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Socialism is not the answer (Read 9228 times)
queer
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Socialism is the answer!

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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #15 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:41am
 
In a socialist state the state (people) would decide what it is, it would be a fair rate, fair for the employer (state owned) and the employee, not like today where the employer can pay you just about whatever they want to. Generally, its accepted that, workers today only receive about half  or even less of their labor value.
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #16 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:58am
 
queer - hahahhaahhaha
and we will all be coffee coloured people, nooone will need locks or jails, all will live in total harmony, singing in tune all their lovely lives.
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #17 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:03pm
 
In a socialist state the state (people) would decide what it is

How so? There are a lot of jobs out there. I don't want to go through each one and try to choose a value for it. I might get it wrong.

The people also decide what value a job has in a capitalist system. It's just the mechanism that is different.
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queer
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #18 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:04pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:58am:
queer - hahahhaahhaha
and we will all be coffee coloured people, nooone will need locks or jails, all will live in total harmony, singing in tune all their lovely lives.

You're thinking of communism interpreted by the capitalist that doesn't know anything about it.



Quote:
The people also decide what value a job has in a capitalist system. It's just the mechanism that is different.

Read a few books by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels and then come back and discuss socialism, you will likely have a different opinion on it, if not, ya just cant teach some people what equality is.
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #19 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 1:38pm
 
queer wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:41am:
In a socialist state the state


Socialism will be free or it will not be at all - Rudolph Rocker


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freediver
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #20 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 1:48pm
 
So I have to read a few books before I can talk to you? If it takes a few books to explain it, then it is far too complicated to work. Either that, or they deliberately make it so long winded to hide it's flaws.

Do all communists attribute disagreement to ignorance on the other's part?
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #21 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:05pm
 
I'm on Queer's side here to a certain extent.

I think socialism can be really good if kept to a minimum.


'Socialism' meaning... Government ownership vs private ownership. 'Slight' wage equality. Free education. Free health. Etc etc.


However, I believe that socialism needs to kept to a minimum when it comes to more ideological/extreme things, such as open boarders, anti-wacism, complete wage equality for everyone and the intentional destruction of the upper classes.
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Exotic Cheese
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #22 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:13pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:05pm:
I'm on Queer's side here to a certain extent.

I think socialism can be really good if kept to a minimum.


'Socialism' meaning... Government ownership vs private ownership. 'Slight' wage equality. Free education. Free health. Etc etc.


However, I believe that socialism needs to kept to a minimum when it comes to more ideological/extreme things, such as open boarders, anti-wacism, complete wage equality for everyone and the intentional destruction of the upper classes.


Umm socialisms core is open borders, the eradication of the wage system and a classless society... so... you are in favour of current inequality... I guess thats why you are Donald Trump
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #23 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 1:48pm:
Do all communists attribute disagreement to ignorance on the other's part?


queer certainly does..
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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:53pm by oceanz »  

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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #24 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:48pm
 
queer - Quote:
In a socialist state the state (people) would decide what it is, it would be a fair rate, fair for the employer (state owned) and the employee, not like today where the employer can pay you just about whatever they want to. Generally, its accepted that, workers today only receive about half  or even less of their labor value.


So in the queer state, all workers would get a 100% pay rise ?
And entrepreneurs, business owners wold have their rewards decided for them ??
Any other ideas on how to stamp out original ideas and deliver an unworkable society ???
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ex-member DonaldTrump
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #25 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:08pm
 
Exotic Cheese wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:13pm:
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:05pm:
I'm on Queer's side here to a certain extent.

I think socialism can be really good if kept to a minimum.


'Socialism' meaning... Government ownership vs private ownership. 'Slight' wage equality. Free education. Free health. Etc etc.


However, I believe that socialism needs to kept to a minimum when it comes to more ideological/extreme things, such as open boarders, anti-wacism, complete wage equality for everyone and the intentional destruction of the upper classes.


Umm socialisms core is open borders, the eradication of the wage system and a classless society... so... you are in favour of current inequality... I guess thats why you are Donald Trump


Um... actually, extreme socialism (aka communism) is open borders and a classless society. 'Socialism' in actual fact is just a mild form of communism.

What I'm saying simply is that I favour 'some' aspects of socialism. Not all. I'm in no way a communist or do I believe that socialism will evolve into full-blown communism and then into a utopia.
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #26 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:14pm
 
There are nor pure socialist or capitalist states. So here you go... reality is the answer.
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Reality is a figment of imagination
 
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Exotic Cheese
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #27 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:58pm
 
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:08pm:
Exotic Cheese wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:13pm:
ex-member DonaldTrump wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 6:05pm:
I'm on Queer's side here to a certain extent.

I think socialism can be really good if kept to a minimum.


'Socialism' meaning... Government ownership vs private ownership. 'Slight' wage equality. Free education. Free health. Etc etc.


However, I believe that socialism needs to kept to a minimum when it comes to more ideological/extreme things, such as open boarders, anti-wacism, complete wage equality for everyone and the intentional destruction of the upper classes.


Umm socialisms core is open borders, the eradication of the wage system and a classless society... so... you are in favour of current inequality... I guess thats why you are Donald Trump


Um... actually, extreme socialism (aka communism) is open borders and a classless society. 'Socialism' in actual fact is just a mild form of communism.


No regular socialisms core ideals are a classless society and open borders.

tallowood wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:14pm:
There are nor pure socialist or capitalist states. So here you go... reality is the answer.


The reality is that states don't work very well
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #28 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 8:17pm
 
Exotic Cheese wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:58pm:
No regular socialisms core ideals are a classless society and open borders.


Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and ex socialist countries of Eastern Europe had closed borders. Cuba, China, NK have close borders. Sweden while practising socialism irregularly had as open borders as any capitalist state. That makes it many:1


Exotic Cheese wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:58pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:14pm:
There are nor pure socialist or capitalist states. So here you go... reality is the answer.


The reality is that states don't work very well


Anything better in real history?


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freediver
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Re: Socialism is not the answer
Reply #29 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 9:54pm
 
Does Australia have open borders?
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