Australian Politics Forum - No wonder islamics are militant

abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: No wonder islamics are militant Reply #105 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:50pm Alexander the Great
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: No wonder islamics are militant Reply #106 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:00pm amazing how the west flourished, while the muslims faded.
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Soren

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #107 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:18pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:07pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 9:44pm:

The word barbarian comes from either the hairiness of the Persians (barba, beard - hence barber) or from their babbling, to Greek ears incomprehensible 'blah blah' language.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks Soren for the laugh. Barba..beared,

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

From their babbling.... Grin

HAHAHAHA.aahh....so funny. Thanks mate...you've just made my night. I haven't read anything so funny in years.

Grin

Anyway...for your information...the term barbarian actually comes from Latin...not Greek. But please..don't stop, I haven't laughed like this for ages.

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon: Search Results

1 barbara mfn. (also written %{varvara}) stammering (see %{-tA}) ; curly Ka1t2h. ; m. (pl.) the non-A1ryans , barbarians MBh. R. &c. ; the country of the barbarians W. ; a low fellow , blockhead , fool , loon (used mostly in the voc.) Hit. ; (only L.) curly hair ;
Clerodendrum Siphonantus ; Cleome Pentaphylla ; a partic. fragrant plant ; Unguis Odoratus ; a kind of worm ; two kinds of fish ; the noise of weapons ; a kind of dance ; (%{A}) f. a kind of fly L. ; a species of Ocimum L. ; a kind of vegetable L. ; a partic. flower L. ; N. of a river VP. ; (%{I}) f. see below ; n. vermilion L. ; gum-myrrh L. ; yellow sandal-wood L. ; = %{barbarI} f. and %{-rIka} n.
2 bArbara mfn. born in the country of the barbarians g. %{takSazIlA7di}.

Lestat, you are such a comfortingly dim barbarian, I do not have the heart to insult you further. Your are afflicted sufficiently already.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #108 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:27pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:28pm:

Actually...I suggest you look further back into the 'etymology of the word'...as Abu mentioned..the term also existed in indo languages.

However, it was passed to english via latin

I didn't suggest it didn't have an earlier etymology. I suggested its Greek origin precedes Latin.

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #109 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:02am

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:18pm:

Lestat, you are such a comfortingly dim barbarian, I do not have the heart to insult you further. Your are afflicted sufficiently already.

oooh...big words...thats very clever of you Soren. I would of thought that you would be sick of myself and Abu time and time again exposing your innacuracies and outright ludicrous claims. I guess thats what happens when you continuously google and cut and paste the first anti-Islamic material you can find without actually reading or knowing your topic first. Why don't you tell us all once again how Egypt attacked Israel/England/France in the 56 Suez war. Cheesy

Strange...I see no mention of 'beards' in that (yet again) cut and paste that you have provided.

hehe...and now you have nothing but to resort to insults.

Are you paying attention Freediver.

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jordan484

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #110 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:37am

Quote:

Why don't you tell us all once again how Egypt attacked Israel/England/France in the 56 Suez war.Cheesy

You know, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about something like this. I don't know who is right here, but let's just say for a minute that you are, it's rather unbecoming to behave in this manner when someone else is in the wrong. It's kind of like a kid at school who realises they are right and puts their thumb on their nose, wiggles their fingers and bellows "nah, nah, nee, nah, nah!". It makes you look a little bit silly and immature.

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Soren

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #111 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:57am

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:02am:

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:18pm:

Lestat, you are such a comfortingly dim barbarian, I do not have the heart to insult you further. Your are afflicted sufficiently already.

Why don't you tell us all once again how Egypt attacked Israel/England/France in the 56 Suez war. Cheesy

Told you already:

Quote:

soren wrote on Oct 1st, 2008, 2:52pm:
Empty bluster, Sancho.

Tinpot dictator harasses international shipping, tinpot dictator gets wacked. That's not aggression, that's justice. Egypt started the Suez crisis. What did Nasser expect? There would not have been a Suez Crisis without Egyptian delusions of adequacy.

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #112 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 9:25am

Soren wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:57am:

Lestat wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:02am:

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:18pm:

Lestat, you are such a comfortingly dim barbarian, I do not have the heart to insult you further. Your are afflicted sufficiently already.

Why don't you tell us all once again how Egypt attacked Israel/England/France in the 56 Suez war. Cheesy

Told you already:

Quote:

soren wrote on Oct 1st, 2008, 2:52pm:
Empty bluster, Sancho.

