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why are taxes going toward private schools? (Read 4473 times)
bliss
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why are taxes going toward private schools?
Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:02am
 
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freediver
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:11am
 
Because the parents of the students who attend pay taxes just like everyone else.

Also, students in the private system save the taxpayer money, which means more money can be spent per child in the public system.

Public vs private education:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172911103
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« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:55am by freediver »  

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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #2 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:41am
 
Bliss, do you expect that the ruling class should have to subsidise their own eliteism. They got the prole's to do that. Abolish all private schools is the best solution.
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tallowood
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #3 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 12:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:11am:
Because the parents of the students who attend pay taxes just like everyone else.

Also, students in the private system save the taxpayer money, which means more money can be spent per child in the public system.



Agree and want to add that if "user pay' type of funding would be introduced for school public schooling wouldn't be the winner.

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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #4 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:02am
 
Suppose instead of funding schools directly, the government gave each child a certain amount, which could only be passed onto an approved school, private or public, which the student attends. Government approval would be based on teaching a certain minimum curriculum.

Would that be fair? If not, why not?
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #5 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:11am
 
Of course it is fair.
Like a flat tax system is fair.
Like if you can afford good medical treatment you live, if you can't you die.
Fair like that.
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #6 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:16am
 
All of the examples you gave are regressive. Do you consider it regressive to give every child equal access to education? This is the opposite of the examples you gave.
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #7 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:24am
 
Quote:
Suppose instead of funding schools directly, the government gave each child a certain amount, which could only be passed onto an approved school, private or public, which the student attends. Government approval would be based on teaching a certain minimum curriculum.

Would that be fair? If not, why not?


It would only disadvantage public school children more than they are now.  The states also contribute to private schools and this has only increased the social divide.  If people want their kids to go to a private or religious school - let them pay for it.

This is an old article, but we have recently found out private schools have rorted Federal funding and no audit has been done over the last decade. The balance now is so out of whack that for public schools to even receive all the basics needed to raise educated children, all funding to private schools would have to be redirected to the public system and so it should be.

In fact we haven't seen any recent figures on how much funding private education is receiving compared to public education.  All education should be equal and of a high standard.

Bliss might have provided current figures - but her link is no longer available.

The Howard government's States Grants (Primary and Secondary Education Assistance) Bill 2000, set to be passed by the end of the year, delivers a calculated blow to public schools and further encourages the privatisation of education. Multi-million dollar handouts will be extended to Australia's wealthiest private schools, the Bill's major beneficiaries. Religious schools will also receive significant funding increases. Government schools, on the other hand, will continue to face declining budgets.

The federal government's four year $22 billion education budget allocates the bulk of funding—$14 billion—to private schools while public schools, with 70 percent of students, receive $7.6 billion. The 62 most privileged private schools, enrolling just 5.6 percent of students, will be handed an additional $46 million.

Spelled out in terms of school resources, the King's School in the Sydney suburb of Parramatta, with its 15 cricket fields, five basketball courts, a 50-metre swimming pool, indoor rifle range, gym and fees of $11,600 a year, will reap an extra $1.5 million a year under the Howard government's new scheme, bringing its total federal government funding in 2004 to almost $3 million annually.

The Malek Fahd Islamic School, also in Sydney, is built on land bought with a $12 million gift from the King of Saudi Arabia 10 years ago. It scoops $7.5 million more from the federal government under the new formula.

By contrast, the Bill allocates government schools an average increase of $4,000 each annually, although state education authorities dispute even this paltry amount. They claim that, because of price increases, government schools will receive no real extra funding. Moreover, under the 1996 Enrolment Benchmark Adjustment (EBA) formula, many will actually lose. The EBA reduces federal government funding to public schools if their share of student enrolments fails to keep up with that of private schools—even if their actual numbers increase. Under the EBA, public schools lost $11.9 million in 1998, $21.1 million in 1999 and stand to lose an estimated $27 million this year.

