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Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack (Read 12228 times)
oceanz
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Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Oct 2nd, 2008 at 4:48pm
 
The Australian
October 02, 2008

October 02, 2008
CALLS for a crocodile cull in far north Queensland after a suspected fatal attack earlier this week are ill-advised, an expert says.

Police and State Emergency Service volunteers are searching for 62-year-old holidaymaker Arthur Booker, who is believed to have fallen victim to a crocodile attack on the Endeavour River near Cooktown on Tuesday.

The incident has prompted north Queensland MP Bob Katter to call for a crocodile culling program in Cape York.

However, Australia Zoo senior wildlife ranger Barry Lyon said a crocodile cull would achieve nothing.

"It's just not going to work, the thing with crocodiles is that you can never guarantee that you've hunted them all out," Mr Lyon said.

"There's always going to be some survivors and some moving in from other areas to take their place."

Mr Lyon said crocodiles, because of their place at the top of the food chain, were an essential part of river and lagoon eco systems in the north.

He said extensive hunting of the large reptiles following World War II had a massive impact on river systems in the area.

"The eco systems were so out of balance that catfish were hugely abundant, we'd go fishing and you might catch 20 cat fish for one barra," Mr Lyon said.

"Since then the crocodiles have recovered and now you hardly ever catch a catfish - that's a good example of how they keep the whole system healthy."

He said the presumed attack on Mr Booker was a "terrible tragedy", and it was up to the Environmental Protection Agency to decide whether to trap or kill the crocodile believed to be responsible.

Crocodiles were a part of life in the north, and people who chose to camp or fish in croc infested waters needed to be on guard, Mr Lyon said.

"Stay out of the water, camp well away from the water, go fishing in a good sturdy high sided boat," he said.

He also warned campers against throwing food scraps or fish carcasses into the river.

"That attracts crocs, that's like fast food for them, and it puts people in a very dangerous situation."

----------------------------------------------->>>>>

Since the 1970s when croc hunting was outlawed..these killers have grown to plague proportions.
Much the same as white pointers in SA waters..


Attacks arent isolated anymore and there definitely needs to be a cull.

I cant get warm and fuzzy over a croc or a shark [or a spider bbrrr]..Im sorry... they are cold blooded killers with no soul.

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #1 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 5:03pm
 
Now that populations have recovered, there should be a return to croc hunting. You don't need to hunt them all out for it to be a valuable industry and to reduce the number of attacks.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #2 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 5:24pm
 
Crocs already are a valuable industry FD - they are farmed. They are removed from heavily populated areas such as Darwin Harbour by trapping. As to more remote locations why not leave them be? The safety aspect is a rather weak excuse to cull them.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #3 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 5:40pm
 
Why go to the trouble of farming something when you can get it for far less in the wild? Of course the croc farmers always oppose croc hunting, because it is the ban on croc hunting that makes them profitable. The fact that there is a hard way of doing something has never been a valid excuse for not doing it the easy way. The fact that harvesting a particular animal has an added advantage of increasing public safety is a reason in favour of the harvest, not against it. It is not an excuse, it is an additional reason.

Do you need an excuse to catch fish? Why should catching crocs be any different?
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #4 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 2nd, 2008 at 5:40pm:
Why go to the trouble of farming something when you can get it for far less in the wild? Of course the croc farmers always oppose croc hunting, because it is the ban on croc hunting that makes them profitable. The fact that there is a hard way of doing something has never been a valid excuse for not doing it the easy way. The fact that harvesting a particular animal has an added advantage of increasing public safety is a reason in favour of the harvest, not against it. It is not an excuse, it is an additional reason.

Do you need an excuse to catch fish? Why should catching crocs be any different?


So should we cull Great White Sharks FD (at the moment they are totally protected for conservation reasons) ? They still eat people quite regularly.

I hardly think that farming crocs is more trouble than a wild harvest. You have the crocs close to your infrastrucure for harvesting and distribution. As they are bred in captivity there is little in the way of sustainability issues.

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #5 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 8:47pm
 
Calls for a crocodile cull in north Queensland is nothing new and nothing ever comes out of it. I reckon they should concentrate on eradicating cane toads.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #6 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 9:26pm
 
So should we cull Great White Sharks FD (at the moment they are totally protected for conservation reasons) ?

I doubt there is a commerical market for them in the same way there is for crocs, or that they have recovered as much. Remember, the primary reason for it is to harvest the resource, not to protect people.

They still eat people quite regularly.

How 'regularly'?