Tinpot dictator harasses international shipping, tinpot dictator gets wacked. That's not aggression, that's justice. Egypt started the Suez crisis. What did Nasser expect? There would not have been a Suez Crisis without Egyptian delusions of adequacy.

hehe...once again you have been exposed so you are backtracking...moving the goal posts so to speak.

You never said that 'Egypt' started the Suez crisis (which is debatable but I won't waste my time with you.).

What you did do...was provide a list of 'wars' in which you stated quite clearly was a list of wars in which arabs 'attacked'...you included the Suez crisis in this list. Its unfortunate that you cannot be man enough to admit that you were blatantly wrong...unfortunate, but not really surprising.

Seems that you never get sick of being exposed....keep up the good work..err, sanchez. Cheesy

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Lestat

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #113 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 9:27am

jordan484 wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 8:37am:

Quote:

Why don't you tell us all once again how Egypt attacked Israel/England/France in the 56 Suez war.Cheesy

You know, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about something like this. I don't know who is right here, but let's just say for a minute that you are, it's rather unbecoming to behave in this manner when someone else is in the wrong. It's kind of like a kid at school who realises they are right and puts their thumb on their nose, wiggles their fingers and bellows "nah, nah, nee, nah, nah!". It makes you look a little bit silly and immature.

Given the nature of nearly all your posts directed at Abu and your obsession with him....the hypocricy of this post is breathtaking....

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: No wonder islamics are militant Reply #114 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 9:38am What's the nature of my posts? You seem overly concerned with myself and abu. I'm not exactly sure what that means, although I am flattered that you pay me so much attention.
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locutius

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #115 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 10:27am

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:22pm:

Quote:

Ask them today - the east starts at the turkish border.

So in the time of ancient Greece, which is what I was talking about, Turkey never existed, nor did any false "East/West" border that was an advent in the period after the Ottoman conquests of Anatolia.

And yet you mentioned the West. Whether Turkey existed or not, the area starting with Asia Minor has historically been considered Eastern. The Greeks saw a cultural and racial distinction between themselves and the Persians in particular.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:22pm:

Quote:

The Greeks traded with everyone, colonised much of the mediterreanen, notably Sicily and around Naples, .as well as around modern Marseilles and the Spanish coast

Actually most of their settlements were further east... Why are you trying to falsify this to make them so Western? This map shows Greek civilisation around 600 B.C.E

I see. So their settlements/colonies make them something different to what they recognise themselves to be. In that case, maybe you are familiar with that great Asian Hindi power.....Britain. Where a power expands to does not alter the identity of the Mother country.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:22pm:

As you can see, a lot of it is quite clearly outside of tradittionally Western European territory.

Again. So? Australia has a Western European identity because we were once a Western European colony located as far away as you could possibly be.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:22pm:

Quote:

The Romans had Greek slaves teacing all their children. Greek was the language of learning throughout Rome

There's no doubting the Romans looked up to the Greeks, but the Greeks looked up to the Egyptians, Babylonians and other eastern civilisations. They never mentioned anything about any other great Western civilisation they looked up to.

The Greeks looked up to Egypt and Babylon for good reason. There was much to be admired in their civilizations. That does not make the Greeks eastern, merely astute if nothing else. Of course they were much more than just that, they were the first great Western power so it would have been difficult for them to look up to one.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 10:22pm:

Quote:

Can't say the same for the educated class of Arabs or Mohammedans at any point in history.

The Arabs were the ones who preserved most of the Greek works and passed them back to Europe. Without us, you probably wouldn't even know who the Greeks were today. Yeh you mentioned something about Irish monks once, but doesn't mean a lot. The fact is the ARABS were the ones who primarily passed knowledge of Greek civilisation to you.

For which I for one am eternally grateful. It still does not make the Greeks eastern nor for that matter the Arabs western because they saw value in preserving some of the greatest works ever produced.

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2008 at 11:19am by locutius »

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: No wonder islamics are militant Reply #116 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 10:42am man, I started this thread as a joke !!!!!!!!!! maybe should have called it "No wonder islamics are obsessive " I thought i was a bit compulsive/obsessive, but you guys put me to shame !!!!!!!!!
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Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #117 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 10:56am

Lestat wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 9:04pm:

Really Yada...your posts are just incoherent crap and cut & paste jobs from anti-Islamic sites that you have googled..........
.....You provide one example...of one church converted into a mosque. No mention of the other thousands of Churches and Synagogues which remained in tact during muslim rule...some which even exist today. For example...St Katherine's monastry in Egypt...and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

Yadda, googling once again....

