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What is the "Good News" of the koran ? (Read 6678 times)
Sprintcyclist
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What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:22pm
 

What is the good news of it ?
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abu_rashid
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #1 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 6:07am
 
2:25 And convey good news to those who believe and do good deeds, that they shall have gardens in which rivers flow; whenever they shall be given a portion of the fruit thereof, they shall say: This is what was given to us before; and they shall be given the like of it, and they shall have pure mates in them, and in them, they shall abide.

2:97 Say: Whoever is the enemy of Gabriel for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers.

2:119 Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and as a warner, and you shall not be called upon to answer for the companions of the flaming fire.

2:155 And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient,

2:213 (All) people are a single nation; so Allah raised prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He revealed with them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people in that in which they differed; and none but the very people who were given it differed about it after clear arguments had come to them, revolting among themselves; so Allah has guided by His will those who believe to the truth about which they differed and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right path.

There's plenty more, I'll leave you with those few though.

Btw, the word for Good news is Bashira  in the Qur'an, and in the Bible Basara, both deriving from the same original Semitic root, and both meaning 'that news or glad tidings which make the face glow with happiness'.
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #2 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 8:39am
 
If 'That' is good news, it certainly is illustrative of why so many blueys can twist such [mod: read the guidelines please or rack off] into whatever meaning they wish.

"so allah has guided by his will, those who believe, to the truth, about which they differed, and allah guides whom he pleases, to the right path."

(I have inserted some punctuation, perhaps it will help?)

The quoted statement is a minefield of incosistency,
allah guided =led, showed?, those who believe=theists in general?, to the truth=the koran?,about which they differed=not the koran?, and allah guides WHOM HE PLEASES=  I have no idea what they mean with this bit, maybe some are chosen to be muslims, and some are chosen to be non-muslims?, the right path=Islam?


Well that hardly sounds much like good news to me, it basically says that their capricious deity picks people at random to be saved or condemned, sounds about as sensible as any other religious talk.
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« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:06am by abu_rashid »  

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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #3 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:13am
 
I was hoping you would try and explain what 'you' think these verses mean, abu.
I merely used the word 'drivel', to convey the meaning that they make little, to no, sense to me, and was therefore wxpecting you to convince me that they are not, rather than just delete the word, it really is not an offensive word.
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #4 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:20am
 
Firstly mozza, you've been warned enough times, next time will be an instant ban. In this forum, you speak about religions with respect. Doesn't mean you have to praise them, but using terms like you did to refer to revealed texts is not on. You've been warned amply in the past, and this is the last time. If you have something positive to contribute or are sincerely interested in discussing Islamic issues, I've got no probelm having you here, but you just don't seem to be sincere in your questions, you just want to use it as a platform to knock Islam, that is not tolerated.

Quote:
to the truth=the koran?,about which they differed=not the koran?,


Those who differed are past nations. The opening of that verse mentions that mankind was one community/nation referring to in the time of Adam (pbuh) and they remained on the religion of truth (al-Islam) until the time of Noah (pbuh) when they began to differ.

Your supposition that it refers to the Qur'an probably comes from your belief that Islam was just the religion propagated by Muhammad (pbuh). We do not believe that. We believe it was the religion propagated by all prophets from the time of Adam (pbuh) until the time of Muhammad (pbuh), and that the religion of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (pbut) was only Islam (submission to God's commands). During the times of those prophets their peoples differed. Even though they were reading from the same scriptures.

Quote:
I have no idea what they mean with this bit, maybe some are chosen to be muslims, and some are chosen to be non-muslims?


Of course all guidance and misguidance is by the will of Allah.
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« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:27am by abu_rashid »  
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #5 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:32am
 
The misguidance as allah's will is the sticking point abu, that is the crux of the issue, that is what I always struggle to 'get'.

How is misguidance, or trickery, allah's will?

Why would he choose to enlighten some with his message, and not all?