I hardly think that farming crocs is more trouble than a wild harvest. You have the crocs close to your infrastrucure for harvesting and distribution. As they are bred in captivity there is little in the way of sustainability issues.

Perhaps you should let the market decide that. After all we are not communists.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #7 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:14am
 
Why don't they leave the poor creatures alone.  Whenever a shark or a crododile eats someone the vigilantes get out there and slaughter everything that moves.

If people are stupid enough to go fishing, camping or swimming around known infested waters - it's not the crododiles fault if they get mauled or eaten.

We've said for years that we have too many koalas and we need a cull - now they're endangered.  The same can probably be said of crododiles.  

Quote:
Do you need an excuse to catch fish? Why should catching crocs be any different?  


Can you really compare the two FD?  It might be a little different spearfishing and wrestling a large crododile underwater compared to wrestling a harmless little groper or a turtle.  Yes sure let the hunters have a go - and if they lose a few limbs in the process - tough luck.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #8 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:38am
 
We've said for years that we have too many koalas and we need a cull - now they're endangered.

Can you back that up mantra?

Can you really compare the two FD?  It might be a little different spearfishing and wrestling a large crododile underwater compared to wrestling a harmless little groper or a turtle.

Turtle? Groper?

I am not suggesting people spear them mantra.

Yes sure let the hunters have a go - and if they lose a few limbs in the process - tough luck.

Fine by me.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #9 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:00am
 
FD - if crocs were hunted with guns - it's a hit and miss operation.  One bullet unless it's aimed strategically won't kill it - so if hunters are allowed to have their way - there will be plenty of crocodiles dying slowly and in agony from misplaced bullets. 

It's common knowledge now that koalas are endangered although the Australian government only labels them as threatened - contrary to expert opinion.  A majority of them have some contagious disease which they can't cure in adults and have very little success curing in babies.  This is wiping out entire populations.  Their habitats are almost destroyed and road kill and predators are finishing them off when disease and starvation doesn't.

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #10 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:37am
 
mantra wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:00am:
FD - if crocs were hunted with guns - it's a hit and miss operation.  One bullet unless it's aimed strategically won't kill it - so if hunters are allowed to have their way - there will be plenty of crocodiles dying slowly and in agony from misplaced bullets.  

It's common knowledge now that koalas are endangered although the Australian government only labels them as threatened - contrary to expert opinion.  A majority of them have some contagious disease which they can't cure in adults and have very little success curing in babies.  This is wiping out entire populations.  Their habitats are almost destroyed and road kill and predators are finishing them off when disease and starvation doesn't.


A spear on a croc would not be effective they would need to be shot /trapped..if a prof shooter misses one occasionally (a fatal hit I mean) Thats par for the course and well -sh*t happens-unfortunatley.

I think we as a society have it a bit out of kilter when we allow killers to flourish at he expense of the safety of pple..we are entitled to protect ourselves ( like any other creature in the wild does) if we are threatened by menace. We cant holiday on land ( crocs) and we cant go for a dip/spot of fishing(Pointers)..sanity needs to prevail.

I have been camping on the Roper River for Barra etc (Nt)a croc infested river..we were fearful that crocs would take us from our tents ( it happens- and they dont knock either )- my then partner not long after went croc hunting expedtion alone and slept in the branches of trees for safety sake..(he penned romantic letters from that altitude -inspiration? : =)

White pointers out in these waters are now taking swimmers and fisherman too "regulary" for my liking ( a boat was swamped by a huge wave whilst fishermen were shark fishing -for gummies not pointers- its believed they may have been taken by sharks - only the skipper was found and survived- the 2 young deckies? never found)..the protection of Parks and Wildlife has seen them now grow to dangerous numbers...and they are HUNGRY.

Fisherman now fish with great unease at the size of these monsters..seeing them several times a week circling their boats.
They are the size of my medium sized wagon ( thats big)

Koalas and killer sharks/crocs

.How is there a correlation?
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« Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:42am by oceanz »  

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:43am
 
FD - if crocs were hunted with guns - it's a hit and miss operation.  One bullet unless it's aimed strategically won't kill it - so if hunters are allowed to have their way - there will be plenty of crocodiles dying slowly and in agony from misplaced bullets.

Why would you assume that hunters will use inferior methods?

It's common knowledge now that koalas are endangered although the Australian government only labels them as threatened - contrary to expert opinion.