"Hagia Sophia.....is a former patriarchal basilica, later a mosque, now a museum in Istanbul, Turkey......It was the largest cathedral ever built in the world for nearly a thousand years....It was the patriarchal church of the Patriarch of Constantinople and the religious focal point of the Eastern Orthodox Church for nearly 1000 years.
In 1453, Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Turks and Sultan Mehmed II ordered the building to be converted into the Ayasofya Mosque."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

Iran: Seven historic synagogues in Tehran destroyed
Tehran, 15 April [2008] (AKI) - Seven ancient synagogues in the Iranian capital, Tehran, have been destroyed by local authorities.
The synagogues were in the Oudlajan suburb of Tehran, where many Iranian Jews used to live.
"These buildings, which were part of our cultural, artistic and architectural heritage were burnt to the ground," said Ahmad Mohit Tabatabaii, the director of the International Council of Museums’ (ICOM) office in Tehran.
"With the excuse of renovating this ancient quarter, they are erasing a part of our history," said Tabatabaii.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.2075294012

16 May 2006
Pressure on multi-faith Malaysia
Malaysia is considering its multi-cultural credentials after a crowd of Muslims on Sunday broke up a meeting called to defend the rights of religious minorities.
...."I'm becoming an alien in Malaysia, in my own country," says Dr Jacob George.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm

Destruction of Non-Muslim Worship Centers Riles Faith Minorities in Malaysia
By Sean Yoong for AP:
April 01, 2007
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - The cavernous pink Putra Mosque with its soaring minaret is one of the most commanding sights and popular tourist photo backdrops in the new city of Putrajaya.
A house of worship for thousands of Muslims in the 8-year-old administrative capital of Malaysia, it is a showcase of the nation's dominant faith Islam.
But the mosque also highlights the fact that Putrajaya doesn't have a single church or temple a fact that minority Buddhists, Hindus and Christians see as one example of the second-class treatment other faiths get in this Muslim-majority country.
http://christianpost.com/article/20070330/destruction-of-non-muslim-worship-centers-riles-faith-minorities-in-malaysia.htm

Church demolished in Muslim-run state [Malaysia]
June 19 2007
Kuala Lumpur - Authorities have demolished a church in a Muslim-ruled state in northeast Malaysia, sparking anger among the indigenous people who say they own the property....
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=nw20070619141302153C420344

Google,
destruction of non-muslim places of worship
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=destruction+of+non-muslim+places+of+worship&btnG=Search&meta=

.....25,000 hits

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abu_rashid

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #118 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 11:22am

Quote:

And yet you mentioned the West. Whether Turkey existed or not, the area starting with Asia Minor has historically been considered Eastern. The Greeks saw a cultural and racial distinction between themselves and the Persians in particular.

Funnily enough they're probably more closely related to Persians, by language certainly anyway, than they were with any other Middle Easterners.

Quote:

I see. So their settlements/colonies make them something different to what they recognise themselves to be.

What it indicates is that they had very little interest in engaging with the peoples to the North and West, as they considered them completely devoid of civilisation. They obviously considered themselves much more part of the civilisations that grew origiinally out of the fertile crescent, than of the tribalistic cave men who inhabited the North and West of Europe in that time.

Quote:

In that case, maybe you are familiar with that great Asian Hindi power.....Britain. Where a power expands to does not alter the identity of the Mother country.

Much different dynamics at work there and I think you know it. The age of discovery, with the ability to travel half way 'round the world by ship, and to harvest massive resources from far off lands and ship them home provided much different incentives and abilities than did the land-based conquests of earlier civilisations.

Quote:

The Greeks looked up to Egypt and Babylon for good reason. The was much to be admired in the civilizations.

That's right, and they didn't even look at all to the West, because there was nothing there to even look at. That's all my original point was. The locus of civilisation in that time was centred in the Middle East, as it had been for thousands of years. Today it is undoubtedly centred in the West, nobody doubts that, but that's a different issue.

Quote:

That does not make the Greeks eastern, merely astute if nothing else

I think it is undoubtable that they conisdered themselves the Western-most extremity of the civilisation that was centred around the Middle East, rather than the Eastern most part of Europe. This is all my point was. they were not a part of any European civilisation, because there was no civilisation in Europe at that time. They never even bothered going into Europe as the truly first Western civilisation, the Romans did. And if you look at the map of Greece, even in the time of Alexander the Great, you'll see quite clearly where they considered the 'known world' to be, and in which direction they were facing.

