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Climate change has become a religion (Read 3901 times)
John
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Climate change has become a religion
Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:16pm
 
Disregarding the science behind climate change, does anyone actually believe this nation of 20 million people can make the slightest bit of difference as far as preventing climate change by altering our energy consumption habits, especially considering sea levels rose and fell several hundred metres before humans even existed?

It seems everyone is jumping on the bandwagon - governments, big companies, the media - by mentioning climate change after everything.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:26pm
 
Hi John, you aren't very bright are you?

Do you have any concept of what a "timeframe" is?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #2 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:28pm
 
John wrote on Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:16pm:
Disregarding the science behind climate change, does anyone actually believe this nation of 20 million people can make the slightest bit of difference as far as preventing climate change by altering our energy consumption habits, especially considering sea levels rose and fell several hundred metres before humans even existed?

It seems everyone is jumping on the bandwagon - governments, big companies, the media - by mentioning climate change after everything.


If you think that sea level change is the worst that climate change can do, then you're way off the mark.  Besides, it's the rate of change that is the problem.

No. The general population will have absolutely no effect on climate change because they are pig ignorant, and the only politicians they will vote in have a chronic inability to foresee the consequences of events past the period of an election term.

Disregard the science? The general population believe that astrology is a science.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #3 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:17pm
 
Mozz, be nice to Newbies. It's a rule.

John, refraining from personally poisoning the environment won't make much difference, but if everyone does it, it will make a difference. It's called the tragedy of the commons. Enlightened societies have managed to rise above it.
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John
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #4 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 6:37am
 
I'd say it's a feel good thing. Australia is less than a third of a percent of the world's population, and yet we have individual states making "climate change initiatives".
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #5 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 7:28am
 
John wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 6:37am:
I'd say it's a feel good thing. Australia is less than a third of a percent of the world's population, and yet we have individual states making "climate change initiatives".


The question is - Would it be preferable to get in the the excuse mode or the leading example role?

Australia - We're only 0.3% of the world's population. Why should we bother?

China - We're a developing nation. Why should we have to curb our growth when it was the Western nations that got us in this mess to start with?

USA - We're not going to do anything until China And India start first.

Until one country actually starts to lead by example, we're dead in the water. It might be too late already.

Is it a religion to take practical steps to ensure the future survival of humanity?

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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #6 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 8:41am
 
John wrote on Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:16pm:
Disregarding the science behind climate change, does anyone actually believe this nation of 20 million people can make the slightest bit of difference as far as preventing climate change by altering our energy consumption habits, especially considering sea levels rose and fell several hundred metres before humans even existed?

It seems everyone is jumping on the bandwagon - governments, big companies, the media - by mentioning climate change after everything.


Why do so many sceptics pretend Australia is the only country doing somthing about climate change?
I look at these people as climate terrorists, the're the sort of people who always expect everyone else to do the heavy lifting.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #7 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:02am
 
John wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 6:37am:
I'd say it's a feel good thing. Australia is less than a third of a percent of the world's population, and yet we have individual states making "climate change initiatives".


Think Globally, Act Locally sums it up nicely. Everyone needs to do their fair share. There are many issues besides global warming that endanger future generations that benefit from having a more environmental friendly attitude and practice. Such as pollution, sustainability of natural resourses, protecting biodiversity, etc etc. Even if global warming turns out to be a white elephant, these other issues are critical to health and happiness of future generations, and depending on your age, maybe even you.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #8 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:31am
 
Every industrialised nation except the US is well ahead of Australia. We are not leading in any way. We are one of the stragglers.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #9 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:57am
 
The real culprit is overpopulation of the planet. Human activity is only function of that.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:02am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:31am:
Every industrialised nation except the US is well ahead of Australia. We are not leading in any way. We are one of the stragglers.