So they are endangered, but we need to cull them as well? Were to trying to claim that the cull went too far and cased them to be endangered? And like oceans said, what does a commerical harvest of crocs have to do with a NPWS cull of koalas?
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:24am
 
The Koalas were only being used as an example as many people are under the misapprehension they exist in abundance - same as crocs.

If you go on the principle that all threatening animals to humans should be killed - we may as well wipe out almost every animal on this planet.

You hunters have got your own peculiar mindset and a bloodlust that many do not understand.

Obviously camping near croc infested waters is encroaching on their territory - but then again why should the threat of an attack interfere with the recreation of humans who might want a swim.

Go grab your guns and get 'em.  You could even have them stuffed and mounted on your walls - great conversation piece.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #13 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:28am
 
The Koalas were only being used as an example as many people are under the misapprehension they exist in abundance - same as crocs.

So you think all the scientists and wildlife people who organised the cull were wrong? How does the prevalence or otherwise of koalas tell you how abundant crocs are? Why is it a relevant example? Are you merely trying to demonstrate the possibility that a species can become threatened?

If you go on the principle that all threatening animals to humans should be killed

That is not the principle I am going on. I don't go fishing or eat kangaroos because I feel threatened by them.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #14 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:39am
 
Quote:
If you go on the principle that all threatening animals to humans should be killed 


That was in response to Oceans post. 

FD - do you only ever hunt specifically for food? 

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #15 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:49am
 
I used to kill cane toads, but I don't see too many around these days.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:52am
 
Quote:
Are you merely trying to demonstrate the possibility that a species can become threatened?


Yes - no-one knows for certain how many crocodiles there are.  

We have legally promoted hunting in Australia and there is no guarantee that hunting is only restricted to feral animals.  I wonder how many crocs are shot just for fun.

The advertising is sickening - " a hunters paradise" - where they can shoot at anything that moves.

Australia’s Northern Territory, or the Top End as we locals call it, is some 1.4 million square kilometres in size. Or to put it another way, Italy, France & Spain all rolled into one. The NT is a HUNTERS’ and fishermens’ PARADISE, supporting vast populations of feral animals including WILD BOAR or pigs, WATER BUFFALO, scrub bulls & BANTENG CATTLE, plus huge numbers of MAGPIE GEESE & ducks. The Territory is a visually stunning landscape, VAST & sparsely populated, and for a large part still WILD & untouched. Flood plains, billabongs, big rivers, thundering waterfalls, rock escarpments, rain forest, prolific birdlife, brilliant sunsets, aboriginal culture & some of the most interesting & DIVERSE bunch of people you will EVER meet. This makes the Northern Territory a MUST visit destination at least a once in YOUR lifetime.

NB - Sorry - I won't post on the hunting board anymore - I know it's interfering with the flow of posts from those who enjoy this "sport.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 11:01am
 
Yes - no-one knows for certain how many crocodiles there are. 

That's OK. We don't know for certain how many kangaroos there are either. Luckily we have ways of managing uncertainty. Also, I am sure everyone here is aware of the possibility that species can become endangered. There is no need to point it out.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 3:55pm
 
I think someone said in the NT alone the numbers had grown to over 70,000. Thats a lot of crocs.That doesnt even touch upon numbers in QLD.

When Buffullo get out of hand they are culled (have nice sets of horns) as are any other species that damage the environment/lack habitat and food or threaten human life, altho the latter seems to be a rarity...as if human life is not important.
Culling is done mainly for humane purposes in the end and to protect our soils and vegetation etc. most of the damage is done by introduced species.

We are but one species that live on the planet and some of us think we are above animals..but we are animals..anything we do or dont do is legit in that context..
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« Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:10pm by oceanz »  

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #19 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:56pm
 
I think you can kill a crock with a spear or an arrow in the eye and I believe you should do it if you hunt for adrenalin rush. Never had done crocks myself though I've seen some when lived in NQ, NT and PNG bush for months at a time, was too tired from work and it was easier to take care of where you camp and when you go to river.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #20 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:09pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:56pm:
I think you can kill a crock with a spear or an arrow in the eye and I believe you should do it if you hunt for adrenalin rush. Never had done crocks myself though I've seen some when lived in NQ, NT and PNG bush for months at a time, was too tired from work and it was easier to take care of where you camp and when you go to river.


Yes tallowood..pple just naturally camp by water..its is easier. One shouldnt be afraid of being eaten by a croc just because they need water for camping and general puposes.

I wouldnt attempt to spear a croc thru the eye..not unless I was tired of living.