Also of concern, is how a deity cannot seem to put forward a concise and universally understandable message.
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:37am
 
I should add, that my understanding of a great positive of Islamic behaviour was their traditional hospitality toward strangers, I think if you posted some bits about loving your neighbour, and helping strangers etc., which I assume is in the koran, then that would be more acceptable as something good, than a verse which implies eternal damnation for those who are not like minded.
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #7 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:39am
 
Abu - the verses you quoted were difficult to understand.  Perhaps if you had learnt them from an early age it would be easier to decipher them.  They are not "beautiful" quotes in comparison to some passages from the bible and I'm not being disrespectful.  Just curious.

Mozzaok's comments were legitimate.   What did he say that was so disrespectful?
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #8 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:44am
 
So abu, you may have to ban everyone from your little forum. That will just make people post in another forum or on the main boards. I think it's a grand idea, so why not cut the bull and ban everyone now, we can all take it outside this Islam "forum" and get on with discussing issues and topics without being censored and overly moderated. You get what you want.....a sterile, highly regulated, biased Islam love-in and we get what we want, free speech, discussion, debate and questioning. What are you waiting for?
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #9 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:45am
 
Quote:
What did he say that was so disrespectful?

Drivel?
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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #10 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:52am
 

Quote:
What did he say that was so disrespectful?

Drivel?


This is an Australian colloquialism:

Colloquial language is considered to be characteristic of or only appropriate for ordinary, familiar or informal conversation rather than formal speech or writing.

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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #11 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:56am
 
Yes, that was what he deleted, but rather than getting too far off topic worrying about it, I would rather see the muslim posters putting up some verses that muslims valure from the koran, that we can all agree are good news.

I don't respect the bible, but I respect very many of the wonderful messages it contains, I think that the koran would also have many such messages that I have never heard, and to see those sorts of things posted, would at least give us a sense of balance in how we look at their teachings.

I think the radicals bring too much attention onto the negatives, and the positives get forgotten, meanwhile the in betweens start defending the radicals, even if they don't really agree, because they want to maintain respect for their book, no matter how badly the extremists pervert it's message.

Unless it is very different to the bible, which has heaps of offensive stuff in it, but still conveys an overall picture of hope and decency, then I think a little more focus on the hope and decency bits would be a good thing.

I think this is why sprint may have started this thread, as an opportunity to display some good muslim stuff, which is not about "ours is better than yours".
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #12 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:25am
 
mozzaok - yes, that was why I asked the query

Not for you to be censored and threatened.
What drivel nonsense
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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #13 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:31am
 
Quote:
The misguidance as allah's will is the sticking point abu, that is the crux of the issue, that is what I always struggle to 'get'.


What is there to get about it? He guides whom he wills and misguides whom he wills, but he misguides none except those who themselves go astray and reject good guidance.

2:26 By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path)

Quote:
Also of concern, is how a deity cannot seem to put forward a concise and universally understandable message.


It's perhaps the most universally understood message on the planet. Muslims come from the most diverse backgrounds. You don't want to understand it, and instead seek to mock it before even reading it.

Quote:
I should add, that my understanding of a great positive of Islamic behaviour was their traditional hospitality toward strangers, I think if you posted some bits about loving your neighbour, and helping strangers etc


He asked about good news, i posted the first few passages that refer to good news. I didn't even actually read them to sort their content.

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Re: What is the "Good News" of the koran ?
Reply #14 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:49am
 
Quote:
Abu - the verses you quoted were difficult to understand.


If you want to understand them, then you'd be best to read them in context. When you read a single line of any text, you'd not really get a good grasp of what it is trying to say.

Quote:
They are not "beautiful" quotes in comparison to some passages from the bible and I'm not being disrespectful.


They're not hand picked to be so either. They were just the first few quotes I came across, with the word for 'good news' in them, which was what sprint asked for. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but since I have memorised these verses by heart (not specifically, but I have just memorised this chapter they are in) I understand them within the context of the verses that precede them and follow them up. The overall message is where the beauty can be found, not an out of context verse.

Also since they're translated into another language, most of the beauty and eloquence will be lost. If you like I can post an mp3 of them being recited, so you can hear the beauty, you might not understand it, but listening to thee sound of it is still something beautiful in itself.

btw, I didn't take your comments as disrespectful in the slightest.

Quote:
Mozzaok's comments were legitimate.   What did he say that was so disrespectful?


He referred to the Qur'an as drivel.
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