Sappho wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 3:59pm:



Just a minor point huh?  Finer details??..my god aborting at 20 and much more unbelievable 24...

When we consider babies born at 21 weeks now can be saved that is just criminal.

As for using these babies for experimentation purposes in a lab..it wont happen..how will that legislation get past the ethics committees or whatever..?

I would never vote for a Govt who allowed this.

I'm neither.

I don't believe that abortion should ever be an easy option, and that each case should be assessed on the basis of risk to the mother and the potential child (e.g. gross disability).

I don't believe that abortion should be totally illegal, just that any woman considering it needs to go through counselling and they need to understand the options that are available. They need to be shown graphical images of what is involved.

There are still plenty of people around who want to adopt.

Well I guess we should expect emotive nonsense from the god botherers who seek to have their standards and beliefs forced onto all, but it is disappointing, nonetheless, to see their lack of empathy so proudly displayed.

The whole issue in Victoria, was about removing abortions performed by medical practitioners from the criminal code.

The arrogantly, ignorant parade their idiocy with statements about women being able to choose to terminate at 24 weeks for "convenience", and anyone who has the slightest shred of decency and compassion knows that such an abortion would only happen because of the strongest medical grounds.
Any woman who wanted to abort for "convenience", as they so churlishly describe it, would do so in the first trimester.

Abortion is a no win situation, any woman who, thoughtlessly, would use abortion as a means of convenient contraception, as claimed by the religious wackos, would certainly have serious emotional issues which would bring into serious question the desirability of them actually being mums.

In a perfect world, all children would be wanted, and loved, and well provided for, well here is a newsflash for the wackos, it isn't a perfect world.

The debate about life's beginning, while important, is certainly not definitive, and most choose to assess their opinion on the issue, in line with their stance on abortion, which always makes me hum a few bars of "Every Sperm Is Sacred", in my head.

I know lots of women who have had abortions, and I know that not a single one of them took it lightly, they made a choice about their life, and how best they could live that life as fruitfully as possible, and sometimes making the tough decision to abort, is unquestionably the right decision for them.

Victoria has moved to make sure that the stinking god botherers cannot pursue legal harassment of medical professionals who try and help women, through this most difficult time.

That sounds pretty decent to me.

queer wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 8:23am:


No. But I think any pro-lifer "who truly" believed that abortions were murder should if they had the courage of their convictions. The fact that I don't feel moved to do that makes me question whether I am pro-life or not.

Put it this way, if a person or groups of people were going around murdering, say, five year old children and the authorities for whatever reason said that the murderers had the right to do it, I'm sure many people would take the law into their own hands and take out the murderers for the greater good. So therefore if the right to lifers "truly" believe that abortion is murder and the authorities are allowing it to happen, why aren't more of them taking matters into their own hands? My point is that even right to lifers aren't 100% convinced that killing a fetus is a bad as killing a child. Because if killing a fetus was as cut and dry as killing a child, I'm sure more right to lifers would feel compelled to take radical action. As I said, I know some do, but most don't.

Also, not everybody who is against abortion is a God botherer. I'm certainly not. I'm a big Richard Dawkins fan.          

oceanz wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 9:35am:


And it is for all those reasons that when abortion is legal, we should harvest the humans aborted.

It's as ethical as anything else. Much better than wasting it through incineration. It's not wanted by the mother who has denied all rights to it through abortion. It could make a huge difference to the health and well being of current humans who are wanted.

Heck, if we can harvest organs from the living dead, why not from the aborted unwanted?

However, on the other side of the coin, I think a lot of pro-lifers don't have the courage of their convictions, because if they did they'd stop people who practice abortions, just as surely as they'd stop someone who was murdering five year old children. I guess when it comes to the crunch they’re ultimately looking out for themselves too. I know some pro-lifers have taken the law into their own hands, but most don’t.

That doesn't mean they don't have courage. It means they are remaining rational.

Put it this way, if a person or groups of people were going around murdering, say, five year old children and the authorities for whatever reason said that the murderers had the right to do it, I'm sure many people would take the law into their own hands and take out the murderers for the greater good.

So they would take out the murderers, but not the government that OKs it? They would get themselves shot, but not achieve much more.

Also, not everybody who is against abortion is a God botherer. I'm certainly not. I'm a big Richard Dawkins fan.

Thanks for pointing that out. Too many pro-choicer's try to blame it all on religion, as if non-religious people are incapable of having the same moral standards.

Abortion at 20 -24 weeks.........that's definitely murder in my eyes.

Any sympathy for pro choice is completely evaporated for such late terminations. Even 12 weeks makes me shudder.

And as for harvesting, all I can say is that I love science but there are times when I just don't trust it. Stem cell research is one of those areas where there is the stench of the cororate carrion eaters.