Its easier just to nuke/spork him ha ha.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #21 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:21pm
 
Australia has recently had exposure internationally with our crocodiles in regards to the late Steve Irwin.

What if say, instead of commercial harvesting being brought back in, there were authorised hunting guides who you had to go through to hunt crocodiles legally, and they had to be tagged/a tag had to be presented in order to get it stuffed, skinned, exported, butchered etc etc? Say each tag cost $500 (or even $1000 or more, depending on how many were allowed to be killed each year) straight to the state/territory government plus guide fees which the guide kept for themselves. There would also be a yearly limit on how many could be taken so as not to wipe them out.

I imagine a lot of American hunters would head out this way, and it would keep the farmers happy as it would not likely encroach on their business as the cost of tagging the animals would be much greater than the cost of raising them just for meat/skins. Then again I don't know what it costs to raise a croc but I hear they aren't frequent eaters.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #22 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:41pm
 
oceanz wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:09pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:56pm:
I think you can kill a crock with a spear or an arrow in the eye and I believe you should do it if you hunt for adrenalin rush. Never had done crocks myself though I've seen some when lived in NQ, NT and PNG bush for months at a time, was too tired from work and it was easier to take care of where you camp and when you go to river.


Yes tallowood..pple just naturally camp by water..its is easier. One shouldnt be afraid of being eaten by a croc just because they need water for camping and general puposes.

I wouldnt attempt to spear a croc thru the eye..not unless I was tired of living.

Its easier just to nuke/spork him ha ha.



People who camp near river in tropics are not smart and not only because of crocks but also much worth... mosquitoes and all other life forms who need water to drink.
They really should receive posthumous Darwinian evolutionary award instead of keep breeding, OR they have to learn quick-smart otherwise we all get unreal public liability insurance rates and I hate that more then killer crocks, snakes, spiders, mosquitoes and white ticks.



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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #23 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:19pm
 
Australia has recently had exposure internationally with our crocodiles in regards to the late Steve Irwin.

As opposed to previously when we were represented by people like Wassaname Dundee?

What if say, instead of commercial harvesting being brought back in, there were authorised hunting guides who you had to go through to hunt crocodiles legally, and they had to be tagged/a tag had to be presented in order to get it stuffed, skinned, exported, butchered etc etc?

Yes, that can be very lucrative, though it is not mutally exclusive with other forms of harvest. In fact it contributes to a lot of conservation efforts in Africa. Farmers don't tend to take too kindly to tigers eating their cows, but if a European 'great white hunter' is willing to pay 50 years salary to shoot one, then the more lions the better. Plus it saves them the trouble of hunting down the lions themselves.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #24 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:08pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:41pm:
oceanz wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 8:09pm:
tallowood wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 7:56pm:
I think you can kill a crock with a spear or an arrow in the eye and I believe you should do it if you hunt for adrenalin rush. Never had done crocks myself though I've seen some when lived in NQ, NT and PNG bush for months at a time, was too tired from work and it was easier to take care of where you camp and when you go to river.


Yes tallowood..pple just naturally camp by water..its is easier. One shouldnt be afraid of being eaten by a croc just because they need water for camping and general puposes.

I wouldnt attempt to spear a croc thru the eye..not unless I was tired of living.

Its easier just to nuke/spork him ha ha.



People who camp near river in tropics are not smart and not only because of crocks but also much worth... mosquitoes and all other life forms who need water to drink.
They really should receive posthumous Darwinian evolutionary award instead of keep breeding, OR they have to learn quick-smart otherwise we all get unreal public liability insurance rates and I hate that more then killer crocks, snakes, spiders, mosquitoes and white ticks.





Camping in the tropics fullstop sucks Tallo..I hate those nasty little sandflies the most..the ones that live in the mangroves..They bring me up in the worst bumps..and itch like crazy.

Camped by the sea in Cooktown QLD for 6 months ( fishing the Barrier Reef ...working holiday) and I have to say I was miserable most of the time..

The only moments of light and frivolity was watching the nudists with really bad bodies ( I didnt do the whole "nuddy "thing..my togs was sufficiently fine..Im a bit shy) going about their business and the same who drank warm mango wine and gave themselves a wicked dose of the "runs"..no no I lie ..those same pple on magic mushroms were a sight to behold. Grin
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #25 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 6:59pm
 
oceanz wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:08pm:
...
Camping in the tropics fullstop sucks Tallo..I hate those nasty little sandflies the most..the ones that live in the mangroves..They bring me up in the worst bumps..and itch like crazy.

