Australian Politics Forum - Islamic etiquette

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #15 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 5:25pm abu - "turn the other cheek" or "two wrongs do not make a right."
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jordan484

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #16 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 7:14pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 4:26pm:

Quote:

Is it Islamic etiquette to pick on every single poster you may not agree with?

This coming from the person who's never engaged in a single word of sincere dialogue with a Muslim. Every single one of your posts to or about a Muslim or Islam is riddled with hostility, snide remarks, abuse and general insincerity.

You have some hide asking a Muslim to adhere to any kind of etiquette when dealing with you. You deserve none!

This coming from someone who started dialogue with me calling me a liar. I have engaged plenty of sincere dialogue which I received abuse back from lestat or sarcasm back from you. Every single post of yours is riddled with bias and bigotry, which you yourself recently have admitted to, you have posted plenty of snide remarks yourself, don't you dare deny that, and are extremely hostile towards anything western.

You have some hide posting this sort of response. You are a bigot, a terrorist sympathiser and excuser of poor and hostile behaviour. You deserve no respect, no allowances, NOTHING! You repulse me. You are the enemy and I will fight against people like you until my dying day.

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #17 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 8:02pm

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Every single post of yours is riddled with bias and bigotry, which you yourself recently have admitted

Yes, i can admit I am biased towards Islam, and can be a little hostile in discussions, usually not without good reason though, as my beliefs are probably under attack. But sometimes you might see me switch out of hostile mode and engage in a genuine dialogue of understanding with other forummers here, or even just approach a discussion at the beginning with some optimism.... I've personally never seen this from you regarding Islam. Any thread about Islam, you are circling around it like a hungry little 'gull waiting to take a snap at it. As Lestat has noted you just follow me around from thread to thread in an unhealthy obesession, making any snide remark you can to my posts. You are constantly hostile to Islam, and are just bursting to use any opportunity to attack it. You're devoid of any optimistic sentiment when it comes to Islam, you just consider every thread on this forum as a new avenue by which to lunge at Islam or Muslims. You are truly consumed (or as Lestat said, obsessed) by your hatred.

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #18 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:59am Quote: You are truly consumed (or obsessed) by your hatred. Like I said last night before you went on your little deleting and locking mission, so are you.
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freediver

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #19 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 5:53pm

my statement "and in fact this goes for all cases of accusations, innocent until proven guilty" means that all people are to be given the benefit of the doubt in Islamic law, there's no assumption of guilt, there's assumption of innocence. But as usual, you want to twist and turn everything until you think you found something wrong... It's really a rather tiring dialogue.

So why don't you extend this to non-muslims?

"Whosoever conceals the faults of a Muslim, Allah will conceal his faults in this world and the Hereafter. Allah will aid a servant (of His) so long as the servant aids his brother."

Is this why Islam has no pedophile clerics?

Just to make it quite clear, I don't have an interpretation. Any interpretation I relay to you is that of the classical Islamic scholars, or the companions of Muhammad (pbuh).

You put it into your own words. You cannot do that without conveying your own understanding of them. Otherwise you would respond only with quotes.

In effect you're trying to say that Sharon for instance is not responsible for the crimes he committed against the Muslims, or that the USA or the USSR were not responsible for their invasions of Afghanistan and countless other Muslim lands.

How so?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #20 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:00pm

Quote:

So why don't you extend this to non-muslims?

That was what I said to begin with, it is. I didn't especially mention non-Muslims (do I need to??), but my original statement applies to all people. The assumption s towards innocence in the Islamic legal system, not guilt.

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Is this why Islam has no pedophile clerics?

Grow up FD, really.

Quote:

You put it into your own words. You cannot do that without conveying your own understanding of them. Otherwise you would respond only with quotes.

Yes I paraphrased what I've read. But the concepts and the interpretative component do not come from me.

Quote:

Quote:

In effect you're trying to say that Sharon for instance is not responsible for the crimes he committed against the Muslims, or that the USA or the USSR were not responsible for their invasions of Afghanistan and countless other Muslim lands.