Australia has the highest greenhouse gas emissions per capita and are running about half the clean energy generation per capita of the US.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #11 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:33am
 
muso wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:02am:
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:31am:
Every industrialised nation except the US is well ahead of Australia. We are not leading in any way. We are one of the stragglers.


Australia has the highest greenhouse gas emissions per capita and are running about half the clean energy generation per capita of the US.


Interesting. Considering that the US are far from the leaders in this, could it be suggested that maybe we have a footprint of 100 million compared to some countries. So it is a mutepoint to argue from a 20 million pop. position.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #12 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:35am
 
Sure, for a small country we are contributing far more than our fair share of the problem. There are probably nations with ten times our population that pollute less.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:35am
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 9:57am:
The real culprit is overpopulation of the planet.


True enough. Australia's pop. should be about 2 million tops. Globally pop. should maybe be about 200 million tops.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #14 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:47am
 
muso wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:02am:
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Australia has the highest greenhouse gas emissions per capita ...


Who has the lowest greenhouse gas emissions per capita?
If we want to be an example we should look at the current example first, shouldn't we?
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Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:50am
 
There are plenty of good examples to look at Tallo, but in the long run we will have to do better than what has been done so far.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:57am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:50am:
There are plenty of good examples to look at Tallo, but in the long run we will have to do better than what has been done so far.



There are plenty of good and plenty of bad and even more in between but to say that Australia has the highest entitle the question about who has the lowest. Besides if we want to be the shiner it is practical to know who is now and what we should be like.

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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:02am
 
I think that finding the 'shiniest' example may be a it more subtle than finding the country with the lowest emissions. I'd look for a country that has signficantly reduced it's emissions while maintaining it's standard of living. After all, that is what we want to do.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:11am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:02am:
I think that finding the 'shiniest' example may be a it more subtle than finding the country with the lowest emissions. I'd look for a country that has signficantly reduced it's emissions while maintaining it's standard of living. After all, that is what we want to do.



Didn't we reduce our emissions per capita already?

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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:24am
 
Possibly, depending on whether you include land clearing.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #20 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 3:58am
 
That per capita argument is a total crock...  why use it?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #21 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 8:51am
 
Why is it a crock? And what measurement would you suggest?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #22 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 9:58am
 
locutius wrote on Oct 10th, 2008 at 8:51am:
Why is it a crock? And what measurement would you suggest?



Per square meter or simple total would put us right up front.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #23 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:30am
 
So one person living on a semi arid property should get to emit as much as an entire city? Is that supposed to make sense?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #24 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:03am
 
There are plenty of good examples. I'd regard France and Iceland as shining examples; France for its predominately nuclear power generation and Iceland for its geothermal.

You can have a developed society and a high level of clean energy generation.

Of course, if you go to Mauritania or Sudan, then they have the lowest energy consumption of all, but we don't exactly want to get into that state.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #25 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:28am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:30am:
So one person living on a semi arid property should get to emit as much as an entire city? Is that supposed to make sense?


So people who live in a city should get to emit as much as they like? Doesn't make sense to me. Does it to you?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #26 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:35am
 
No, that doesn't make sense either Tallow, but if you keep trying you'll come up with a sensible approach.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #27 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:41am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:35am:
No, that doesn't make sense either Tallow, but if you keep trying you'll come up with a sensible approach.


Limiting pollution by acreage allowances would be very effective.
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #28 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:15pm
 
I just realised you didn't actually answer this question the first time. I just assumed you understood the point.

So one person living on a semi arid property should get to emit as much as an entire city? Is that supposed to make sense?
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Re: Climate change has become a religion
Reply #29 - Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:15pm:
I just realised you didn't actually answer this question the first time. I just assumed you understood the point.

So one person living on a semi arid property should get to emit as much as an entire city? Is that supposed to make sense?


Of course not. Your proposition implies that everybody else should make as much pollution as somebody else whereas my suggestion of limiting pollution by acreage allowances implies decreasing pollution and also addressing the main problem of the overpopulation of the planet.


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