Camped by the sea in Cooktown QLD for 6 months ( fishing the Barrier Reef ...working holiday) and I have to say I was miserable most of the time..

The only moments of light and frivolity was watching the nudists with really bad bodies ( I didnt do the whole "nuddy "thing..my togs was sufficiently fine..Im a bit shy) going about their business and the same who drank warm mango wine and gave themselves a wicked dose of the "runs"..no no I lie ..those same pple on magic mushroms were a sight to behold. Grin


Unfortunately those nasty baggers (not nudists) are prolific not only in tropics but all over different climatic zones. I suffered from them in NSW, QLD and even in polar tundra in summer time. They keep nudists at bay for sure but I'd rather have nudists then sand flies.

Talking about mangoes, once I was silly enough to camp under a mango tree in York Peninsula. All night I was bombarded by first by bits of mangoes knocked down by bats and later by dead bats dropped down by a hunting python.   Angry

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Crocs on Fraser Island, Hervey Bay
Reply #26 - Dec 27th, 2008 at 8:18am
 
Signs erected at Great Sandy Straits and Fraser Island

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24844431-952,00.html

HOLIDAYMAKERS flocking to Fraser Island and the Great Sandy Strait are facing a bigger threat than bluebottle stings and sunburn.

They are for the first time also being officially warned to watch out for crocodiles.

The Environmental Protection Agency last month erected the warning signs after a 3.4m crocodile was reportedly sighted at Deep Creek on Fraser Island and a 2.5m crocodile was seen at Baffle Creek, about 150km north of Hervey Bay.

Long-time Maaroom resident and fisherman Stan Pappin  said he often saw saltwater crocs near his home, which overlooks Maaroom Creek inlet on the strait just south of Maryborough.

"Three months ago there were three crocodiles just here in the creek," he said. "The small ones were about 12ft (4m) and the large one about 16ft. They come and go. You just learn to live with them. When they're here you just don't go into the water.

"But they don't stay here all the time, they just come here to chase the barramundi."

An EPA spokesman said public safety was the agency's priority in managing crocodiles.

Warning signs are posted at Deep Creek and Fig Tree Creek, on the western shore of Fraser island, as well as at the barge departure points at Urangan, River Heads and Inskip Point.

"The nearest reported sighting (of a crocodile) has been at Fig Tree Creek on the west coast of Fraser Island," the EPA spokesman said. Information sheets also have been distributed to regional tourism organisations and commercial tour operators and other key stakeholders for Fraser Island, asking them to encourage people to exercise caution.

The EPA's official "Croc Watch" tally reports the most recent sighting of a crocodile on the Fraser Coast as being on December 2 on a small island in Kauri Creek on the western side of the Strait. This followed unconfirmed sightings of a 3m crocodile in the Mary River near Queens Park at Maryborough on November 5, a crocodile seen behind a boat near Bridge Creek on Fraser Island's western side on November 1-2 and a 1.5m-2m croc spotted on a creek at Dundowran Beach near Hervey Bay in March-April this year.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #27 - Apr 26th, 2009 at 7:28pm
 
Looks like this is back on the agenda. The 7.30 report is doing a story too, nt sure if it has already aired.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article6069596.ece

A spate of crocodile attacks in Australia's Top End has led to a proposal for the widespread culling of the animals and a “croc-free zone” to be put in place around Darwin.

The draft plan by the Northern Territory Environment Minister will include a no-tolerance zone in which saltwater crocodiles found within a 30-mile radius of Darwin would be killed or captured.

The proposal was made after the death of Briony Goodsell, 11, who was taken by a crocodile while swimming in a swamp near her home in Lambells Lagoon, a rural town 30 miles east of Darwin last month.

Her death, which was the third crocodile fatality in Australia since September, has caused concern about the number of large saltwater crocodiles in populated areas.

There are croc-free zones in the Darwin city area and Darwin Harbour but the plan is to include rural areas in which crocodile populations are on the rise. The crocodiles would be caught and either killed for skin and meat production or captured and sent to farms. The plan proposes an increase in community awareness about living near crocodiles, more traps and annual surveys of the Adelaide River, which runs for 100 miles through the Northern Territory and is home to thousands of crocodiles.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2008/s2543106.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2008/s2543439.htm
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #28 - Apr 27th, 2009 at 11:38pm
 
Swimming in a swamp is silly. Next they will want to stop natural selection.