How so?

Because everytime a Muslim mentions that someone committed a crime against them, or is doing something oppressive to them, you jump in and claim they're just passing the blame onto others. This clearly indicates that you don't understand the difference between accepting responsibility for our own weakness and identifying the perpetrators of crimes against us.

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Soren

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #21 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:19pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:00pm:

[quote]
This clearly indicates that you don't understand the difference between accepting responsibility for our own weakness and identifying the perpetrators of crimes against us.

Very well, give us the main aspects of muslim weakness and the crimes you do recognise and accept as muslim responsibility. Just a couple of pointers, please .

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #22 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:20pm

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Very well, give us the main aspects of muslim weakness

The main weakness Muslims succumbed to was nationalism. Although it is forbidden in Islam, some Muslims around the time of WWI (the so called 'hashemite rebellion') rejected their Islamic identity and instead adopted an 'arab identity' and thereby permitted themselves to be used as implements of disunity and betrayal against their own government for the benefit of the enemies of Islam. Luckily today it is faded into the distant past, and most Muslims are waking up and realising that nationalism is nothing but a disease of the heart.

Quote:

and the crimes you do recognise and accept as muslim responsibility

Actually it was about crimes committed AGAINST Muslims, not by Muslims. Are you actually able to mange your way through an entire post without trying to heap something onto Islam? Must you have an agenda in everything you post?

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freediver

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #23 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:27pm

It was a serious question Abu. Churches have a serious problem with pedophiles being covered up. The reason is that they tend to cover up for each other. The church as an institution is trying to tear down that culture of secrecy. But in Islam, hiding the faults of a fellow Muslims is your duty. It's like it is a law designed to benefit criminals.

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Lestat

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #24 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:35pm

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:27pm:

It was a serious question Abu. Churches have a serious problem with pedophiles being covered up. The reason is that they tend to cover up for each other. The church as an institution is trying to tear down that culture of secrecy. But in Islam, hiding the faults of a fellow Muslims is your duty. It's like it is a law designed to benefit criminals.

“Whosoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest of faith.”

Hadith of the Prophet (SAW).

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #25 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:37pm Can you explain what that means?
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Lestat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1403	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #26 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:40pm Do you really need me too. I would of thought it was pretty much self-explanatory. Or are you just playing games?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #27 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:46pm What does this bit mean? and that is the weakest of faith
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Islamic etiquette Reply #28 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:49pm My take on that is - If you see something that's wrong, do something about it. If you can't physically do something, complain about it until it gets fixed. If you can't complain about it, at least know that it's wrong, but come on guys, get real! Just knowing that it's wrong is a bit lame. Was I close?
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Soren

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Re: Islamic etiquette
Reply #29 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:50pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:20pm:

Quote:

Very well, give us the main aspects of muslim weakness

The main weakness Muslims succumbed to was nationalism. Although it is forbidden in Islam, some Muslims around the time of WWI (the so called 'hashemite rebellion') rejected their Islamic identity and instead adopted an 'arab identity' and thereby permitted themselves to be used as implements of disunity and betrayal against their own government for the benefit of the enemies of Islam. Luckily today it is faded into the distant past, and most Muslims are waking up and realising that nationalism is nothing but a disease of the heart.

Quote:

and the crimes you do recognise and accept as muslim responsibility

Actually it was about crimes committed AGAINST Muslims, not by Muslims. Are you actually able to mange your way through an entire post without trying to heap something onto Islam? Must you have an agenda in everything you post?

Th west has weaknesses and has committed crimes. Why sniff an agenda if I ask what the weaknesses and crimes of Islam are? Does it only have weaknesses and has not commited crimes? Only non-muslims, especially western / Zionists commit crimes?

All I am 'heaping' on Islam is a couple of questions that Islam (you) 'heaped' on the west in the form of statements, not even questions.
Seeking balance is an agenda now?/

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