet of the UK as well as the middle east? The British actually wanted to move out, but couldn't figure out how until Ghandi came along and showed them the way?

It was cut and run. Churchill despised Gandhi and were it not for the fact that India was capable and prepared to blast a crippled Britain off the sub continent, he would no more have seen the Gandhian light than give up drinking.

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #104 - Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:13pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Oct 20th, 2008 at 12:06pm:
Some things ARE worth fighting for. Grin


And would be fought for.
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