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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #29 - Apr 28th, 2009 at 7:31pm
 
A mate of mine was telling me that the aborigines up there are fairly casual about it. They have plenty of kids who run free, and the community doesn't get too worked up if the odd one dies. Though I don't know if this particular girl was aboriginal.
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Re:  Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #30 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 2:38pm
 
mantra wrote on Oct 3rd, 2008 at 9:00am:
FD - if crocs were hunted with guns - it's a hit and miss operation.  One bullet unless it's aimed strategically won't kill it - so if hunters are allowed to have their way - there will be plenty of crocodiles dying slowly and in agony from misplaced bullets.  



First of all that hardly happen now ie "plenty of [animals] dying slowly and in agony from misplaced bullets."

But yes it can happen. That's why most hunters train before hunting as well as taking responsible shots on game. It is a combination of using an adequate cartridge/correct projectile and marksmanship. It is not as difficult as you are emotionally suggesting for those that are enthuseists.

I very much doubt that there will ever be open slather on shooting crocs again, it is far more likely that there will be a tagged system where tags are purchased or drawn by lotto that allow the taking of a croc. As already suggested, this will generally be used for guided hunts and gain tourism dollars.

This allows the animal to still be protected but also managed. It has the added side effect that crocs become more people shy, except in National Parks where they would not be hunted, thus keeping the photo tourists happy.

There are multiple points on most animals that are useful for taking down game and with a rifle it is essential that those points are able to be reached by the bullet and impart all/maximum amount of energy and therefore shock to the animal. Generally bullets kill by shock.

Different locations on the animal would be targeted depending on the type of trophy being sort. Headshots if you want the skin and shouldershots if you are after a headmount. If you wound an animal the guide will usually try to finish off the animal if you fail to and every animal wounded should be tracked to the point of complete failure. Only unethical shooters (and there are some) do not make every effort to dispatch game properly. I have spent hours, sometimes to the point of being dangerous doing just that on the very rare occasions that an animal has not gone down immediately. Very very rare. A wounded animal still uses up the tag so the hunter needs to make sure or they have wasted probably $1000's and still going home empty handed.

Mantra said
Quote:
The advertising is sickening - " a hunters paradise" - where they can shoot at anything that moves.
Australia’s Northern Territory, or the Top End as we locals call it, is some 1.4 million square kilometres in size. Or to put it another way, Italy, France & Spain all rolled into one. The NT is a HUNTERS’ and fishermens’ PARADISE, supporting vast populations of feral animals including WILD BOAR or pigs, WATER BUFFALO, scrub bulls & BANTENG CATTLE, plus huge numbers of MAGPIE GEESE & ducks.


Not sure where it says anything that moves? Most species mentioned are introduced and feral, the birds are largely migratory, but I personally don't shoot these because I consider them native AS WELL as the fact that I don't eat them. But I would have no qualms about shooting a kangaroo or emu if they were abundant AND I ate them and it was legal.

Mantra said Quote:
NB - Sorry - I won't post on the hunting board anymore - I know it's interfering with the flow of posts from those who enjoy this "sport.


"I" would not insist on that but maybe that's for the best if you don't want to learn something. 

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Re: Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #31 - May 25th, 2013 at 5:33pm
 
The journalist sounds a bit confused. I think "relocated to a crocodile farm" is a euphemism for a trip to the local butcher.

Angler spent night with crocodile under his bed after catching it while out fishing on his birthday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330434/Angler-spent-night-crocodile-bed-catching-fishing-birthday.html

...

    Ashley Sala spent his 45th birthday fishing for Asian seabass near Cairns
    He thought he'd finally caught a one-metre 'barra' as he reeled in his catch
    But when Sala got his catch to the surface, he discovered a five-foot croc
    Not wanting the crocodile to die, he took it home where it stayed overnight
    Animal rescue services untangled the crocodile from the line the next day

It may sound like a scene out of the 1980s hit comedy film Crocodile Dundee, but an Australian fisherman had a real-life fight with this five-foot-long reptile.

Ashley Sala became so enraged when he discovered yet another crocodile on the end of his fishing line that he tackled the animal before taking it home and spending the night with it sleeping below his bunk bed.

Mr Sala had been spending his 45th birthday fishing for Asian seabass, barramundi, at Ninds Creek, in the river mouth at Innisfail, approximately 55 miles south of Cairns, when he thought he'd caught a fish.

But when he went to reel his catch in, he discovered a five-foot-long crocodile at the end of his line.

He told cairns.com: 'I threw my line out to catch a barra for my birthday and I ended up catching a croc.