The casting of them as part of a Western civilisation did not occur until probably a millenium or more after their decline. It's all good and well for you to include them as part of Western European civilisation, but in their time, they probably didn't even know Western Europe existed, even though it was fully accessible to them, they had absolutely no drive whatsoever to even interact with it.

Quote:

nor for that matter the Arabs western because they saw value in preserving some of the greatest works ever produced.

Soren had claimed the Arabs had not bothered with Greek at any time in their history, I merely countered this false claim. Please read my statements in the context of what I was replying to.

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Yadda

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Re: No wonder islamics are militant
Reply #119 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 11:37am

Lestat wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 9:04pm:

Really Yada...your posts are just incoherent crap and cut & paste jobs from anti-Islamic sites that you have googled. Really....much of it is garbage and you have failed to address any of the points I raised...not one.

For example..when I said the following...

"When the Christians conquered Spain, it marked the beginning of the inquisition, where hundreds of thousands of muslims/jews were given two choices, convert or die. So successful was this genocide that no muslims survived in Spain.
"

Lestat, today, i don't deny that the Spanish inquisition happened.

And i think that it was insane, and that this behaviour was terrible and demented.

+++++++

But,
What about the actions and pronouncements today, of ppl claiming to be devout muslims?

Do 'pure', 'true' muslims acknowledge this behaviour is happening [without justifying it], and condemn it???

#1,

London, Sept.8 [2007]
"Muslims should
preach peace
till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

#2,

What about the FACT of what the Saudis are teaching their children today.....
......hatred of 'unbelievers'.

July 25, 2008
.....from a recent edition of a Saudi fourth-grade textbook,....

Q. "Is belief true in the following instances:
....(a) A man prays but hates those who are virtuous.
....(b) A man professes that there is no deity other than God but loves the unbelievers.
....(c) A man worships God alone, loves the believers, AND HATES THE UNBELIEVERS."

The correct answer, of course, is (c): According to the Wahhabi imams who wrote this textbook,
IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO SIMPLY WORSHIP GOD or just to love other believers;
IT IS IMPORTANT TO HATE UNBELIEVERS, too.
By the same token, (b) is wrong as well: Even a man who worships God cannot be said to have "true belief" if he also loves unbelievers.

Google,
school textbooks Saudi Arabia teach muslim children to hate unbelievers
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=school+textbooks+Saudi+Arabia+teach+muslim+children+to+hate+unbelievers&btnG=Search&meta=

Google,
obligatory to show enmity to the unbeliever
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=obligatory+to+show+enmity+to+the+unbeliever&btnG=Search&meta=

#3,

UK muslim cleric - speaking publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.
August 7, 2005
Inside the sect that loves terror
"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. LATER WHEN HE ADDRESSED HIS OWN FOLLOWERS he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

UK cleric promotes terror, example #1

Cleric preaches that violence is part of Islam
By Duncan Gardham
01/05/2007
In documents seen by The Daily Telegraph, al-Muhajiroun claimed: "TERRORISM IS A PART OF ISLAM" and "Allah made it obligatory to prepare and to terrify the enemy of Allah".
The article advised: "The kuffar of USA and UK are without doubt our enemy.There is no such thing as an innocent kafir, innocence is only applicable for the Muslims. Not only is it obligatory to fight them, it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/01/nplot901.xml

UK cleric promotes terror, example #2

Inside the sect that loves terror
August 07, 2005
......Last week Omar Brooks stirred controversy with televised comments, but they were carefully chosen to avoid appearing to incite violence. On Saturday, July 2 he had been more forthright.
Speaking to a group of teenagers and families, he declared it was IMPERATIVE FOR MUSLIMS TO INSTIL TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THE KUFFAR and added: I am a terrorist. As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist.
......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

++++

Where are the pure & true muslims, who are denouncing these statements, publicly, and in their mosque sermons???

Listen to the words of muslims,
....who say one thing [about ISLAM and its aims], WHEN SPEAKING PUBLICLY,
....and then say [and encourage], **the exact opposite**, WHEN SPEAKING PRIVATELY [TO OTHER MUSLIMS].

Dispatches - Undercover Mosque (1 of 6)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

Persecution of 3000 Ex-Muslim Christians in UK - (Part 1/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXF-rJAOHGQ

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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