Australian Politics Forum - sex with animals

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	sex with animals Oct 6^th, 2008 at 11:58pm What's a Wudhu and a Ghusl? Are they the only punishment for having sex with animals? If you don't want to pray afterwards, can you get off scott free? Are there similar rules for women who have sex with animals?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: sex with animals Reply #1 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 7:04am Wudhu = ablution (minor purification required before each prayer) Ghusl - bath/shower (major purification, required after sex/menstruation) Sex with animals?? Are you normal? Does this prove my point that de-sensitising nudity has driven you to deviant acts/thoughts?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	Re: sex with animals Reply #2 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 9:43am What is the punishment for having sex with animals?
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abu_rashid

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #3 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 10:06am

Quote:

What is the punishment for having sex with animals?

I have never come across a ruling, as I doubt Muslims would've even stooped to such a despicable level of depravity. As I said, this kind of thing might occur in the West where some people have become so de-sensitisied to the normal sexual practises that they develop fetishes about unnatural things like this, but I don't think it's ever been an issue for Muslims.

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freediver

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #4 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 10:48am

Is this genuine?

If (God forbid!) a person has sexual intercourse with an animal and ejaculates, Ghusl alone will be sufficient for him, and if he does not ejaculate and he was with wudhu at the time of committing the unnatural act even then Ghusl will be sufficient for him.
However, if he was not with wudhu at that time, the obligatory precaution is that he should do Ghusl and also perform wudhu. And the same orders apply if one commits sodomy.

http://www.al-shia.org/html/eng/books/fiqh&usool/islamic-laws/48.html

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: sex with animals Reply #5 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 11:07am Quote: Is this genuine? I don't really know enough about the Shi'a to know if it's a genuine site, but it looks to be. Would be best off asking Malik about it, since I am not Shi'a and therefore don't follow their teachings.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	Re: sex with animals Reply #6 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 11:29am So Shiits and Sunnis differ on their opinions regarding sex with animals?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: sex with animals Reply #7 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 11:40am As I said, I'm not familar with their rulings. But even reading what you posted, I don't see anywhere that it says this abomination is permissible, in fact it says "God forbid". But it is troubling why they even had to go into the issue to begin with.
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freediver

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #8 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 11:46am

I don't see any need to track down a shiit because I would expect it to be universal.

I think it would be very strange if Islam proscribed ablutions for those who have had sex with animals but no punishments. Why would they make everything else a matter of law and punishment, but leave this as a 'presonal moral code'. Perhaps this is the source of that joke.

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tallowood

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #9 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 11:51am

It is also mentioned in Tahrirolvasyleh book by Ayatollah Khomeini:

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A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.

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If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned.

http://g33klite.com/index.php/facts/general/299-the-controversial-tahrirolvasyleh-book

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: sex with animals Reply #10 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:03pm The punishment for having sex with an animal should simply be the knowledge that one has had sex with an animal. Who does this? Who even thinks about doing it? Goodness me.
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abu_rashid

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #11 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:34pm

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I think it would be very strange if Islam proscribed ablutions for those who have had sex with animals but no punishments

Firstly we need to be clear, this appears to be a Shi'a website, and even then it is an Ithna Ashari website, which are a sub-sect of the Shi'a (albeit the largest one). To make a claim about Islam, based on a website by a tiny sect, who are clearly astray from the mainstream is just ridiculous. Please don't use the term "Islam", use the term "Shi'a" if you must, as my religion has nothing to do with this nonsense you're proclaiming.

Kinda like me trashing all Christians, just because Jim Jones was a looney leader of some little sect that claimed to be Christian. Or considering all Atheists to be represented by Communism.

Also, the page you linked to is only the rulings on purification, of course it wouldn't list the punishments, as that'd most likely be in seperate chapters of the book (or most likely a whole book devoted to hadd (legal punishments)), if their books are organised the same as those of the mainstream Muslims. I'd suggest you ask a Shi'a what the punishment is, before claiming they don't have a punishment for it.

Quote:

Why would they make everything else a matter of law and punishment, but leave this as a 'presonal moral code'.

Do you see any other punishments mentioned in the same chapter? Or even in the same book? Do you think that chapter or that book represents the whole of their belief or something?

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: sex with animals Reply #12 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:36pm Quote: Please don't use the term "Islam", use the term "Shi'a" if you must, as my religion has nothing to do with this nonsense you're proclaiming. Beep beep beep.
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freediver

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #13 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 1:08pm

To make a claim about Islam, based on a website by a tiny sect, who are clearly astray from the mainstream is just ridiculous.

That's why I brought the matter to you, grand master Abu. Please tell us what the appropriate punishment is for sex with animals. I did not make any claims. I asked questions.

as my religion has nothing to do with this nonsense you're proclaiming

Are you saying that Islam does not proscribe ablutions after sex with animals, or any other punishment?

I'd suggest you ask a Shi'a what the punishment is

But you just finished explaining that it wouldn't tell me what Islam is anyway.

Is Ayatollah Khomeini a respected Muslim?

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abu_rashid

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Re: sex with animals
Reply #14 - Oct 7^th, 2008 at 1:33pm

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That's why I brought the matter to you, grand master Abu. Please tell us what the appropriate punishment is for sex with animals.

As mentioned above, I've never come across any such case of this abomination occuring for it to be even ruled upon.

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Are you saying that Islam does not proscribe ablutions after sex with animals, or any other punishment?

It seems from this statement and the statement in your original post:
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What's a Wudhu and a Ghusl? Are they the only punishment

That you think Wudhu and Ghusl are a punishment, and more specifically for this abomination you mentioned? Every Muslim performs Wudhu several times a day, it just means washing your hands, mouth, nose, face, head, ears and feet before you pray. It's not a punishment, it's a requirement for prayer, when any of the following things have occured: going to the toilet, passing wind, touching a member of the opposite sex. Ghusl (A shower/bath) is further required, if you have ejaculated, no matter how it happened, even a wet dream.

It's got nothing to do with punishments, and it's certainly nothing to do with this abominable act.

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But you just finished explaining that it wouldn't tell me what Islam is anyway.

That's right, but it would still be the right people to direct the question to, since it's from their books, which most Muslims consider false and not binding under Islamic law.

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Is Ayatollah Khomeini a respected Muslim?

I assume he is amongst Shi'a, amongst mainstream Muslims no, he holds no authority whatsoever.

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