'I thought I'd caught my one-metre barra. I was so happy, I was yahooing and carrying on.

'Twenty minutes later after fighting it I brought it to the surface and when the moon came out from behind the clouds I realised it was a croc tangled up in my fishing line.'
Fisherman Ashley Sala and Cassowary Coast Councillor Mark Nolan with the crocodile
Crocodile Dundee: Ashley Sala watched the reptile overnight until animal rescue services could attend to it in the morning

Real-life Crocodile Dundee: Ashley Sala, pictured with Cassowary Coast Councillor Mark Nolan, watched the reptile overnight until animal rescue services could attend to it in the morning

Mr Sala said he didn't want the crocodile to die in the netting but was also still fed up with the reptiles stealing his bait and stalking him at local fishing haunts.

So Mr Sala placed the crocodile in his car to drive to his local councillor's to complain about the overpopulation of reptiles in the area.

Unfortunately Cassowary Coast councillor, Mark Nolan, who also holds the council's crocodile management portfolio, was asleep so Mr Sala was left with no choice but to bunk down with the animal for the night until it could be taken to a wildlife park.

His girlfriend was far from impressed by their unexpected house guest and made the pair sleep in an empty 'donga' – cabin – at his family's caravan park.
To the rescue: Queensland Parks and Wildlife Services officers arrive to remove a the crocodile from the tangled up fishing lines

Mr Sala explained: 'I sat on the top bunk and had a few birthday beers by myself and watched the croc on the floor until I fell asleep.'

Councillor Mark Nolan praised Mr Sala's care of the animal and compared him to Crocodile Dundee actor Paul Hogan.

He said: 'Paul Hogan's got nothing on Ashley Sala. Paul Hogan never slept with a saltie. Ashley has, and I witnessed it.'

He added that the reptile was untangled by Queensland Parks and Wildlife Services officers the next day and it has now been relocated to a crocodile farm.
The reptile has been relocated to a crocodile farm where it can no longer get trapped in fisherman's netting

The reptile has been relocated to a crocodile farm where it can no longer get trapped in fisherman's netting
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Re: Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #32 - Aug 1st, 2013 at 10:42pm
 
Rangers hunt in Kauri Creek for third crocodile

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/rangers-hunt-kauri-creek-third-crocodile/1964651/

RANGERS are on the hunt for a third crocodile on the Fraser Coast after a croc reportedly bumped into a boat at a popular fishing and camping spot.

Department of Environment and Heritage Protection's Geoff Clare said rangers were searching Kauri Creek in the Tuan State Forest after receiving a report from a fisherman last week.

"There have been a number of reported sightings in Kauri Creek and the adjacent Tin Can Bay in recent years," Mr Clare, the executive director of nature conservation services, said.

"Temporary recent sighting signs have been erected at the location as a precaution."

Recreational fisherman Craig Johnson said he spoke to the rangers while fishing in Kauri Creek on Friday.

"The croc had been seen by a fisherman three days earlier down from the (Log Dump) boat ramp," he said.

"They said the croc had bumped into his boat."

Mr Johnson, a Munna Creek resident, said they told him the croc was in the range of three to four metres long.

"I've never seen one here before but it's the perfect environment for them," he said.

If rangers are able to find the reptile it will be the third confirmed crocodile living on the Fraser Coast.

Earlier this month rangers confirmed there were two living in the Mary River near Beaver Rock.
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Re: Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #33 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:21am
 
Original 'Mary Crocins' crocodile captured

http://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2014/11/12/4127176.htm

...

This crocodile was the 'salty' that was first spotted in the river in 2012, which came to be known as 'Mary Crocins'.

Andrew Powell, Minister for Environment and Heritage Protection, says it was caught by rangers doing overnight patrols in two new crocodile boats at Mungar.

"This gentleman's had it all to himself pretty much, the entire length of the Mary River and all of its fish has been at its mercy and therefore it's been very well fed," Mr Powell said.

"It's been very hard to lure into a trap and attract through the normal baits that we provided.

"What the rangers did overnight is they actually used both boats and were successful in harpooning the crocodile and pulling him in through the boat ramp and removing it from the system."

The crocodile will be relocated to a crocodile farm near Rockhampton and potentially added to their breeding program.

"It's holiday in the Mary River is over, it's off to a croc farm, but I do need to remind locals there is one croc remaining in the system and we'll be looking to track that one down as quickly as possible," Mr Powell said.