The States Grants 2000 Bill accelerates a process pursued by both Liberal and Labor state and federal governments over the past 15 years of encouraging the growth of private schools at the direct expense of public schools. Twenty years ago, 50.8 percent of federal funds went to public schools. By 1996, after 13 years of Labor government, this had declined to 41.5 percent. By 2004, only 35 percent of federal funding will go to public schools. In the last five years alone, federal and state government funding to private schools has increased by 23.5 percent in real terms, while public schools have had their funding cut by 5 percent.


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/oct2000/edu-o18.shtml
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #8 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:39am
 
Did you notice that your article, despite all the proaganda, did not quote either the amount given on a per student per year basis, or the total amount given per school or per sector? If you only quote the change in funding, you have no idea at all what the real story is.

They do pay for it mantra. However, making them pay the full price would actually make public school students worse off. It would kill the private schools, the students would end up in public schools, which would then have even less money to spend for students.

The problem is that you are seeing it as an us-vs-them issue. It is not. All parents have the same choice to send their children to a private school. It is about choice, not a class struggle. Making them pay for it in full won't affect the super-rich. It will only affect poor students, because they are the ones that really depend on the government subsidy. People don't send their kids to private schools just because they are rich. They send them because they place a higher value on education. There are plenty of poorer families getting a better education for their children because of the government subsidy. They still pay a lot of money themselves, but the subsidy puts it within reach. The subsidy makes everyone better off - both public and private school students.

If someone wants a better education for their child, they shouldn't be discriminated against in the spending of public funds. They are making a huge sacrifice so that their child can be a more productive member of society. This should be encouraged, not discouraged.
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #9 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:48am
 
Quote:
Did you notice that your article, despite all the proaganda, did not quote either the amount given on a per student per year basis, or the total amount given per school or per sector? If you only quote the change in funding, you have no idea at all what the real story is.


No it didn't say how much each child receives - but I will hunt around for something on that.  At the moment it's quite possible that private schools receive more funding per child than public schools and in PA - someone quoted the Exclusive Bretheren as receiving $12,000 per child - yet I know that today public schools only receive roughly about $8,000 per child and they are held accountable for every cent.

Quote:
If someone wants a better education for their child, they shouldn't be discriminated against in the spending of public funds. They are making a huge sacrifice so that their child can be a more productive member of society. This should be encouraged, not discouraged.


Maybe - but it depends what views you hold.  Howard didn't encourage an egalitarian society, but Rudd eventually might.  In another 12 months as more people become unemployed - subsidies to private institutions may decrease considerably and this would be in the best interest of the majority.

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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #10 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 11:02am
 
Private schools also help solve the problem of underpayment of teachers. They can pay more to get the best teachers, thus preventing them from leaving the teaching workforce and providing better incentives for potential teachers to go down that path.

This is one area where private education will inevitably outperform public education. If you look at the proposals for performance based teacher salaries in the public sector, it quickly starts to look like a massive load of useless paperwork that will merely reward those teachers who can get the right boxes ticked.
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #11 - Dec 9th, 2008 at 5:03pm
 
Sounds to me like a pile of BS. Fd makes statements but offers no figures.
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #12 - Dec 9th, 2008 at 6:50pm
 
In America the government does not subsidise private schools. As a result, they are pretty much non-existent. Those students attend public schools instead, at greater cost to the taxpayer. This reduces both the quality of public school education and the choice available for parents. It's basically a matter of logic.

Suppose instead of funding schools directly, the government gave each child a certain amount, which could only be passed onto an approved school, private or public, which the student attends. Government approval would be based on teaching a certain minimum curriculum.

Would that be fair? If not, why not?
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tallowood
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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2008 at 8:24pm
 
This far I agree with FD.

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Re: why are taxes going toward private schools?
Reply #14 - Dec 9th, 2008 at 8:53pm
 
Public schools aren't fair. You find a really good public school and you will get a teacher sit there for 20 years, which isn't supposed to happen, but does.

Public teachers are lazy because it is very hard for them to lose their jobs. At least in private schools they can get the arse very quickly for stuffing around.
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