"I just pass on my congratulations to our rangers, the frontline officers out there doing this work. It's not easy work, it's odd hours and it's often very dangerous and I commend them for what they've done."

The crocodiles have been targeted for removal as they are south of Boyne River near Gladstone, the legislated border of crocodile territory.

Mr Powells says with one crocodile still in the river system it is important for people to be vigilant when in and near the water to minimise their risk and be 'croc-safe'.

"That is, to not throw away fish scraps around boat ramps, not be fishing [wading] in the water, stay well away from the edge and certainly don't take children or pets down by the water," he said.

"Certainly with the warmer temperatures the crocs are being more active, with the boats in the system we'll be able to target that last remaining crocodile and look to remove it as quickly as possible."
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Re: Expert opposes croc cull after suspected attack
Reply #34 - Nov 18th, 2014 at 2:01am
 
Once again, there are a number of people's opinions on this Topic that are 'right' and justified.

Ironic that on Landline today - they had a segment on Australian Tourism: After the success of Hoges (mostly in the USA) and the flop of Bingle - they now have 'Chefs' promoting Australia as a place of 'good food' ...as their new weapon of choice.
(gee: with all the 'cooking shows' on TV, I didn't see that one coming  Roll Eyes)
But the truth of the matter is - that the stats have shown that Tourism in Australia spikes upwards when Australians are killed and attacked by 'Wild Nature' (Crocs n' Sharks, etc). People from Overseas, don't come here to visit Australians (don't blame them sometimes  Tongue) - but to see 'Wild Killer Australia' !!!

The Australian 'Hunter'?
Gee - where do you start>?  Huh

The Australian Hunter is much like his fellow 'Greenie' in Camo - the Military, very 'Political' in his servitude. But that is the 'Western' way - where 'Politics' is the First Rule(r).
...so we have a bunch of Politicians marching around with Guns and shooting Animals from a safe and anonymous position (much like Trolls do on the Net).

But in Truth, there are many 'right' answers to the Issue.
In South Africa: Hunters have 'Farmed' near extinct species back into hundreds of thousands, for many things - but mostly 'controlled hunting' experiences.
Zimbabwe has all but 'devoured' their native Fauna and are now 'Poaching' into South Africa.
South African Rangers now 'Hunt' Poachers!  Cheesy Wonder how many 'Poacher' heads are mounted over fireplaces?  Grin

Cull Crocodiles?
I agree with FreeDiver in that the 'Croc-Farmers' are only protecting their livelihood and not all of these 'Farms' around the world are 'good for the animals', maybe in quantity - but definitely not in 'quality' care !! Angry

I believe that the Culling of Crocs and any Species (like Great White Sharks) can be a CONSTANT act, but one that needs to be conducted by a very seriously set up 'Conservational Panel' of Experts that are also HUNTERS !!!  Angry
Australian Hunters need to be the Wolves or Sharks that keep an Eco-system 'Healthy' by targeting the weak, the sick, the potentially 'plague' proportionate !
What the Australian and Global 'Market' reaps from this, must NEVER encroach and poach upon a non-sustainable figure of -50% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I don't think Australian Hunters have got what it takes to step away from the Politics and towards their fellow Greenies - the Conservationists.
This is a Global problem as well !!  Tongue

Scientists have introduced PACU Piranha into the Sepik River in PNG  Shocked 18 years ago. The reason being, the fish species only eat 'Nuts' and other 'Flora' - but now, with the 'Niche' open to them, the PACU are eating other species and even attacking Humans, much like traditional Piranha do! Crocodile numbers have plummeted (baby crocs are consumed) and the ecosystem is just another on this planet - having been stuffed up!

If you know there are muggers down an alleyway in New York...
...would you walk down there, just because you felt the right to have a short cut!  Roll Eyes
...like you feel you have the right to camp at 'any' river-side or swim at 'any' beach.
No - you either walk down that alleyway with Police protection or 'evolve' your situation.

I totally support Humanity's need to have CONQUERED the domination of Animals over our existence.
But we have risen above that now - and yet, there are still many out there that believe that we must go further and DESTROY all the Animals ...FOREVER !!
The CHALLENGE now is to go beyond now and develop ways for us to exist and compete fairly with the Animals without killing for fear of being killed.

I personally think the Crocs & Sharks are 'culling' the idiots from our Society, to be honest.  Wink   Cheesy

If people think the behaviour of Conservationists in all things 'against' have been EXTREME, then its a justified 'backlash' to the EXTREME annihilation of species around the world.  Tongue



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